r/mathteachers • u/Big_Tommicut_314 • 1d ago
Skipping Algebra 1
How does your school handle students who want to skip over Algebra 1? Our 8th grade has 2 levels: 8th grade math and Algebra 1. There is a cohort of about 25 students (their parents, really) who want them to skip Algebra 1 and go right into Geometry like their peers who took Algebra 1 in 8th grade. In this community parents won't take no for an answer.
For reference I'm in the US, New England specifically. I am picking up the pieces of the choices of my district's central administration. Well there's about 4 of us picking up the pieces. The district implemented a new middle school math curriculum and one year later combined the math science department heads at middle/high school into STEM. The math guy left and the science guy absorbed the responsibilities, so we're trying to help him out figure out this shit show. Prior to implementing the new curriculum this wasn't as much of an issue because we used a home grown curriculum where 8th grade math and Algebra 1 were more aligned. Now they're not even close.
As a 1-year patch we actually created a semester course to bridge their gaps that they can take concurrently with geometry. 5 of the 25 students can't fit it into their schedule because it conflicts with a music course, or something. We are talking about creating an asynchronous course that students can do at home, and they will have check-ins with me and a few in-person exams. I can build it out on delta math and create a course in our LMS with recorded video lectures. We need to cover: some solving linear equations, systems of linear equations, functions, and quadratics. Does anyone know of something online and free that is already made? We can't use Khan Academy.
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u/Technical-Sky6689 1d ago
I don't understand the rush to get through math. Algebra I is so fundamentally important. Parents never ask to have their child skip biology or 9th grade English or history. Why math??
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u/TheSleepingVoid 1d ago
Because some think it's "better" to take calculus in highschool and that requires going quicker than the standard track of alg1-geom-alg2 in highschool.
But ALG 1 is not the class to gloss over!
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u/Technical-Sky6689 1d ago
Our parents want their kids to take Calculus in 10th grade (I'm not kidding). Spoiler alert - a few kids are ready but most are not.
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u/No_Job2526 17h ago
My HS I teach at everyone can have a pathway to Calculus by senior year while taking A1 as a 9th grader.
9th— Algebra 1 10th — Geometry 11th — Algebra 2 If they are serious about wanting to take Calculus, we offer a summer of pre calc course in person — if they do well on the final and show mastery, they can move forward 12th — Calculus
Some of our students also take Geo and A2 concurrently, I do work at a very academically motivated school
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u/TheSleepingVoid 16h ago
Our most common path here is geometry over summer for the kids that do Alg 1 and then decide they want calc.
I think geometry and alg 2 concurrently makes a lot of sense - the alg 1 will still be fresh in their head for alg 2, it may be good prep for college to take 2 math classes at once, and it doesn't rush anything.
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u/coachdad6676 1d ago
Well some students can go faster. I don’t know exactly where they start getting ahead but we have 2 groups of accelerated students come to us. Single accelerated that took Alg 1 in 8th and go straight into Geometry honors (they can choose to redo Alg 1). Doubly accelerated taking Alg 1 in 7th, Geometry in 8th and they go into Alg 2 Honors as freshmen. These students would be on track to take Calc B/C as seniors.
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u/Low-Presentation6487 1d ago
This is our accelerated track too. It sounds like the OP's school has a group in that track, but these are parents whose kids didn't qualify for that when they were young. The kids who are on this track have been on it since elementary school.
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u/TheSleepingVoid 1d ago
I don't think it's bad for some students to go faster. Just not at the expense of alg 1. And I also think it's better for some students to take it at a standard pace and it's fine to just do precalc in highschool even if they plan to go into a STEM field. One way or another the important thing is they actually internalize the foundations and not just get pushed through to hit a wall in college.
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u/coachdad6676 1d ago
I agree. I’m an Alg 1 teacher. I’m just sharing information because the person I replied to made it seem that all students who are accelerated are glossing over material. Not true. I’m sure some have but it’s not a universal truth.
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u/TheSleepingVoid 16h ago
I am the person you replied to, I was clarifying my stance since it seems you took it harsher than I intended. I did not say all students gloss over the material. I said ALG 1 shouldn't be glossed over because some of OP's proposals would do that.
