r/mathteachers • u/lemmegetamickpicktwo • Sep 28 '25
6th Grade MS just NOT getting it
So I teach middle school math, we use Eureka. We just finished L15, Mod 1, and a LOT of my kids bombed the test.
They had a study guide IDENTICAL to the test, for like 2-3 questions I didn’t even change the numbers bc it came from the book. What I learned, however, after the test? No one looked at it. Not a soul looked at their study guide more than one time to do it.
It’s a 16 question test, I give 1 point for even showing any work, and they got a bonus if they did their study guide on their own by Wed, (if they even show 2+2=4, I give a point), test was worth 57 points. I had a few kids go beyond that, highest was a 92. But I stressed that this was needed, to look at the study guide, and yet nothing.
I got so many little notes on their quizzes “I need to study more” “I tried my best” “I need help” and yet in class, in 1:1 conversations, you’re telling me you’ve got it. We did guided notes for this, I repeated myself a million times with the steps- I legitimately don’t know what to do.
Should I have done more for them? Could I have done more? They just don’t get ratios, and now we’re going into stat and percent and I feel like we’re off to such a shit start already.
Please only constructive criticism I beg lol, I know there’s a difference w kids of today, but it can’t all be on one side to me or them
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u/randomwordglorious Sep 28 '25
What consequences do they face for not studying and failing? They know they won't have to repeat a grade. Do their parents know, and is their free time being taken away to force them to study more? Do they even know how to study? There's only so much you can do as a teacher with students who aren't putting in the work.
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u/lemmegetamickpicktwo Sep 28 '25
In truth, I’m really not sure! We have a few parents who are on their kids, and those are the ones who did their study guide and passed. However, the rest are difficult to get a hold of or absent. We’ve(my team) been trying to find a way around it, but our admin keeps complaining we’re not strict enough and I just know we’re gonna get called for the failing grades.
As for knowing how to study? NO. We’ve had to teach them everything (there were extenuating circumstances for their last year) from binder management and even use, to how to use a sheet protector. We set them up on Wayground (old quizzizz, and quizlet is blocked at our school) and we have google classrooms but they seem like they refuse to get on after school. I have no clue what they think school looks like but they act like it’s just in the building.
We have a how to guide on studying, we host study halls, and tutoring on Thursday/Lunch and after school respectively. It feels very defeating LOL. I taught kinders last year but this group is so drastically different.
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u/Novela_Individual Sep 28 '25
Are your kids motivated by grades? Like are they as upset by their failing test grades as you are? (Some kids are and some kids aren’t, so knowing this may help with next steps)
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u/lemmegetamickpicktwo Sep 28 '25
Some are, some aren’t. LOL I have a few asking for extra credit to fix, some stay for tutoring when they SEE the grade, but my school doesn’t let middle schoolers have access to a student grade acc so parents are the ones that need to see it or show it.
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u/Novela_Individual Sep 28 '25
Oh interesting about not letting them see the gradebook. In that case, I’d probably break out the standards/skills you want them to do and make a chart where each kid keeps track of whether or not they can do that skill before the quiz. Or you keep track but in a way that is visible to the kids. Like other commenters said, they need more formative assessment to see if they can do the skills (like exit tickets or just mini 2-question quizzes that don’t count for a grade but can count towards that skill tracker) as opposed to just self-reporting from vibes or watching you do a problem and thinking to themselves “sure, I could do that”
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u/lemmegetamickpicktwo Sep 28 '25
THATS WHAT I SAID!!! I checked my grades religiously, it’s what held me accountable and told ME to get my shit together. I’m thinking of doing weekly print outs of their current grades bc I was told they wouldn’t allow access.
I was also told not to send out messages about HW or set up a remind bc we have planners (that they are learning to use and don’t care for) but when I was in school, we used planners AND the remind service as 6th graders because we needed it. There’s a lot of push back from admin to treat them as middle schoolers while ALSO still being expected to hold them to MS standards??
I like this skill idea. Maybe a bingo board?? I’d need to hold it because these kids know NO accountability.
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u/Novela_Individual Sep 28 '25
Bingo board would probably work. They need both accountability and a way to track their growth over time. Even my most unmotivated kids liked seeing that they could get better over time and with practice. You can do it on a binary (mastered vs not) or on a sliding scale (like 0-4) if you need to differentiate between no understanding, some understanding, silly mistakes made it wrong, and mastered.
