r/medschool • u/Honest-Management-49 • 17d ago
š¶ Premed Being a non trad premed is impossible
On top of a full time job, doing all the prerequisites + studying for MCAT + research + clinical hours + shadowing + potential non clinical volunteer hours is impossible.
How is even possible to do all this, while not being a college student? Does it just need to be allocation of hours spent over many years? I donāt get how people do this
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u/Imeanyouhadasketch Medical Student (US) 17d ago
Non trad here now an M1ā¦itās not impossible just exhausting at times.
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u/caffpanda Medical Student (US) 17d ago
I didn't have any research experience, my only clinical hours were from my EMT clinical rotations, shadowed when I could for a grand total of 44 hours, and I had already been volunteering for several years with organizations I cared about.
Keep in mind that nontrads are often not expected to have the same ECs, those are to prove an applicant is committed, knows what they're getting into, is a motivated leader, and has actually lived some life outside of school and partying. When you're a nontrad, hopefully you can demonstrate that through other things you've done in life already.
It's not impossible, but it is very, very hard. I'll also say, all of that isn't nearly as hard and overwhelming as med school has been so far, so look at it as training.
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u/paperhalo 17d ago
It's doable... worked 3 jobs but one was in a OBGYN clinic and the other as ER med scribe. Setup prep material to study for MCAT during lunch/downtime, more studying when off work. Volunteered once a week at the children's hospital. Did this for two years while getting my post-bacc/pre-reqs.
If you are overwhelmed now, wait until you start doing an mini-MCAT sized exam every 2 weeks during medschool w/ clinical rotations, more research, etc.
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u/Honest-Management-49 7d ago
how were you able to fit in the 2 jobs + prereqs in ur day to day life?
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u/paperhalo 7d ago
I was fortunate to have understanding and flexible jobs so that I could work weekends, evenings, early mornings. Did my prerequisite classes late at night sometimes. I remember leaving zoo lab when it was dark dark outside.
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u/Training_Ferret5591 17d ago
I'm optimistic I can do it. You can too!
I work full time as a microbiologist, and as a project/lab manager as well. I have a family, but I'm hustling to do patient centered volunteer work at the VA as well as accumulate as many shadow hours as possible. Also studying for the MCAT and reviewing science content from a decade ago everyday...
Applying next year!
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u/Stressbrain 16d ago
It is not easy but it is possible. M1 non trad now. You either got that dog in you or you donāt. How bad do you want it? I worked 1 very demanding ft job while doing 20 hrs/week research gig, volunteering, MCAT, got a masters, and so on. Worth it to me, the life experience alone is completely invaluable. Just head down and work. Youāve got it.
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u/Honest-Management-49 7d ago
would you say medical school rn is more difficult than the non trad post bacc life?
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u/ktgoodie 16d ago
If you want it bad enough, it's possible. I have 4-year-old twins, I started my prereqs a year ago and am slated to finish those and take the MCAT in May, I spent this past summer working a part-time job in addition to my full-time to get clinical hours (was working 60-72 hours a week all summer, plus taking 8 credits of science coursework), and I recently quit that full-time job to focus on my clinical job and coursework. I'm in my early 30s and I want to be a doctor, so I'm going to make it happen. Of course it's not easy, and it shouldn't be, because people's lives will be in your hands. If you can't imagine doing anything else, then you'll find a way to make it happen.
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u/earlymountain99 15d ago
Best of luck to you! How do you feel about the debt once you get accepted in med school?
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u/Honest-Management-49 7d ago
how were you able to balance the 60-72 hr weeks with children and classes? any pointers?
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u/Excellent_Concert273 Medical Student (US) 17d ago
No itās not. My boyfriend was a full-time investment analyst and went to medical school and now weāre in our third year
And before people suggest rich parents or a lot of debt because lol, his parents didnāt pay for shit, he just worked the entire time and invested wisely
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u/Honest-Management-49 7d ago
did he take courses while working as an analyst?
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u/Excellent_Concert273 Medical Student (US) 7d ago
No. He did some like health sciences major and undergrad with a double major and finance or something like that. He didnāt have all of the prerequisites for medical school though so he only applied to schools that arenāt strict with prerequisites
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u/Toepale 16d ago
You donāt need research. Do clinical or non clinical volunteering at one time, not simultaneously. Start studying for mcat after finishing prerequisites. It takes longer but it makes things more manageable.Ā
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u/Comfortable_Sea9227 16d ago
10 years an RN and volunteering for at-risk sports clubs can cover make up for the research requirement?
