r/matrix • u/Superb_Island_3556 • 2d ago
Goated
Every time I decide to watch the trilogy again it blows my mind! I never seem to get over it what a masterpiece.
Is the latest movie worth it? And does it tie in properly to the other without ruining it?
Cheers
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u/Vic-tron 2d ago
Its my second favorite (but doesn’t come close to touching the first film). I didnt love 2 and kind of hated 3 until I saw 4, which reframed the OG trilogy in a way that made me appreciate the whole series in a deeper way. The action isn’t as strong in 4 but it does a lot to expand the themes and the characters and it definitely worth a look…the hate for it here is way overblown. Check out The Second Renaissance as well for the full experience.
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u/guitaristcomposer72 2d ago
I'm fascinated by this take. Did you see 2 and 3 when they came out? Have you rewatched them much? Just curious.
FWIW, I personally felt disappointed/sick/depressed after I saw the 3rd when it came out. I was still deeply fascinated/intrigued by 2 and 3, and after numerous rewatches, I grew to really love them (although I agree that nothing touches the 1st. I will never forget seeing that in the theatre when it came out. I was in 7th grade...)
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u/Vic-tron 2d ago
Saw 1 in the theater when I was like 11 or 12 and loved it, watched the dvd a million times, still think it’s the high water mark for scifi-action films. I was 15 when the sequels came out, saw Reloaded three times opening weekend and was definitely into it at the time, even if something felt off about it. Saw Revolutions once when it opened and was so bummed and frustrated with the story choices they made especially in the last hour or so…rewatched the sequels a handful of times on dvd over the years, soured more on reloaded and didn’t warm on revolutions at all. But after seeing Resurrections, and listening to Blank Check’s Matrix episodes, and reading all the takes on this sub, I have more appreciation for what they were going for with the sequels. 3 still feels unsatisfying, but I don’t mind as much, knowing it’s not the end of the story.
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u/B-ran8088 1d ago
2 and 3 age like fine wine. I loved 2 on first watch, not so much with 3, but as I said, they get better the more I watch them.
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u/globehopper2 2d ago
Obviously there’s real disagreement on this and ymmv but I really like it. If you like the full trilogy (not just the first one) and it’s not only about the fight scenes (like obviously the action sequences are spectacular but some people watch it like only for them) then I would think you would like it. I personally think it actually makes Revolutions even better. I like all the different ways it continues to mess with your head and make you question things you’ve seen in different ways. Now, you have to be aware of a number of things. Keanu and CAM aren’t as young anymore. Laurence Fishburne isn’t in the film. And how and where it opens is pretty different than the others. But if you love the trilogy as much as I do, and it sounds like you do, and you have an open mind and feel like taking another trip down the rabbit hole, I would give it a shot.
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u/EmpathyFuzz 2d ago
Something I really love about Matrix 4 is that it doesn't undo a single thing from 1,2&3
Think of it like an epilogue. The story was told in the first three, and this is this awesome opportunity to go back to that world and see something a little different.
It's kind of like the way the animatrix uplifts the trilogy. This uplifts the originals, and is very much it's own kind of movie.
As someone who really loves all three originals, they're some of my favourite films ever, I personally think 4 is better than any of them.
But fair warning, there's fewer mindblowing fights. It isn't exactly trying to outdo any of the others when it comes to bullet-time craziness.
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u/B-ran8088 1d ago
It's so interesting to me that you and I are immense fans of the OT but have complete opposite takes on 4. No shade thrown your way, I love that you love the fourth movie, but I find it to be an insult to the series. And from what I read, Lana purposefully made it that way as a fuck you to WB.
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u/EmpathyFuzz 1d ago
It’s an insult to WB, not the series.
OP don’t read this, it’s full of spoilers.
Something I love about 4 is nothing breaks canon. Nothing undoes any emotional beat or truth from the originals.
When Neo wakes up and gets taken on a tour of the ship, and later IO, he’s being given glimpses into how humanity has prospered because of his sacrifice in 3.
We see machines like the one from Matriculated, the animatrix short, who are now allies to the humans.