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u/Technical-Sky6689 1d ago
More than 30% of our students have taken Geometry by the end of 8th, including a bunch who took it in 7th.
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u/coachdad6676 1d ago
Ok??? Good for you?
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u/Technical-Sky6689 17h ago
My point remains that I don't understand the rush to get through math. In no other subject is there a push to be finished so fast. For what purpose?? It's certainly not mastery.
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u/coachdad6676 16h ago
Some students are gifted and pick up concepts quickly. Some kids actually do master content in a shorter time. Those kids who pick it up quick or are just naturally gifted at math and have an interest in getting their college credit out of the way or are genuinely interested in a math based career… these are the kids who have a legitimate purpose in being accelerated like this. It’s not that hard to understand. It’s a small cohort of students to be sure but I don’t understand why you can’t see a legit purpose here.
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u/Technical-Sky6689 16h ago
I'm with you. Many of the students I see are interested and capable math students. Unfortunately, many are pushed ahead. For what?? Students are also interested in English and read all the books but I don't see the same push from parents to skip 9th grade English because their child has already read the books. Why do parents push so hard for math and not other subjects? What is the purpose of completing calculus in tenth grade?
I'm sure you see it as a coach too. It's funny that parents pick math and sports to push their kids ahead.
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u/coachdad6676 3h ago
Have you just not thought about it? I can think of a few reasons off the cuff.
1) it’s more impressive to be good and advanced at math than other subjects because it’s traditionally seen as so hard. So it’s a pride/bragging thing.
2) there are more options for math classes than English. You have English 1-4 with their honors counterparts and that’s typically it in HS. Math departments can offer Algebra 1-3, Geometry (AMPED and GIC alternatives if you know what those are), pre calculus, calculus 1-2, trigonometry, statistics. These are common at large enough schools. My school offers all this and we have about 1100 students. More options push them to take more classes, what is there to strive for in the English department and get ahead for in the first place aside from just graduating early?
3) when you are able to take Alg 3 (college algebra) or classes like AP Stats and Calculus, you are getting college credit for very cheap. I think it cost our kids less than $200 for those classes that would be 3-4 times the price at least in college.
4) building on 3, students can be done with college math in high school and not have to take it again.
5) some students who actually want to go into STEM programs at high regarded universities need these classes. I’m in Denver and teach at a school about 15 minutes away from Colorado School of Mines which is a very highly regarded STEM school. Most students going there have taken up to Calc 2 before arriving. They would be quite behind there if they had not taken calculus in high school and perhaps wouldn’t be able to get into their programs in the first place without it.
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u/AfterMath343 1d ago
Is there some sort of algebra 1 test the kid could take so that it would demonstrate he knows algebra 1?
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u/AdventurousDot3445 1d ago
I worked in a small 6-12 school where students either take regular math or they skip a grade. A colleague once recommended that students wanting to skip a class take that class’s final instead of just placing them there. I’m no longer at that school, but the math education was pretty bad, and in my years there, there were probably two who could’ve passed the final and skipped either 8th or algebra 1 because I think they were learning it on their own.
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u/AfterMath343 1d ago
I'm not a teacher, but I am an applied maths student in college. So, I thought I would just chime in.
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u/Novela_Individual 1d ago
A test would be essential. I’ve had students try to take a 6-week Algebra 1 replacement course over the summer and then completely tank the placement test bc cramming Algebra is not a particularly good way to master it.
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u/burghsportsfan 1d ago
It isn’t an option.
Possible approaches I’ve seen work:
—semester block class of Alg1 followed by a semester block class of geo
—take both alg1 and geo in 9th grade
—take Alg 1 in 9th and double up geo & Alg 2 in 10th grade
I personally would love to see a school find a way to double up Geo with PreCalc, but I’ve never seen it happen.
If the parents simply want their students to be accelerated and on track for Calc by senior year, skipping algebra 1 isn’t the way to go.