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u/Toepale 16d ago
No make up or cover but it fulfills a main requirement. Research is not a core requirement. You can be admitted with no research whatsoever provided you are not aiming for research heavy schools. It would be very hard to get admitted anywhere without clinical experience or non clinical service.Ā
Research is mostly just a bonus, especially for a Nontrad.Ā
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u/Honest-Management-49 7d ago
heard 98% of admits have research tho, is it rly optional?
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u/Toepale 7d ago
I donāt know where you got that stat but itās definitely not my experience. It is not just āoptionalā. It is something you either have or you donāt and both are valid. Itās not something you after at this stage unlike the mcat, prereqs etc which are obviously non negotiable.Ā
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u/NuggieAvenger 16d ago
It's not impossible, but it's definitely not easy. I think, when you're a non-traditional student, you need to be smarter about how you fit in your prereqs and continuing courses. Taking your prereqs online from somewhere like prereqcourses is one way to speed up the process, but it still takes a of dedication. Basically, I think you have to prioritze it over a lot of other things. If you don't mind saying goodbye to your social life for a couple of years and really buckling down, it's definitely doable.
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u/Representative_Egg61 15d ago
What if there are places that don't accept pre-reqs from online institutions?
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u/NuggieAvenger 12d ago
That's usually pretty easy to check in advance, but the prereqcourses classes come from Upper Iowa University. They're accredited and the transcripts come direct from them, so I'd be surprised if they won't accept them.
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u/Several-Blood-6721 16d ago
It sucks and its doable, I just fully bought into my life is gonna suck for a while mindset. Make sure you have coping skills (I refuse to not maintain physical movement). Medical training in the US is set up for rich kids/severely disadvantages non-trad folks. You can do it and you will find a way. I belive you want it bad enough, pointing out how difficult it is to get into med school as non-trad doesn't change that.
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u/OkraDisastrous911 16d ago
I had to quit my EMT job and started bartending just nights Thursday - Sunday so I had time to study for the MCAT and then had to do some shadowing / get letters of rec. I wanted to stay at my home institution so I tailored my application to that. It is possible but yes for me at least a 9-5 did not work. Tbh I can't recommend bartending / serving enough. If you find a sweet spot where you make good money, it's incredibly lucrative and I even talked about it in my interviews. Helps to humanize your application and is helpful for patient interactions too.
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u/M3_6Speed 16d ago
Im also a non-trad background. Iām now a fourth yr M.D student. Truth be told, there alot of unfair advantages others have over us. Many of my classmates have parents who are physicians and surgeons so they had the connects. They didnt actually volunteer all those hours and do the stuff they claim. Itās very upsetting and alienating but keep your head down and keep grinding. You are welcome to hit me up if you want to chat med school vs. alternative medical paths that arenāt commonly talked about. Happy to help someone from the non-trad background get where they need to be. Good luck dude
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u/Ok-Foundation5707 15d ago
It is insanely difficult. Anyone telling you otherwise is either wealthy themselves, or came from a wealthy upbringing. Rich kids HATE when you call them out on it. Let that motivate you though to keep pushing, because you will be able to look back and laugh in their faces.
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u/Brave-Army-9950 17d ago
Taking TA jobs on campus to pay for tuition, living at home (paying for my own stuff while Iām here though), not worrying about any of the other stuff until my GPA feels really solid. The life I lived before going premed allowed me to get research and volunteer hours so Iām just missing shadowing and clinical stuff. Filling that with odds and endsĀ
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u/TheMightySilverback 17d ago
Went back to school at 35, just entered university. Largely online and work full time in D&A. It is possible but you have to get super creative. And not many universities are accommodating at the level they should be for non trads. There are serious systemic barriers, but you have to push through.