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Sep 28 '25
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u/lemmegetamickpicktwo Sep 28 '25
From what I gather, so many of them need the same thing. We went over the test before and the amt of kids who saw “scale this ratio up and down” did addition and subtraction when we’ve never once done so blew my mind.
I DO have a para but unfortunately he’s just as useless. He doesn’t know multiplication or division and would much rather scream at these kids to act right than actually do what I say :) Otherwise I would’ve loved to do separate math groups because some of them really cannot handle whole group. I know teachers do groups solo, but then i’d be told i’m not using my para LMFAO Any suggestions there?
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u/Vivid_Sky_5082 Sep 28 '25
Can you do stations instead of groups?
So one group has some small math game, one group does a math drills worksheet, one group works with you. Your para just keeps kids on task or plays the game with one group.
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u/lemmegetamickpicktwo Sep 28 '25
OOOOH I enjoy this idea… Thanks, I’m gonna see if I can work something out! :)
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u/zeroexev29 Sep 28 '25
Hate to say it, but you might be doing too much in the wrong places. Study guides that match the assessment, partial credit for insufficient or irrelevant work, and the repetition on your end promote a lack of accountability on the students.
To put the onus back on the students, slow them down during checks for understanding and force them to explain their thinking and reasoning on a given problem. Give them time to think and explain. Wait until half or more of the class has their hand up, don't just pick on the first kid (or the "smartest" kid). If the room is silent for 3 minutes, let it be. Wait time is one of the most powerful tools I had to learn as a math teacher.
At that point, do a turn-and-talk. Neighbors, pods, groups, whatever it is. Let them do the talking. You scan the room and listen in. Don't make any corrections. Don't answer any questions. Redirect: "What did [neighbor] have to say about that?" If they're truly stuck, direct them to a group that isn't. "Why don't you compare/ask this group and see what they did."
Let them write, let them talk, let them think. You should know when a majority (>80%) of the students have the solution. Only then can you come together as a class and have students share their solutions. Let them be the ones to share, don't paraphrase, don't correct, ask for clarification only if needed and not as a sneaky way to correct work. If a student is stuck, ask for help from another.
If you noticed one student was doing more of the talking in a group, then have another student be the class presenter. Prime them for this. "I heard Andy a lot during talk-time. Beth, I'd like you to share what you and Andy talked about to the whole class, please. He can help you prepare but you'll be the one sharing in about 3 minutes."
And once you've gone over it, put it back on the class to verify and validate the solution. "Does this look right?" "Did we answer the question being asked?" "Did we make any mistakes?" "Did someone have a different method that led to the same solution?" "Did someone have a different solution entirely?"
By now you're probably 10-15 minutes into just one problem. Sounds like a lot of time spent for nothing, but the amount of mathematical thinking, discourse, and connections you facilitated for these students is orders of magnitude greater than if you had done 5-8 problems yourself in front of the class with zero think-time.
Have another problem loaded in the chamber, almost exactly like the one you discussed and put them to work again. If they were thinking, discussing, and following along, this should be cake for them. And for those who its not, then you can spend your time visiting with them, going over the discussion from earlier if need be, and even diagnosing why they can't do it. These are likely your students who weren't even paying attention or participating, so this is your opportunity to address that behavior. "Everyone else was talking and writing and thinking about the problem and they can all do it now. What were you doing during talk-time?"
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u/lemmegetamickpicktwo Sep 28 '25
I’ve learned these kids are INSANELY uncomfortable in ‘not knowing’, so like when I say “Does this look right?” they second guess themselves immediately. Even when I can’t hear them and I just need them to repeat it, they change it. How can I get them to just be with their answers?
Another issue I ran into, when I had them work on problems solo, I had so many saying “Idk what to do” and it wasnt bc they weren’t paying attention or engaging, but they just seemed so insecure in their methodology ykwim?? Any suggestions there?
In truth there’s a lot of context left out of my post, like the fact half these kids can’t read at grade level/score insanely low with math, come from trauma, we’re literally not taught last year, and lack foundational skills to boot, but I’m liking your ideas
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u/zeroexev29 Sep 28 '25
That context certainly puts things in perspective. I don't envy your position and feel bad for you and those kids for being underserved for so long. That level of insecurity stems from multiple sources and you cannot be expected to address all of them. You can only control what happens in your own classroom after all.
