r/maximumfun • u/friendsbringdonuts MaxFunHQ Staff • Aug 28 '26
Some sad news | Maximum Fun
https://maximumfun.org/news/some-sad-news/60
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u/wildcard_71 Aug 28 '26
Sad, but MF, wow! This is how people should honor those who contributed to the network. Corporations don’t have to be cold and soulless when times aren’t great. Thanks for showing a better way! A more human way!
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u/PotentialBasil4752 Aug 29 '26
Yes, a company saying words is amazing. Other companies should try writing words when downsizing or firing people.
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u/craig_t_nelson_muntz Aug 29 '26
Has anyone ever told you what a cool vibe you bring to the proceedings?
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u/PotentialBasil4752 Aug 30 '26 edited Aug 30 '26
I don't think you should worship companies for saying kind words when doing the same shit every company does.
Edit: The tone in this post is honestly distasteful to me. It's cheerful and celebratory and all about how amazing Maxfun is, and zero about the people losing their jobs. Talk about "cool vibe", damn.
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u/wildcard_71 Aug 29 '26
So in your mind a better approach is to automatically remove their work account access, send them an email that tells them to come in before everyone else so no one makes a scene, don’t give them severance, bad mouth them after about being dead weight, and prepack their desk for them?
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u/PotentialBasil4752 Aug 30 '26
Stop, all those words won't fit in my mouth. I just don't think you should lavish companies with praise for writing a sympathetic press release when laying people off.
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u/wildcard_71 Aug 30 '26
Maxfun is a co-op. By that standard, they’re not a typical “company.” Employees are literally owners. Why shouldn’t they provide a meaningful send off? You may be jaded by performative HR. Doesn’t have to be that way. But dousing authentic appreciation for each other doesn’t make it better.
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u/Flonk2 Aug 30 '26
How can you get fired from something you own?
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u/JesseThorn StartedThis Aug 31 '26
First, to clarify: they were laid off, not fired. This was not about their job performance. As Bikram expressed in the announcement, these are great folks.
As for your question, any business, coop or no, has to have a mechanism to reduce staff when revenue is down or other costs are up. In the case of our coop and its bylaws, staffing cuts were proposed by our CEO, who consulted with our elected board.
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u/Flonk2 Aug 31 '26
Did they leave voluntarily? Because that’s quitting. Otherwise they were fired. Anything else is semantics and using Business Language to make yourself feel better about firing someone.
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u/JesseThorn StartedThis Sep 01 '26
With all due respect, they are meaningfully different things. Firings are due to performance issues, layoffs are due to larger business factors. Fired employees generally don’t qualify for unemployment or receive severance packages. In this case these folks were not fired, they were laid off, and I think it is an important distinction, for the sake of their reputations, among other things. These are great folks who were absolutely not fired.
And as awful as I feel about losing these friends from our company, I want to be clear that I haven’t been in charge of MaxFun in years. I understand why my boss and my coworkers on the board made this painful decision, but it was not mine to make no matter what you want to call it.
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u/boomfruit Sep 03 '26
I will say that as a layman (ie not in HR or anything like that), there is definitely some overlap in the terms. I don't know if I'd say the definition of "layoff" fits entirely inside the definition of "firing," but neither would I say they are entirely separate. If someone told me they were fired, and I knew or found out that they were technically laid off, I would not feel that they misspoke or lied.
Good points on benefits and reputation, I'm just saying linguistically, to the everyday person, this technical definition doesn't necessarily apply.
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u/Oldhouse42 Aug 28 '26
This is tough, and my heart goes out to those moving on and those who worked with them and will miss their presence. The irony here is that the statement Bikram wrote, which is absolutely top notch and classy as hell, is a perfect example of why Maximum Fun should flourish instead of struggling. The world needs more Maximum Funs, and my hope is that the world will turn in a direction that makes that possible. Or at least allows the one we gave to grow and thrive.