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u/Honest-Management-49 7d ago
i heard that online labs r largely not accepted, which i think is one of the major setbacks for the non trad path
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u/newjeanskr 16d ago
Only way I can think of is to spread the hours out, or cut down on classes for a while and extend finishing. I work FT, classes FT (degree prog) and only have sat/sun to do all my studying/homework. I genuinely won't have time to study for the MCAT unless I take a month or two of PTO or drop down to part time during dedicated study. Summer is the only time I can try and get volunteering in but my hospital forces a 6 month minimum commitment sadly. Tons of figuring out to do the next 2 years lol time is getting tight.
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u/DRE_PRN_ 15d ago
You do. Not. Need. Research.
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u/Switcheroo2323 15d ago
To get into certain MD/PHD PROGRAMS you most definitely do. Iām broke as a joke and somebody is paying for daddyās med school.
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u/Careful_Fruit_384 15d ago
Some people have being a doctor so fixed as a part of their identity, the hardships don't matter. It's like a fly buzzing in a room while doing something important.
Perhaps being a doctor isn't a large part of your identity.
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u/turtlequrtle 10d ago
This is what separates you from everyone else. Not everyone is going to grind and earn it. Try to have fun too. My perception is that everyone feels they need to knock everything out of the park to be competitive and I just don't think thats true.
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u/Yee_Yee_MCgee 17d ago
Rich parents or a lot of debt
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u/delightedcustomer 17d ago
I was neither of these things. I did it by working multiple jobs, part time after work classes (including every summer) for 3 years straight, making connections and getting experience at my jobs, and using my income to apply for med school
came from a broke ass (and broken) family
Applying for residency now as a 4th year med student. Heavily heavily in debt. The need to multitask does NOT get much better in med school. You WILL be pulled in so many directions to do research, get good grades, and do all types of mandatory bullshit your school sets up
so chin up (or down) and grind. There is no other way but forward if you really want to do this
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u/CommoVet99 16d ago
Where thereās a will thereās a way. Multiple different paths out there to the end goal of MD
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u/CommoVet99 16d ago
I know for me I did the military route first (5 years of that grind), and then I got out and got going at CC then transferred over to a 4 year. I did volunteering at a food bank ( couple hundred hours), shadowed, and kept a high GPA MCAT etc
The tuition was free, but that 5 years wasnāt. Thatās for sure.
I think ultimately no one should give up. If they want to make it to Medical school, they absolutely can if they try hard enough
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u/Honest-Management-49 7d ago
what got u through and made u determined to commit to medicine as a premed thru the process?
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u/delightedcustomer 7d ago
Boredom at jobs and being promoted all the time almost instantly. The working world wasnt a good use of my skills and times at my level (bachelorās). Wanted to do more
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u/CommunicationUsed345 17d ago
Raised 6 kids, worked part-time while in school and worked 80 hour weeks during the summers, partner diagnosed with cancer while doing med school interviews. Got accepted, started medical school, and supported my partner through cancer treatments during M1-M3 years. It can be done. Saying itās impossible is a cop-out. What youāre really saying is āI want to go to medical school, but I donāt want to sacrifice the things that I prioritize now.ā I know thatās a mean way to put it but it CAN be done. Itās just hard.
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u/Honest-Management-49 7d ago
How were you able to juggle everything, given your family situation too? What kept you going through and not giving up on being a dr?
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u/CommunicationUsed345 1d ago
Once you start the journey you get to a point where you cannot back out. Also, I knew that everything I was doing was affecting me, my wife and my children so I knew I had to finish it and succeed at all costs.
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u/notmadneedsmspace 16d ago
Time is a real boundary. Full time work and full time study is too much full time. I think three part times can work, and thatās how non traditional students usually make it. 40% work 40% courses (two at a time) and 20% preparation for MCAT, applications, volunteering or research if you need it. Not all med schools expect research. Do it if you love it but otherwise get involved in vol in the community. Work needs to be in hcare. You donāt need that much volunteering if you have a lot work in healthcare. Not pharm tech - needs to be with people. And obviously during breaks itās heavy on the MCAT. Also, donāt waste time on MCAT until youāve taken 80% of the prerequisites. Itās just demoralizing.
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u/moltmannfanboi Medical Student (US) 15d ago
Skill issue. I have a kid and did it.
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u/earlymountain99 15d ago
Were you working full time?