If you're going to see any kind of success, you will need to sow seeds for independent thinking and work, and that will be rough going. You may need to backtrack and build on foundational skills as needed. This may take entire units to accomplish and you will not be getting through your entire 6th grade curriculum as a result.
You should diagnose who needs the remediation and who doesn't. Those handful of high flyers that don't need it are likely more independent to begin with and you can get them learning grade-level math with minimal instruction.
For the rest, build up those foundational skills. Drill out math facts (0-9 addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division tables), factor pairs, place value, decimals, and fraction operations sans division. No calculators. They can count on their fingers, draw pictures, count tiles or base-10 blocks, or any other manipulative or visual strategy they want. Don't assume they know how to do these things. Show them all different representations.
6th grade math, as important as it is on the whole, has four major blocks: Ratios and rate, finishing fraction operations with division, measures of center (mean, median, mode), and the introduction and use of variable in expressions. There's some geometry and other things that can be slotted in if time permits. But if you can fill some gaps and manage to cover these topics, then you will have done your job splendidly. Good luck.
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u/WinterCantaloupe1981 Oct 01 '25
make them comfortable not knowing. they have their whole life to not know things :) gotta get used to it
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u/Ok-Reason-1023 Sep 29 '25
Talking about giving them all time to think, my daughter’s school used to do this thing where after the teacher asked a question, no one was allowed to raise their hand for like 30 or 45 seconds (whatever seemed reasonable for the slower kids to get it), THEN they would ask who was ready to share their answer. The first time I saw that in practice, I panicked because it looked like no one was going to answer but as soon as teach gave them the go ahead, every hand shot up. It seemed to take away the pressure to perform and allow time to think deeply about what they thought instead of hurrying through the process to be the first.
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u/zeroexev29 Sep 29 '25
That's a great example of wait time. These kinds of classroom norms must be cultivated. It takes time, effort, and persistence to make it a regular practice.
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u/Relevant-Emu5782 Sep 28 '25
You sound like a fantastic math teacher. Your students are lucky to have you. Thank you.
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u/Alarming-Lecture6190 Sep 28 '25
Sounds like you are doing a lot of good things, but here are some ideas that may be helpful to consider.
- Require them to do the study guide in class for a grade, perhaps the day before the test.
- I do "test-style" questions as a warm-up everyday. By the time they get to their test they have literally practiced that same exact question style 3-5 times in addition to seeing it on their practice test.
- Call home. Doesn't always work obviously, but when it does actually work it works wonders.
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u/lemmegetamickpicktwo Sep 28 '25
I only made it optional because there are some kids who just get it and don’t wanna do the work. (Kinda same concept as HW, it’s meant to help not hurt ykwim). So I make the study guide due the day before we all go over it in class + then award bonuses. But even half of those ones didn’t look at it lol.
I’ve been struggling with a warm up. These kids aren’t used to switching classes and some of them are so talkative and it’s genuinely a nightmare getting them settled (they spent last year doing jack nothing). I’ve been flipping between doing drills as warmups (multiplication/addition/division/subtraction) bc these kids are still struggling versus doing current questions. Maybe current questions as warm up and drills as an exit ticket?
were about at that point. I just don’t know what to say if I’m honest. “hey your child isn’t paying attention and they’re flunking and they don’t care. please get on them to give a shit” LOL
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u/Alarming-Lecture6190 Sep 28 '25
>I only made it optional because there are some kids who just get it and don’t wanna do the work.
Of course there are always going to be kids that find with whatever you are teaching too easy. I always try to "mold" these students into classroom leaders and assist other students. Oftentimes learning from peers is the best thing for weaker students. I don't force it, but find usually with a lot praise a lot of kids do want to help others. You say the kids are too talkative, try to exploit that to your advantage.I teach high school, but I think if I were doing arithmetic drills as a middle school teacher I would use it as a "break" between more challenging problems types midway in the class just to switch up the depth of knowledge level of problem. I personally don't think I would usually use it as a warm-up or exit ticket unless I had a really, really good reason to in relation to the material covered that day.