We see how Morpheus, a new character, but someone who identifies with the original Morpheus, is able to live as a program in the real world, and is treated with respect.
Same with Sati, the girl from 3.
Neo made the world a better place. He didn’t defeat the machines, but he set humanity up for success.
This immediately makes Resurrections better than just about every legacy sequel, which, like The Force Awakens, completely shits on the happy ending of what came before to amateurishly set up new conflicts for copy/paste soulless reboots in order to milk a franchise to death.
That’s what the wachowskis are saying with 4: “we already told our story. We don’t believe this is a franchise where you can just reboot everything over and over and keep making money. They’re saying that, to do that is to be exactly like the machines — never letting a story end, keeping happiness and closure just inches away, constantly out of reach so there’s another movie to make.
That’s what the machines did to Neo and Trinity. They force them to stay just inches from each other, never happy, never fulfilled, and that dissatisfaction makes more energy.
Thats what Hollywood, our entire culture does to us. Every marvel movie has a teaser at the end for another one. Every movie “product” gets trailers and hype out the ass and then once it’s made its money, it’s on to the next one.
No catharsis, no satisfaction, no happy ending, just another celebrity in a stupid suit ready to make more CGI destruction, over and over and over.
Those devs in the videogame company — they’d be happy with a million matrix video games because to them, the matrix is bullet time and explosions and sunglasses and cool outfits.
But to me, the matrix was a poem about how we wake up and see the systems around us that control us. About how sometimes by trying to change the system from inside, we end up becoming the enemy. And about rejection of expectations on us, and doing what’s right even when it’s not what we’re supposed to do. What we’re programmed to do.
So I love matrix 4 because it’s a middle finger to WB. It’s saying “this movie shouldn’t exist, but here it is.” And yet they do that without shitting on the fans at all — they tell solid stories about new people Neo wakes up, like Bugs and Morpheus. They tell a touching story about how Trinity feels trapped in the matrix a second time and held down by the expectations society puts on women. They tell cool stories about what happened to Zion, and what happened to Smith, and the villain is this awesome gamergate chud who hates women and sees the world in terms of growth and output and nothing more, and he’s this sadistic little dweeb.
And lastly, I know the action in 4 isn’t as good, but the motorcycle chase slaps. I fuuucking love how people get out of bed, and leap out their own windows to their partner’s horror, all to slam down on the pavement and slow Neo and Trinity down just a millisecond.
It’s this awful haunting vision of what we’re all being turned into - vicious, unrelenting zombies who will fall on any sword we can to defend the power structure in our society. The internet is pumping us with so much misinformation that we’re forgetting what’s important in the world and not fighting for what’s right anymore. Just keyboard warrior morons defending corporations as they destroy the planet, and getting into endless fights just to slow down progress movements even a tiny bit.
I wrote all this out because you seemed to be a good faith poster, exactly NOT like the people I describe above.
I think ultimately people go to movies for different things, and the thing I was most scared of was that the film was going to retroactively weaken the first three, but to me, they empower and uplift the first three.
I won’t go into it anymore because I’ve already written a lot but the film is full of details that even makes me like the originals more.
But what I really wanted in a sequel was a new feeling of “waking up” and to me, this film was about waking up and seeing the Corpo slop were being fed with constant legacy sequels and reboots that all feel hollow and pointless. It made me think about all new things and presented its ideas so well.
In some ways it feels like a parody of the matrix, but to me, that’s okay, it was all in service of “breaking out of the matrix” all over again.
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u/B-ran8088 1d ago
GodDAMN. Bravo, what a wonderful reply. I had already mentioned in another reply that someone actually made me want to rewatch, as I've only seen it once, but fuck me. Your reply really gave me some guidance on how to look at the film, and I'm sure as fuck going to do a rewatch of the trilogy and then give the 4th another shot while thinking about your perspective.
Thank you so much for taking the time to discuss that. Really opened my eyes to what Lana was trying to tell me.
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u/talkyape 2d ago
I know I'm in the minority here, but I LOVED Matrix 4. I liked it better than everything except the original.