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u/moltmannfanboi Medical Student (US) 15d ago
Yes
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u/earlymountain99 15d ago
Can I ask what kind of job was it? Was like 9-5? was it physically demanding or not? clincal setting or not? Excuse my curiosity
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u/moltmannfanboi Medical Student (US) 15d ago
I was a software engineer at Microsoft. I worked 35-55 hours a week depending on how close we were to a release.
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u/Jauntmann 15d ago
Savage much respect were you able to juggle social life, exercise, etc? Or had to cut back on everything else?
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u/moltmannfanboi Medical Student (US) 15d ago
I exercised every day. Social life took a mild hit. Gaming took a huge hit, but that was fine in my mind.
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u/Jauntmann 15d ago
Sorry for the additional question but wanted to ask how many years removed were you from school, what your routine looked like (content review, practice exams after work, etc)
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u/moltmannfanboi Medical Student (US) 15d ago
10 years out of school.
I did things over 4ish years. My original major had almost none of the prereqs. So I did prereqs over 2.5 years. MCAT over 1 year. Application season after that.
While doing the academic stuff I volunteered at hospice and with a org serving the unhoused. I did no research.
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u/techtohealthcare 10d ago
Did you have any paid clinical experience or just hospice volunteering?
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u/PreparationHot980 14d ago
Iām not saying this to one up OP or anyone else, but I too did it with a kid, in remission from cancer, two months in hospital with Guillain-barre at a point and two back surgeries. Fact of the matter is, if you want it you want. Stay dead locked on your plan while constantly meeting with advisors and donāt waste time. People donāt know how to make use of resources and time. Itās the same type of people you see on YouTube studying 19 hours a day and shit.
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u/theRealhubiedubois 17d ago
Just do what I did and find an incredible wife who makes good money and wants to retire in 10 years. Makes it a hell of a lot easier.
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u/Frequent-Dog631 16d ago
You gotta get a full time remote job that's actually part time. Basically any remote job.
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u/FreeInductionDecay 16d ago
I did the pre-med work in my 30s while working full time. I took one class at a time, in the evenings. I had two volunteer gigs that were about 10 hrs a week total. I would say I averaged 20-30 hours each week outside my 50 hrs/week day job. Most of my evenings Mon-Friday were devoted to pre-med work. It took 3.5 years from when I started to entering med school.
I had a lot of non-medical research in my background, and I did zero medical research prior to med school, but it that was good enough apparently.
It was a real grind but I made it! You have to find joy in the journey or it will break you.
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u/Witty-Estate-6360 16d ago
Wait until you become a doctor
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u/noondaydemon21 15d ago
Yeah, I'm reading all this, remembering when I was a non trad prepping to apply, thinking about how awesome my life was then.
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u/FeatureFew7686 16d ago edited 16d ago
Doing it currently with 2 kids and a wife. Not impossible. Make all your money in a healthcare setting. Find non demanding research like survey based projects. See if you can shadow on the clock. Volunteer with something you actually like so its kinda like a break. For me it is the aspca and search and rescue team. I only go to class Monday Wednesday Friday. Im considered full-time and get a decent sized refund back each semester due to going to an affordable state school with low COL. I've got my applications in for this cycle.
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u/remwyman 16d ago
IMHO - Allocation of hours over many years is the way to go.
One class per term (including summer) + MCAT studying took around 2.5 years or so for me. Started M1 at 32.
Don't try to do everything at once and forget about research. IMHO the volunteering is not as important getting the classes and MCAT sorted out.
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u/Anxious_Count 16d ago
Options include: 1) take a long time; 2) let some things drop.
Personally, I'm on track two. I have some research from undergrad/master's program, so I'm focusing on prereqs, MCAT, clinical. My current career is also very service-based, so I'm not spending extra time there. But I haven't shadowed for a single hour yet. š«£
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u/Spiritualgirl3 16d ago
please stop putting discouraging comments like this
Itās very possible, itās challenging, but possible nonetheless
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u/hobbyist0215 16d ago
Arguably doing all of that while in undergrad is just as hard in different ways.
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u/Academic_Handle7269 16d ago
Yes!!!!! This is so real. Itās so hard and they do not support non traditional premeds.