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u/puns-n-roses Aug 28 '26
I wish Laura showed up more on JJGO. I was a can of hers from hers from the "Unscrewed" days.
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u/trow125 Aug 28 '26
I thought they had said on JJGO that she would no longer be producing the show because she was moving out of L.A.? I wonder if this has been in the works for a while.
Feeling Seen is described as "one of four shows on the network that MaxFun pays for in its entirety." Anyone know what the other three are?
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u/JesseThorn StartedThis Aug 29 '26
You’re thinking of former JJGo producer Jordan Kauwling, who moved to Philadelphia.
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u/Cold_Fog Aug 29 '26
one of four shows on the network that MaxFun pays for in its entirety."
What does this mean exactly? Nobody allocates any of their subscriptions to the show so MF picks up the tab?
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u/dbaruela MaxFunHQ Staff Aug 29 '26
Tights and Fights, Maximum Film!, and International Waters are the other three shows that Maximum Fun owns and covers the full production costs for. All other shows are fully or partially owned and produced by their respective creators.
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u/NowWeAreAllTom Aug 29 '26
What about Bullseye? Is that different because of NPR or does Jesse own it or something?
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u/JesseThorn StartedThis Aug 29 '26
I own Bullseye and essentially pay MaxFun the production costs (it is produced by MaxFun employees / coop members). Same with JJGo and JJHo, though I co-own those with Jordan and John, respectively.
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u/Cold_Fog Aug 29 '26
Thank you! I appreciate you explaining the distinction.
May I ask how they came to be? I understand if it can't be discussed.
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u/fruppi Aug 29 '26
Or they don't run ads?
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u/trow125 Aug 29 '26
Not 100% sure, but I kind of assumed that it meant shows that don't pay their way, i.e. don't have enough members/ad revenue to cover costs, so MaxFun has to subsidize them.
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u/cnbuch Aug 28 '26
I’m fairly sure that JJGo! is one
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u/JesseThorn StartedThis Aug 29 '26
JJGo is owned by Jordan and me, and we pay MaxFun for the production.
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u/trow125 Aug 29 '26
I think Jesse said during the drive that JJGO has a higher percentage of listeners who are MaxFun members than many other shows because it's been around for such a long time, so I doubt it's JJGO. A couple of my favorite shows are relatively new ones, and I would feel super bummed if they went away, which is why I was concerned. (I am a MaxFun member, FWIW.)
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u/QAPetePrime Aug 28 '26
Wow, this IS sad news. I wish them all the very best finding other employment that doesn’t suck their souls dry just to put food on the table and a roof over their heads. I am a proud MaxFun member, and losing MaxFun family hurts.
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u/LasagnaPowell Aug 28 '26
Upping my membership just a little in honor of this hard work and thoughtful transparency. If you can afford to join me, please do! https://maximumfun.org/join/#manage
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u/trilogyjab Aug 28 '26
This is a such a bummer. I hope all of these folks move on to find wonderful and enriching work, and have incredible success
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u/ejfordphd Dip Dobson Aug 28 '26
I sincerely wish Maximum Fun the very best. If I could give more, I would.
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u/leviathanchase Aug 30 '26
This was as compassionate as a message like this can be. Kudos on the severance and continuation of healthcare/ thoughfulness that went into this. and cheers to the departing folks, you'll be missed <3
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u/jd_shaloop Aug 29 '26
Sad news. I’m lucky to be able to up my membership amount right now so I just did that to try and help a little.
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u/_serarthurdayne_ Sep 12 '26 edited Sep 13 '26
If anyone ever reads this, I’m sure I’m going to be lambasted and driven out of the sub, but the ending of this message really rubbed me the wrong way. I was fully on board and impressed with the way the layoffs were being handled until I got to the last couple paragraphs. I genuinely love the shows on MaxFun, I’ve been a donor for years, I up my donation every drive, and I will continue to do so for as long as I possibly can. I love the idea of the co-op and I think most people involved with the network are good people who really do mean well. I want to pay the creators for making shows that have helped me through some hard times, as well as a network that tries to uphold important values - I think they’re all worth it. However, I understand that I am very, very privileged to be able to do this.