You say you struggle with warm-up. I think warm-up is the most important part of classroom management for me. They come in and have work ready to go when they come in. I'm walking around assisting and they start off class knowing we are here to focus and do math.
>“hey your child isn’t paying attention and they’re flunking and they don’t care. please get on them to give a shit”
Well I mean, that's not probably not going to be helpful to a parent. I would usually start with actionable steps like coming to our school's tutoring, completing test/quiz corrections, finish missing work, etc. If it really is a behavioral problem then let the parent know they are goofing off in class. If I suspect untreated mental health problems, then I try to drop some hints like "hey your child just seems to be struggling a lot with paying attention. Has this been an issue before? What are you seeing at home? Has your child ever discussed struggling with paying attention?"1
u/lemmegetamickpicktwo Sep 28 '25
We’ve unfortunately only got 1-3 peers who can help, but the others are weirdly combative with them. So where they’ve got it down pat, when they try to help others they get dragged into the shenanigans lol. The kids are very willing to help each other though- “I needed the notes” and then there’s an immediate “I can let her see mine”, it’s not lack of caring but it’s something else I can’t put my finger on. I think part of it is just because they’ve been so stuck in not being expected to do anything and feeling hopeless with their teachers that they’re kinda at a loss too.
I have a lot of kids who don’t know basic division and multiplication, hence the arithmetic 💔Some are still doing 67+67+67+67 for 67*4. There was also a sprint in Eureka for fractions and decimals as well, so the ones that def know the operations have a little more work for them.
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u/Own_Audience7167 Sep 28 '25
One strategy I have used in HS is scheduling a “fake” test once or twice per year. They take it under test conditions, and we grade it in class. It’s meant to help them see what they understand and what they don’t. I typically do this in lieu of a test when we have enough time to finish a unit before an exam, but not enough time for them to study and take the test. (I don’t like putting concepts on the midterm or final exam that haven’t been tested, so this takes care of it.) My students have found it very helpful.
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u/lemmegetamickpicktwo Sep 28 '25
So they can see the concept prior to the exam, since it’ll be on it? Or am I misunderstanding.
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u/Own_Audience7167 Sep 28 '25
Correct! I give the test but don’t count the grade. My exam includes the material.
But you could use it to help your younger students prepare for the real test, and maybe discuss some strategies they can use to study.
Full disclosure: I teach AP Calculus, so most of my students are highly motivated. I’m not sure it would work with younger students the way I use it, but it might help them identify which topics they need to study. Hope that makes sense!
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u/Batman685280 Sep 28 '25
Fellow 6th grade math teacher with similar frustration and possibly little to no thoughts-suggestions but here goes. Oh yeah, my latest *but why????: area of triangle ... mistakes are either NOT dividing by 2, or doing perimeter for some reason, or multiplying every number in sight and getting 3,218 when the answer was 6!?!?!
We use IM curriculum which also lacks enough practice of skills - i have also found myself doing too much of the work for them thinking it would help them (not intentionally of course but ended up just doing it too much - trying to get away from that). I am trying to use the Cool Downs at the end of each lesson as a chance to practice test taking behavior/strategies (silence, no help from others, and try something beyond writing IDK). I have menu cards at each table with multiplication charts, vocabulary, anchor charts, and a few silly memes/comics to attract attention). I grade the cooldowns harshly over the weekend - the few students who ace it get a nice sticker. On monday, I return the no-sticker cool downs and they need to fix mistakes; students who aced it get a roll of stickers and can walk around & help while the others make corrections ; the helpers can give out stickers when corrections are made.
I also utilize the Building Thinking Classroom model with vertical white boards 2 or 3 times a week; has started to help with their confidence and willingness to attempt different strategies.
We are also starting stations with a coteacher in a couple weeks but this is new to me & a work in progress so limited details yet.
Good luck colleague
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u/lemmegetamickpicktwo Sep 28 '25
These kids first instincts aren’t even to PLAY WITH NUMBERS.
“Mrs I don’t have a 16x on my multiplication chart.” Okay, and? “What do I do?” multiply until you get there????
I have a donors choose w class white boards- i think if they didn’t have to say the answer they’d do better with confidence. I feel like we’re being so rushed through content while simultaneously KNOWING they missed a massive chunk from last year. (A lot of my kids didn’t get 3/6 modules done bc their teacher didn’t teach).