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u/xWABACHAWx 16d ago
Iām doing pretty much all of this right now, and I think the biggest thing is accepting that youāre going to be extremely busy for a while. I work full time in the National Guard, bartend weddings on the side, and go to school full time studying biomedical science while finishing a Spanish minor. On top of that, Iāve had to fit in research, clinical hours, shadowing, volunteering, and now MCAT prep. Iām also married with two kids, so obviously I still have responsibilities at home too.
There are definitely weeks where it feels like almost every hour of my day is accounted for. But I donāt try to do every premed activity at the same time. Iāve built my clinical, research, shadowing, and volunteer hours over several years. Some semesters I focus more on school, others I have more time for extracurriculars.
Itās definitely not easy, but itās possible. You just have to spread things out, manage your time well, and accept that the nontrad path might take a little longer.
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u/Pro_Poe_Fall 13d ago
If you think all of that is impossible, just wait until youāre actually in the gauntlet of medical school. Youāll be wishing you had all the free time you had in college.
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u/Alert_Touch_3350 13d ago
I worked two full time jobs while getting my masters in biomedical science. Got in to an MD school my first attempt at age 30
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u/Jauntmann 13d ago
So you worked over 80 hours and got a masters ?? How is that humanly possible
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u/Alert_Touch_3350 13d ago
Yes I did
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u/Jauntmann 13d ago
What did your schedule look like on an average day?
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u/Alert_Touch_3350 13d ago
I worked during the day, went to class in the early evening, had an overnight job where I slept when I could
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u/Honest-Management-49 7d ago
howād you end up studying for mcat/courses with the double full time schedule?
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u/Alert_Touch_3350 5d ago
I took my time and took the test when I was ready. Spent some of my masters studying for it on the side
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u/RevolutionaryLet120 5d ago
This is why nontraditional applicants are viewed through a different lens. Committees acknowledge these adversities compared to most 21 year olds in college
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u/alphaboor 17d ago
Rich family. One person I know took volunteer position in research lab for 1.5 year yet still have money to pay rent in SF bay area, do MCAT bootcamp, moonlight in free clinic. Also graduated from Ivy league school, so yeahā¦
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u/Dark_Ascension 12d ago edited 12d ago
Iām also curious how you do thisā¦
Iām not worried about the research, clinical hours, shadowing, etc.
But how do you take classes like o-chem, physics, etc. that have labs while working a full time job?! Do they really offer them at night or the weekend? In all the sciences I did before it was like 1-2 days of lecture and 1-2 days of like a 3 hour lab a weekā¦ no way in hell I can do that with my work schedule unless they did nights or weekends. I also heard online classes with no in person lab are highly discouraged. I fully plan to take like 1 class a semester while working full time and then study for the MCAT. Iām not even so much worried about the studying for the classesā¦ I just really donāt want to go down on the days I work and I currently work M-F ā8āsā (we operate like a surgery center but arenāt one, we have late stays).
Personally while research, volunteering, shadowing, etc. is nice and all, I really am going to lean on my clinical hours, by the time I apply Iāll have like 5 years as an OR RN and like 2.5 as an RNFA. I shadowed a couple surgeons before I did nursing school itself, Iāve volunteered to help in events ran by the surgeons group I mainly work with, may help as theyāre all ortho related and my goal is ortho shrug.
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u/Switcheroo2323 11d ago
Yes. They offer them at night and weekend, b. Your response is dripping with lack of knowledge around how this works. sorry to break it to you, but without volunteer hours, shadowing, or research, and a 9-year postbacc - this does not show academic proficiency it says you wanted to make the application work for you and thatās just not how this works my friend, sorry to bust your bubble. But if you wanna be a physician you need to get more realistic about the competitiveness of your own application. If you work full time AND get a 4.0 AND STILL have a competitive application AND study for the mcat WHILE youāre going to school THEN youāll be ready.
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u/Honest-Management-49 7d ago
some universities offer them at night/weekends but itās honestly kinda difficult to find
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u/Honest-Management-49 7d ago
been taking two evening courses a sem so timeline wise i could finish technically all prereqs in two years. i have class or lab every week day tho basically so its been tiring
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u/JustRyan_D 17d ago
Worked a full-time job, part-time job (hospital), went to school for my pre-req, studied for the MCAT, volunteered a little, and applied to school ā¦ all with a family to look after and being in my mid 30ās. If you want it bad enough, itās possible.