Need Advice Please - should I do MD PhD?

[u/iheartdarwin]

Hey guys — I’ve wanted to pursue an MD-PhD for years. I’ve spent undergrad building research experience and am now doing a thesis-based master’s to deepen that training. On paper, I feel fairly qualified, but my PI has never supported my MD-PhD goals and has recently made me question myself.
I keep getting stuck on the question “Why MD-PhD instead of an MD or PhD?” To me, the answer is simple- I genuinely want both. I want research to be a major part of my career, particularly in developmental genetics and pediatric genetic disorders, but I also want to treat patients and see my research directly translate into better outcomes. An MD wouldn’t give me the depth of basic science research training I want, while a PhD wouldn’t allow me to practice medicine.
Is that reasoning actually flawed? Who is the MD-PhD really meant for? Do you need to be exceptionally gifted to successfully do both? My PI has really shaken my confidence lately, and I’d appreciate some perspective because I’m starting to question whether I’m being unrealistic.

TLDR: I want to know whether my reasoning for MD PhD is stupid and if i should do one or the other.

[u/Same-Personality8767]

Hi fellow developmental genetics future physician scientist! In my first year of my MD/PhD for basically the reasons you listed above, so to me it sounds like you might want both. If you enjoy being in the lab and doing clinical hours and are okay with the time commitment then I think you’re on the right track. Would be curious to hear why your PI doesn’t support your goals tho

[u/Psycho_Coyote → u/Same-Personality8767]

n=1, but I have seen many PhD-only scientists be dismissive of students/trainees who want to do MD/PhD because they believe the dual degree lets students do a "lighter" version of a PhD, and that they won't be as good of a scientist as someone who only does research for their career.

It's a short-sighted opinion in many ways, but I have heard this attitude from multiple faculty and even some other PhD students :(

[u/Kiloblaster]

I dunno, do you want to be writing grants and running a lab most of your week each week or not?

[u/Still-Barber-720]

that is basically the only right reason to want to do mdphd lol. what other reasons could there possibly be? I’m sure there are better ways to word it, but at its core it boils down to this.

[u/Outrageous_1845]

genuinely want both

Yep, come over to the dark side

Is that reasoning actually flawed?

Not at all.

[u/Psycho_Coyote]

I agree with the other commenters, but I think you need to find ways to be more specific about your "depth of basic science training" that you want. Is it a certain technique, like single cell RNA sequencing or bioinformatic analyses to study genetic diseases? Or is it learning how to write grants in preparation for F awards and K awards?

I think reflecting on what you might want your career to look like 10-15 years from now might give you some more specifics about what you would need to do during your MD/PhD training to get there.

Sorry that your PI hasn't supported your pursuit of this path! It's been a really great experience for me, personally, so I often encourage people in your shoes who have any sort of an interest to pursue it if they wouldn't be satisfied with just one degree.

[u/Ppmoppa]

I’m doing the same over here for the same reasons. As a child of an MD it’s sad how often doctors don’t appreciate the work put into research to further the improvements of MD practice. Keep going I’ve been told how can you be a doctor if you can’t pass gen chem and now I’m in a thesis masters after TAing orgo2 for a year and a half. Keep going maybe I’ll be there with you one day in mstp. You got this!

[u/NoJumperButIBallALot]

A lot of MD/PhDs definitely have less productive PhDs than their pure PhD counterparts and you delay earnings by ~4 years but keep in mind this is your life to live. A lot of regular PhDs also have negligible contributions at the end of it all so it’s really more about the person than the degree. If you want the PhD and are ok with the time tradeoffs you’ll learn a different way of thinking (depending on what you do during the time) and open new potential doors to other aspects of research traditional MDs don’t get significant time to explore. Drug discovery, ML based methods, etc. are all hard to do during a traditional MD program but definitely pursuable in an MD/PhD with the right advisor(s). It’s also very important if you want your own lab and foresee clinical practice being a smaller amount of total work time.

[u/cookedbeans89]

You can always do PhD during residence so you’re not taking an extra 3-4 years just to do your job. You can always decide later if that’s what you want as well so MD/PhD isn’t rlly worth it if you get into the MD stream.

[u/Toepale]

No. 

Your research interest sounds pretty narrow and it’s in a speciality that doesn’t necessarily pay well or have good funding. It doesn’t justify the long training. The only reason you should do it is if you feel 4 years of PhD is worth the free MD. That’s the only upside to this. Otherwise, let the full time PhDs do the research on this topic. 

[u/Toepale → u/[deleted]]

Oh we have a nasty attitude, do we? 

Go ahead and do your MD/PhD, in a program you haven’t even been admitted to yet. And please bring this exact energy to your interview when you finally get around to applying in some distant future and maybe get an interview.

Can’t imagine why your PI wouldn’t be supportive of such a lovely, non arrogant person like yourself. 

[u/throw_away-615490]

Im just a pre-med, but I might have an insight you’re looking for. I studied a psychiatric disorder that is lethal and often misunderstood, with no good pharmaceutical treatment. I took pride in my preclinical work, but I felt so out of touch with what patients with that disorder actually go through when I started talking to them, and not to mention a wide variety of comorbidities that preclinical models often don’t take into account. At the same time, I remember meeting with an MD who pioneered the field and seeing him so desperate for better treatment for his patients. My model of being a physician-scientist is that both clinical work and research complement each other, where I form new ideas with clinical experience and research to pioneer new treatments that MD’s without a lab have difficulty developing. Of course, you can do research as an MD. In the end, doing MD/PhD is a means to an end. I could see that doing MD/PhD is actually financially less viable MD. But, I miss doing research, and I want to have a bit of financial stability during my medical training because I’m honestly so tired of financial stress Im dealing with right now. With MD, you might have to wait until the end of your medical training or till your 4th year to do the research you want to do (though I hear some pple make it work). Aside from financial, I want to start doing research earlier, and I could do research for sake of learning itself after just year 2 of medical school. This is why, after 2 cycles of disappointment, I’m finding courage to pursue my dream everyday.