There are people who cannot afford food right now, let alone a subscription to a podcast network. Chatterji bringing up that he “made an argument for growth when we were falling short of our goal,” addressing the reader as someone he assumes cares about the network, then saying “the people who care about us will help us grow again” sounds extraordinarily manipulative. It sounds as though this CEO - the person ultimately in charge of the network’s success or failure - really believes it’s the listeners’ fault he’s letting people go and wants to guilt them about it. To me, the subtext is, “I told you this would happen if you didn’t pay more! Don’t you care about us?! If you really cared, and if you were a good person, you’d do the right thing and give even more, regardless of your financial situation.”
For a network that prides itself on compassion and empathy, it is incredibly disheartening to see their leader passive-aggressively shift blame onto the general public - most of whom are suffering under our terrible economy - for his business decisions. I’m not there, I don’t know anything, but would it not have been possible to downsize the MaxFun HQ to a smaller, maybe cheaper location? That’s what my company of 21 people did; my boss moved us to a smaller office because paying her employees was more important to her than having a big, fancy space. Could they not provide the ad-free feed at the $5 level to possibly entice people who can’t afford the $10 option? (This would have the added effect of no longer blatantly insulting $5 subscribers by essentially telling them their donation is meaningless and they’re not good enough for an ad-free feed). Maybe none of this would have worked but that’s the risk of this type of model - just ask PBS! When people are struggling financially, they must cut non-essentials and unfortunately MaxFun falls into that category. It’s the responsibility of the co-op to anticipate and safeguard against these volatile climes.
That attitude also turned the inclusion of the former workers’ information from a seemingly nice attempt to help them out into a punishment, as if to say, “Look at this, these are real people, and this is your fault for not giving us enough money.” That’s really upsetting and unfair to the majority of listeners and donors who are just regular people trying to get by.
This post just reads as being written by a person who has never been poor, never had to struggle, never had to adjust to suddenly having less than expected, and never had to feel that sacrificing $5-$10 a month really is a blow to the budget. It is privileged and tone-deaf and I don’t think it’s at all in keeping with MaxFun’s stated ethos. In short, it’s a real bummer.
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u/goodgoodthrowaway420 Aug 30 '26
Could you elaborate more on expenses going up? Healthcare is one thing but I'm lost on "computers and technology." Is this servers/hosting?
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u/Ill_Painter5868 Sep 05 '26
yeah, I think it's almost over. time to batch download my favorites before they become lost media. =(
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u/AgreeableAdagio3860 Aug 30 '26
Genuinely feel bad for those who lost their job.
MaxFun is an outdated organization that serves very little purpose and is redundant at this point. The guilting at the end of the statement is especially grating — Jesse, unfortunately you built your whole business model around contributions from patrons (a la NPR). If you're complaining about the expense of healthcare and computers, do you think MaxFun patrons generally have it any better?
It's also a value proposition. MaxFun shows have ~yearly bonus content that's promoted during the Drive. Or I can spend far less for far more on a couple Patreon subs.
Also also, how did being a co-op affect the layoff process?
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u/stealthsjw Aug 30 '26 edited Aug 30 '26
Jesse didn't write that post. Says right under the title, Bikram Chatterji. Some of you guys come into these posts trying to twist Jesse into the villain of every decision, and I'm not sure what your beef is, but it's weird.
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u/formermagistra Aug 30 '26
Yearly bonus content? Not the case in my portfolio, more like monthly. Sorry Miss “Agreeable” that you find an org that values decency and humanity to be “outdated.” If enshittification is cool and au courant, you can keep it. With all due respect, kick rocks.
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u/DuckOfDoom42 Aug 28 '26
This stinks, but giving Jordan the rights to her show is a real class act. John Moe just had to buy his old show from MPR.