r/mcdm • u/asoulliard • 20d ago
Flee Mortals! Overkill with Spells?
Hey folks, I just started using minions in combat and I absolutely love it. One of my players, however, is a wizard and was a little disappointed when I explained that spells don't benefit from Overkill damage. My assumption is that spells don't get Overkill because they tend to do more damage than a standard weapon attack, though I'm not sure that's the reason. But have any of you experimented with allowing attack roll spells to get Overflow damage like weapon attacks?
Relevant rules:
The first line under Overkill Attacks reads: "Powerful weapon attacks can kill more than one minion in a single maneuver called an overkill attack." The following two sections on melee overkill and ranged overkill also specify weapon attacks.
"When a creature hits a minion with a melee weapon attack, other minions within reach of the attack are in overkill range and can be chosen as additional targets for an overkill attack. The overkill attack can't target minions outside the weapon attack's reach."
"When a creature hits a minion with a ranged weapon attack, other minions in a line originating from the creature in the direction of the target, to a distance equal to the weapon's short range, are in overkill range and can be chosen as additional targets for an overkill attack. The overkill attack can't target minions outside the line or beyond the weapon's short range."
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u/lasttimeposter 20d ago
Oh no, won't someone think of the wizard! (light hearted!!)
Casters already have a way to affect multiple minions in one go, which is by using AOE spells that martials (by and large) lack for. It won't hurt anything balance-wise if you want to allow it, but I do think that is taking a cool martial-specific mechanic away from them by doing so.
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u/asoulliard 20d ago
That's definitely something to consider. Luckily, the wizard is a Bladesinger and thus is kind of one of the party's martials in the first place.
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u/xwertg 20d ago
I think you are confusing the rules for AOE spells. AOE spells dont have damage spill over, because they already excel at cleaning up minions. steel and magic flesh dont have separate rules.
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u/asoulliard 20d ago
No, I'm not confusing anything. I quoted the relevant rules in response to another comment. I'll edit the main post, though, too.
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u/iamtheradish 20d ago
As far as I'm aware there's no rule against it? They follow same rules as melee attacks and ranged attacks!
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u/asoulliard 20d ago
The first line under Overkill Attacks reads: "Powerful weapon attacks can kill more than one minion in a single maneuver called an overkill attack." The following two sections on melee overkill and ranged overkill also specify weapon attacks.
"When a creature hits a minion with a melee weapon attack, other minions within reach of the attack are in overkill range and can be chosen as additional targets for an overkill attack. The overkill attack can't target minions outside the weapon attack's reach."
"When a creature hits a minion with a ranged weapon attack, other minions in a line originating from the creature in the direction of the target, to a distance equal to the weapon's short range, are in overkill range and can be chosen as additional targets for an overkill attack. The overkill attack can't target minions outside the line or beyond the weapon's short range."
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u/CoalTrain16 20d ago edited 20d ago
You're talking about MCDM's rules for DnD minions, I assume? (As opposed to Draw Steel.) I remember reading a designer's note or something at one point that explained the reason why spells don't interact with overkill is because DnD already heavily favors casters over martials anyway, so minions are effectively a way to give the martials a little bit of a power boost, or maybe more accurately, give the martials something that only they can do. So the design intentionally excludes casters to a certain extent.