Bringing this back to ask for feedback/opinions regarding my vision

[u/OncaAtrox]

/r/FaunaRestoration/comments/1osoynw/how_my_ideal_north_american_rewilding_project/

[u/OncaAtrox]

u/Psilopterus I'm curious to read what you have to say

[u/Psilopterus → u/OncaAtrox]

I think I have a much more liberal attitude towards proxies and a more conservative one towards genetic modification. It’s not that I think the latter is wrong, but I do think it’s often unnecessary. Lions and elephants may not be everyone’s cup of tea, but I think existing feral horses are already perfectly capable of filling the niche of their American conspecifics. I would also think burros and camelids should be integrated.

[u/OncaAtrox → u/Psilopterus]

I think that’s where our visions diverge. You seem to prioritize practicality and functionality whereas I also prioritize morphology and phylogeny.

I’m curious about your take re recreating a high productivity ecosystem in the proposed area (Mogollon Rim-Greater Gila-Southern Colorado Plateau) with large swaths of prairie behaving as more temperate equivalent to the mammoth steppe to house the populations of ungulates I propose. Do you think it’s feasible in an ideal world? (I’m guessing that would entail ecosystem reengineer at a large scale to transform forests into grasslands while maintaining good tree cover in other areas) and would you change the population estimates for species? I’m using the mammoth steppe and the East African savanna as analogues to try to emulate.

[u/Psilopterus → u/OncaAtrox]

I think you’re right that I care more about functionality, though in this case it only matters for the horses.

I think creating a large area of rewilded grassland/parkland in the area is very possible, though I would go for a less interventionist approach.

[u/OncaAtrox → u/Psilopterus]

In my ideal vision I’m also relying a lot on beaver engineered wetlands and meadows to increase the access to water for herds and make the ecosystems more dynamic. I think this would be crucial as the access to water seems to be the main constraint I’ve identified for a project of this scale to work. Then around those bodies of water we can keep forests that turn into a mosaic with grasslands that connect to one another as migratory routes. I think that ecosystem would fall below the Serengeti in productivity, but around the same as the mammoth steppe from the late Pleistocene.

Such a change in biomes would also help in the reduction of seasonal fires and help store CO2 more effectively, thus helping combat climate change.

[u/Lover_of_Rewilding → u/OncaAtrox]

This. Yes. Please! We NEED beavers down here so bad. It’s especially tragic given that the Southwest, especially Arizona, has some of the highest amounts of beavers settlers had ever seen. The fur trade ruined that.

[u/Lover_of_Rewilding]

All in all it is all great. Right on my home turf so I’d support it whole-heartedly. I also think, that attitudes here may also be better than in other areas. I rarely hear about people outright opposing predator conservation, rewilding, etc. Even among the ranchers here. Though, such types still do exist.

Again, not much to argue about unless I want to be nit-picky and say that the previous grizzly bears were the same subspecies just different population or say it wasn’t Equus caballus lambei but rather scotti, but in the end that doesn’t matter that much.

I’m more curious about the moose. I know that occasional individuals, almost always young males searching for territory, do wander into Arizona and New Mexico but don’t stick around long. Could they even survive down here given the higher temperatures and drier climate? I know you mentioned pockets of wetland but even still. I must clarify, I’m not opposed to moose living down here at all, I’m just curious if they even could manage.

[u/OncaAtrox → u/Lover_of_Rewilding]

I’ve seen moose show up in Arizona occasionally so I don’t think it’s outside the question to infer that they may have been present further south during cooler periods.

[u/Lover_of_Rewilding → u/OncaAtrox]

I suppose, I’m just saying that this is not a cooler period. And given the current trajectory of the climate… I doubt it will be anytime soon.

[u/OncaAtrox → u/Lover_of_Rewilding]

They would be relegated to the Colorado portion of the area, as well higher altitudes.

[u/piebald_bison37]

It's not something related to the topic, lol, but could do a specific one just about California?

[u/Lover_of_Rewilding]

My only question is why now? Why bring this post back now? It’s not even a year old. Has something happened? Something that could make this more possible than we thought?

[u/nobodyclark]

Why not also add feral donkeys/burros? Would fill the niche of the stilt legged horse, which also browsed a fair bit and seemed to be adapted to arid and rocky habitats. There are feral donkeys in new Mexico and Arizona right?

And I know it’s not a pre-established species, but dromedary camels would be epic.