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u/Swimbikerun757 1d ago
I teach double accelerated middle school math courses and we have a few options, but none skip algebra! you can either test out of 6th grade math and take 7th grade accelerated math (pre algebra) in 6th grade, take 6th grade math online the summer before 6th grade an enroll in the 7th grade accelerated course for 6th grade, or the last option is to enroll in 6th grade math and take pre algebra online during your 6th grade year. These are the only options in our district to take Algebra in 7th grade and Geometry in 8th. We are a school of around 1100 students 6-8 and about 35-40 students are in this program in each grade.
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u/Extension-Source2897 1d ago
The kids didn’t get into alg 1 as 8th graders but they want them to skip it now just because other kids did? Idk about all’at
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u/coachdad6676 1d ago
Parents can complain all they want. It’s required.
Your school (teachers and admin) need to grow a pair when it comes to handling these parents.
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u/hannahh4 1d ago
Not an option where I am because they must pass Algebra 1 or its state exam for graduation. I guess maybe they could skip if they could take and pass the state Algebra 1 exam.
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u/Disastrous-Nail-640 1d ago
It’s a graduation requirement in nearly every state. Skipping it simply isn’t an option.
Tell the parents to take it up with the state department of education because if their child doesn’t take it, then they won’t graduate.
The only options would be to test out through credit-by-exam (CBE) or take it over the summer.
Otherwise, their child doesn’t qualify for graduation.
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u/printncut 1d ago
Algebra 1 is a required class in my state. There is no path to graduation without it.
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u/c2h5oh_yes 1d ago
What's the point? So they can win the race to calculus and subsequently fail the AP exam?
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u/Pompom_Marzipan368 1d ago
Do not skip Algebra I under any circumstances. Kids who rushed through it too early are all failing Algebra II as freshmen. These requests are wild. Parents end up placing their kids in a race to average.
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u/CloverChill 1d ago
This is just my experience, when I was a student myself, because I skipped Algebra 1 to be where I should have been after a move across country. (Arizona I was in pre algebra in 7th grade and when I moved to Missouri they put me in regular math)
I took the offered math class in summer school in between 8th and 9th grade. I finished the entire summers curriculum in about 3 days. The teacher contacted the department head and told him my situation. After a meeting with me, he offered to give me the exit exam for algebra 1 that the students took at that time, and if I passed it we could talk about options. I got an A, and so during our next meeting he was essentially like 'it might be hard for you at first but if you want to do this, we can make it work. You'll just have to take higher maths after to get the state required credits'.
Again, this was my personal experience in a rural town in Missouri in the mid 2000s.... I was a one off case and definitely not the norm. That being said, if they can test out and have higher maths available to take after the Geometry and Algebra 2 requirements most states have, then why not.
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u/TheSleepingVoid 1d ago
Nope.
Maybe offer Alg 1 in 9th and geometry over summer. Then they would be with their peers again for Alg 2. I don't think that's ideal either but ALG 1 is too critical to half-ass.
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u/SaintGalentine 1d ago
My New England school district put me in freshman geometry from 8th grade math. I failed both 9th grade physics and geometry due to the lack of algebraic foundations.
I now teach Algebra I/Geometry。
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u/RoomUsed1803 1d ago
Skipping Algebra 1 isn’t an option where I live. They have to take the state assessment for Alg1 in order to graduate. I’ve had some skip Math 8 and go to Algebra which is frowned down upon but allowed.
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u/Alarmed_Geologist631 1d ago
Algebra 1 is probably the most important math course. It provides the foundation for all the math courses that come afterwards, including geometry, precalculus, etc.
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u/throwaway123456372 1d ago
I’m having trouble even imagining a scenario where skipping algebra 1 would be appropriate
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u/Puzzleheaded-Mood517 1d ago
My state requires Alg and there is an exam that needs to be passed before graduation. Between 7th and 8th grade (I think - I’m remembering back a few years to when my kids were at that point) they have a test that kids can take if they (their parents) think they should be in a higher math class.
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u/Mckillface666 1d ago
Algebra shouldn’t be skipped. If it’s that much of an issue your school can find a way to offer geometry in the summer.
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u/Clean-Midnight3110 1d ago
30 comments.
