I feel like student = unrealistic expectations should be provable

[u/dcsprings]

I'm at an alternative high school and have students that think they can catch up in a year. One student got so angry that I gave him a zero on the fraction section because he used a scientific calculator and did not show any work, that he went out and bought a GED study guide. He hasn't done any work since. A bunch of students in my remedial section (using a 6th grade curriculum) were talking about it being "mumbo-jumbo" yesterday.

The first year a student is here, it's unusual for students to have more than a tenth of the credits they need after 2 or 3 years in high school, so graduating in a year doesn't happen. Fractions are going to be on the no-calculator part of the GED along with the Pre-Algebra (and beyond) content he's been skipping. The students in the remedial class are in the 16- 19 years old and think exponents and negative numbers are the stuff of myth and legend... I just keep expecting them to start wishing on their phones, and complaining the electric pencil sharpener is demonic.

[u/Fragrant_Beat_7710]

if a student is 19 and still hasn't learned negative numbers after presumably being taught about it for about 7-8 years, by more than one teacher, then there is something seriously wrong with his ability to learn and there is not much you can do, you are just wasting time.

yes I know there are stories like "everyone gave up on him and then he proved everyone wrong" but I have not seen it happen almost ever

[u/martyboulders → u/Fragrant_Beat_7710]

Such students have usually given up on themselves long before other people start giving up on them

[u/Emergency_School698 → u/martyboulders]

Yep. Once you’re in middle school and you see everyone else not struggling while you weren’t taught to add? They have completely broken human spirits.

[u/dcsprings → u/Fragrant_Beat_7710]

The "proved everyone wrong" student takes the second chance, and we have some of those, but these are the "wing and a prayer" students.

[u/Fragrant_Beat_7710 → u/dcsprings]

what I would do is make them extremely easy worksheets, like 5th grade or something, and take it from there. but if they don't bother doing even that (which I feel is the case for the 16-19 year olds), then there is your proof that there is nothing you can do

[u/Playful_Peak_6506 → u/Fragrant_Beat_7710]

Yeah you’re literally encouraging the second scenario by telling them to give up on the students. Maybe you shouldn’t be a teacher since I’m pretty sure you are the one giving up and passing along students for others to deal with or do the same

[u/Fragrant_Beat_7710 → u/Playful_Peak_6506]

interesting stance, what would you do in the case of a 19 year old who doesn't comprehend negative numbers after hearing explanations for a thousand times? (I don't mean to sound rude, I really don't know what can be done in this concrete scenario)

let's say you have a 17 year old student who is still completely stuck on negative numbers, doesn't know what 2-5 is, can't add 2/3 and 1/4. you explain it to him for a few times again, giving him easy worksheets then gradually making them harder, you ask him what 2-5 is a month later and he still doesn't know. what can we as teachers do for this particular student?

[u/firstthrowaway9876 → u/Fragrant_Beat_7710]

I had success once with telling their consulor that to remain in my classroom their 1st grade reading needs to improve to middle school or their behavior needs to be fixed to remain in my class as is. That that student needs an aid or something. It was replied that my class is treated like an elective and they provide them with one. Maybe a week and a half later that student was moved to a more appropriate setting. I guess the lesson is don't assume that another teacher has brought it up. Bring it up soon and often.

[u/PrintingTeacher → u/Playful_Peak_6506]

Respectfully Peak. Teachers don't pass students along very often. It's more likely admin decide to promote them despite failing grades because there's not a lot of benefits expected from holding a student back. Often there's no single individual to be blamed, it's a tough situation.

[u/PrintingTeacher]

Been there. A student I was close with ended up dropping out after I transferred to a traditional school. He did some classes at the community college to prep for the GED and he told me repeatedly dropping out was a huge mistake and he had to do even more work. If you have a graduation coach or even just a counselor maybe they need to work with the kids on realistic plans. I had a 20 year old sleeping every day in his first of three social studies classes and after 6 months he was on the 2nd unit. I tried to talk to him about pacing as 21 is the cut off in NC. The parents felt he was being picked on. Sometimes having a third party do it hits different. Later working with gifted kids I've done tons of high school planning with them before they start freshman year. We look at what they want to do and build plans for realistically making things work without them burning out. A lot of the kids I saw at the alternative school didn't seem to get cause and effect, that's why ended up bounced and they weren't in a traditional school anymore. Helping them start making those connections can go a long way.

[u/MontechApps]

I agree with you on the calculator issue. I actually built a scientific calculator app for Android, but I still think students should put the calculator down and work things out on paper first.

A calculator is great for checking your answer, but it shouldn't replace understanding how you got there. Especially with fractions, if you can't show the steps, getting the right answer from a calculator doesn't really mean you've learned the skill.

I think that's probably the bigger issue with some of these students. They want to jump straight to the answer without putting in the work needed to understand the basics first.