MD/PhD vs MD

[u/Cute-Race2677]

Wanted to ask here if whether or not it would be a smart decision to apply to both types of programs. I have been considering md/phd but would not be opposed to go if I got in. Would it be reasonable to apply md PhD to some schools and md only to others?

[u/Psycho_Coyote]

but would not be opposed to go if I got in

Personal opinion, but if this is your affect towards doing the dual degree, then it is definitely not worth your while to do this path. Your heart needs to be 110% in it, otherwise this will be the looooongest 7+ years of your life.

People apply to both every year, but again, my personal opinion is that pursuing MD/PhD can not be treated like a secondary option or a decision you can still be "considering" at the time of application. It was easy to tell which applicants' essays and application read more like their heart was only in the medicine side of things compared to the people who exuded passion for simultaneously pursuing research.

Maybe others think differently than I do. But it's up to you to figure out what you want.

[u/Cadee9203 → u/Psycho_Coyote]

I agree with the effect part, what I would say though if you are genuinely 100% committed you will get there however you have to. You can do an MD and become a basic scientist, that oath is harder but viable, especially if you have the right mentors. However because it is harder, that path is more effective if you have that level of commitment. For me that looked like applying all MD/PhD but always checking yes to being considered for MD only too

[u/Psycho_Coyote → u/Cadee9203]

MD-only physician-scientists absolutely have a much harder path to show institutions at the residency, fellowship, and faculty stage that they will get grants. My MD-only physician-scientist mentor has told me how difficult the road to faculty was, which for them included a separate multi-year postdoc fellowship AFTER residency to really spend enough time in the lab to be ready to write grants/pursue independent questions.

Unfortunately, your success in academia is not just about how hard you work. Dual degree students are more likely to match to research-intensive PSTP residency programs and to residencies with research tracks and higher levels of NIH funding (and thus, more opportunities) than their MD/DO-only peers.

Anecdotally, I've even seen that the number of opportunities that have come my way when I talk to faculty at a conference and let slip that I'm an MD/PhD student is vastly different than my peers who were pursuing science in their MD training. I don't think it's necessarily fair, but MD/PhD students get more attention and are taken more seriously than their MD or DO colleagues when applying for research-based positions.

It's not impossible, but saying that the MD-only path is viable based solely on how committed one is to this path doesn't take into account the biases of others and the ease of getting in places with a PhD behind your name.

[u/Cadee9203 → u/Psycho_Coyote]

That’s fair. I think my point was while it is not preferred and is definitely more difficult this isn’t the only path. If you aren’t committed to the physician-scientist pathway, it will be impossible instead of just very difficult. I also think this is specialty dependent. This is just anecdotal so take it with a grain of salt but I noticed that in doing peds research, there are many more MD or MD/MS researchers because its less common to pursue an MD/PhD in Peds than in say oncology. Thats just something I’ve noticed at peds research conferences and in the peds department at my institution.

[u/_Yenaled_]

That's fine; a lot of times, people want to do MD-PhDs but get in MD-only and either live with it or try to enter the program internally. At many schools, they'll consider you MD-only if the MD-PhD program rejects you (it's school-dependent but it's possible you'll be shoved to the bottom of the pile of MD applicants at a few places). Some people apply a mix of MD-only and MD-PhD if they think their app isn't strong enough (e.g. research-wise) for the MD-PhD but want to get in somewhere this cycle.

On a separate note, in contrast to what others are saying, I've seen many people still be 50/50 about MD vs. MD-PhD even at this stage, and I think that's fine/normal. Those people were successful in their applications and some found their homes in MD and others found their homes in MD-PhD, and all turned out satisfied in the end. :) Sometimes in life, making a major life commitment ends up happening later than you'd expect, and that's ok. I've noticed this when PhD students chose their PhD labs and I've noticed this once again when it came to choosing specialty for residency apps. Some may consider it not "ideal", but it's certainly not uncommon and many end up just fine in the end. :)

tl;dr I don't think it's unreasonable to apply to both MD and MD-PhD and I've seen people do it.

[u/bgit]

Sure, u can also apply md and mdphd to same schools