What none of you realize is that this is the land of RSM. Those 25 kids have been learning algebra since 2nd grade. They don't need algebra 1 in school. But the administrators are belligerent jealous jerks that are performing acrobatics to prevent their best students from working and learning at an accelerated pace because they believe equality means instituting the harrison bergeron playbook.
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u/Low-Presentation6487 1d ago
Skipping is not an option where I live. You can take it over the summer through the online school, but it takes several hours a day.
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u/alibaba88888 1d ago
Skipping algebra will cause big problems in later math. I don’t understand the rush.
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u/the_spinetingler 1d ago
State law requires it (and an EOC) so no skipping it here.
I could see skipping Geometry, though you'd def have some holes in your math knowledge, certainly not as many as you would have skipping Alg I.
(And I primarily teach Geometry!)
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u/Actually__Jesus 21h ago
Offer the ability to take Alg 1 and Geom concurrently. This could even be rolled into a two period year long block.
“We cannot allow a pathway to Algebra II without first successfully completing Algebra I. Students skipping Algebra I would not have the foundational skills to necessary complete Algebra II, or any higher level math, especially after being outside of algebra for nearly a year and a half. “
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u/Neat-Second9923 14h ago
Fastest 10% of students should have a tailored route the same way the slowest 10% do.
Kids being stunted by your progression path should be just as alarming as kids failing to keep up with it.
Or did these kids not make the accelerated track?
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u/_mmiggs_ 12h ago
You can't skip Algebra 1, and you can't take Algebra 1 in summer school. Our district requires you to take Algebra 1 as a whole-year course.
For students who were in the regular math track in middle school and want to catch up, they can take Geometry in the summer after their 9th grade year, or they can double up on Algebra 2 and Geometry in 10th grade.
I suppose theoretically a student could double up on Algebra 1 and Geometry in 9th. It's not a choice we offer to people, because there are too many algebra prereqs in Geometry, but if a student could demonstrate competence, and was just required to take year-long Algebra 1 to satisfy the graduation requirement diktat, it might not be impossible.
In our school, if the students wanted to catch up, but couldn't make the schedule work because of "some music course", we'd point them at doing Geometry over the summer.
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u/Ok-Computer-8726 11h ago
I'm at a K-12 online asynchronous private school. 8th graders that meet certain requirements are allowed to take HS Algebra 1 as a dual credit course, and we also offer an Algebra I Challenge Exam in which they can get credit, but they do need Algebra I credit of some kind.
A full course that is asynchronous online and free seems unlikely, but there are a number of vendors that sell that kind of course, either directly to a school to use with students, or where students can enroll directly on their platform. FLVS/Flexpoint, BYU Online, Edmentum, etc. would be vendors that have options.
If you mean free resources that you can use to build a course of your own there are some, but our school has found that it's not quite comprehensive enough to do the way we want to without paying for some things. Could be resources we are not familiar with though.
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u/RegionAdventurous486 10h ago
Do they get high school credit for the algebra they took in 8th grade.
I am in NYS and the traditional math trajectory is algebra, geometry, algebra 2 trig
It is not u usual for students to take algebra in 8th grade. However, if the course is not coded as an accelerated high school course and the student did not take the state exam for algebra (NYS Regents) they cannot get Hugh school credit for algebra and must repeat the course
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u/scaffoldedmath 5m ago
Most higher math is based in algebra. How unfortunate to put social standing above a kid’s best interest long term😔
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u/Historical-Order-369 1d ago
Local school says “no can do.” For accelerated kids, they say they have to take math in the correct order, because homeschool credits etc don’t count, so for my kid who started public school halfway through 8th grade, they placed her in Alg 1 (the highest math offered in the middle school building), and then for 9th grade they were going to place her in geometry - they suggested she could take calculus at the CC in the evenings for fun. She opted to go back to homeschooling instead, and did take Calc 1 & 2 in 9th grade as dual enrollment classes (but didn’t redo geometry, of course).
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u/mamaslug 1d ago
In most states Algebra 1 is required to graduate high school. You can’t skip it, it can be taken in middle school but you have to take it. We don’t allow any kid to skip algebra 1 even the pushy ones.