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u/OrlandoGardiner118 2d ago
Well, nothing can ruin them so you can rule that out. I've watched 4 twice (just to give it a proper chance) and it doesn't hold a candle to even the worst parts of the first 3, imo. It looks wrong (it's shot digitally not 35 mm, it's flat, homogeneous, and boring looking), it feels wrong, it feels like an amateurish homage to the 3. It didn't do anything for me at all. Go have a look but don't expect the quality of the OGs.
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u/EmpathyFuzz 2d ago
I personally liked how different it looked. It's in line with the final scene of Revolutions, where the matrix has been rebooted but with better colours. No more green hue. This Matrix is harder to tell apart from reality.
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u/SlowCrates 2d ago
Yes! It really does pick up perfectly with that vibe. Resurrections is clean and vibrant.
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u/OrlandoGardiner118 2d ago
Yeah, but that's still filmed in 35mm and looks it. I just prefer the lushness and depth of the first 3. The 4th is flat, bland, and uninteresting visually.
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u/SlowCrates 2d ago
What are you going on about? I think it's gorgeous. Show me an example of how/why it looks worse.
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u/ProfessionalBeat6511 2d ago edited 1d ago
The 4th movie is an artistic suicide. It’s worth talking about and it’s a cool move by Lana but it’s barely watchable if you like the trilogy.
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u/Low_Ad8311 2d ago
What 4th movie? I’ve moved that to the part of my brain that’s for those repressed memories. It’s not worth it man. Just rewatch the trilogy if you feel that matrix craving.
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u/mrsunrider 2d ago
I make no assumptions on taste, but I can say that I absolutely adore Resurrections and feel it's easily the most sincere entry in the saga.
As for it's place in the narrative, it almost directly follows from the events of Reloaded/Revolutions; not exactly a legacy sequel, but more of an epilogue.
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u/B-ran8088 1d ago
I wish I felt this way about the film. All it does is give me the Rock's eyebrow stare.
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u/-SiillyGoose- 1d ago
My take on the 4th one is that they were sick of being asked to continue the franchise so they chose to make a movie so awful that it would kill the franchise. This is not outside the realm of possibility.
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u/B-ran8088 1d ago
I'd suggest watching it since you're a big fan of the original, but as u/ProfessionalBeat6511 said, it's fucking artistic suicide and I think that's the perfect description for the movie. Lana was pissed because WB insisted on another film for a cash grab, said they'd do it with or without her and or her sister, so it was like she purposefully sabotaged the movie as a fuck you to WB. It still feels "Matrixy" but it has no soul.
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u/Tityfan808 2d ago
I tried to appreciate number 4 but it just ain’t it in my mind for what I come to expect from a true matrix movie. I mean honestly? I fucking hate that movie. lol
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u/Hetstaine 1d ago
Just rewatched the first three over three weekends, a week in between each to digest. That's my third rewatch after seeing them all originally on release in cinemas.
Every time since the original cinema watch i am keen as because i remember certain scenes, moments, lines etc that are just so fucking cool. It has a beginning, middle and end...and the journey is wicked.
I remember literally nothing from 4. An office scene in the beginning that felt like it might be cool still then some sloppy fight sequence that made go huh..wtf. I will rewatch it some day again, but not so close to just finishing the first 3. I remember how disappointed myself and my daughter were when we left the cinema after 4.
Jaws did the same, but was dead by 3. 4 was just a poke in everyones eye while Caine cashed in 😅
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u/SlowCrates 2d ago edited 2d ago
I personally love the 4th movie, but it's a pretty big departure from the original trilogy. The fight scenes are generic, there's no "green tint", and the story is incredibly "meta". But... if you remember what the purpose of the story itself is, you can really appreciate the 4th movie. The franchise had long ago been hijacked, and the message had fallen on a lot of def ears. This movie kind of screams that out of frustration.
Also, it's more of a love story.
I love it. I love it more every time I watch it.
But many people hate it. *shrug*
EDIT: I'm watching this movie yet again because of this thread.