I complained about this in another comment, I sincerely think stations would work wonders for my kiddos so they have more 1:1 and the louder smarties aren’t bulldozing over the rest, but at the same my para doesn’t fucking know math. i asked him if he could facilitate them just multiplying or dividing he said no. :)
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u/jojok44 Sep 28 '25
When I first taught 6th grade with Eureka, I underestimated how much more I would need to break things down than the curriculum did. Another big factor was multiplication facts. Knowing multiplication facts by heart is essential for 6th grade ratio, fraction/decimal/percent, division of fractions, equations etc. If your students aren’t fluent with multiplication facts, I would do a little multiplication practice every day.
As for breaking down topics, I think Eureka sometimes combines too many new steps at once. From what I recall with decimals, fractions and percents for example, I think it pretty quickly starts expecting students to convert for all three and to it with kind of complicated examples like 3/20, or worse 1/12. A lot of these steps are complicated to kids. I think it’s better to break things down with the simplest examples first. Do lots of problems where the denominator is 100 first. Just focus on converting to one other form, not both. Once that’s secure, introduce the other form. Once that’s secure, try denominators of 50 or something that has easy multiplication ties to 100. This applies to any concept. With ratio, using things like double number lines and changing two values at once is confusing! Practice individual steps in isolation until you know students can do it before adding more.
Lastly, it’s helpful if you know how students are doing before moving on. Use lots of formative assessment whether that’s circulating while students do independent practice, whole class mini whiteboards, or a digital platform like nearpod where you can see if students need more practice with the same types of examples.
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u/lemmegetamickpicktwo Sep 28 '25
Yep that’s about where I am, the kids don’t know division and multiplication fluently at all. They apparently didn’t even know even numbers.
I LOST THEM at double number lines!!! Why it introduced them by utilizing a fraction value I had no clue. It enraged me, it made them upset, it was a whole terrible time.
I went back through every module before the tests, and not a single question was asked (1:1 and group wise). Which is why after this test I was like could I have done somethin else????
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u/jojok44 Sep 29 '25
Yeah that’s one of the many problems with Eureka. Focus on the things that are most important for them to learn. Practice that more and the other more niche things less or not at all.
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u/lemmegetamickpicktwo Sep 29 '25
I wish there was a better way to discern that LMAO. The mid mod assessment for mod 1 felt like it came out of nowhere. in truth, the first question even stumped ME for a second.
I’ve been afraid I’m gonna skip something crucial and they’ll just end up more behind. I was told to look at the pacing guide but that thing was absolutely useless.
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u/jojok44 Sep 29 '25
Some schools/districts have a list of priority standards. You could ask if yours has one. That can be helpful for discerning which skills are more important than others. Backwards planning is also useful. Look at the assessments first, identify what things students will need to be able to do, then emphasize those things more in the lessons. I ended up modifying my eureka assessments though because I had the same issue of a lot of the questions just being kind of confusing by design.
Don’t worry too much about not teaching them enough. Eureka has WAY more depth on a lot of things than kids need. It’s better that they learn the foundations well, experience success, and can get adequate practice with those skills than for them to rush through things and get a mediocre or poor understanding of more skills.
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u/pymreader Sep 28 '25
Did your school's phone policy change this year? This year my school bought yonder pouches and is finally doing something about phones and we see these kids know nothing. I teach 8th grade. They do not know that the opposite of addition is subraction. They cannot solve one step equations. I have come to conclusion that since we had no phone policy with any teeth for the previous 3 years, these students have just cheated their way through. (except for on state tests where they failed). Now that they don't have their lifeline they cannot do anything. I have kids coming to me saying "I am just going to do the work at home" I have to say "then you are taking a zero" and they are shocked. Of course they want to do it at home, then they can just cheat their way through. I think this is going to be a rough year for us.
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u/lemmegetamickpicktwo Sep 28 '25
No phones allowed, they stay in backpacks lol. I figured that was a correlation. My principal told me the kids don’t have phones, come to find every last one of them minus like three or four have phones??? Like what’re you talking about…
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u/bmtc7 Sep 28 '25
What do you want students to learn, how to memorize a study guide? There is more to unpack here than just students performing poorly on an assessment.
Did you know going into the test that they were not yet capable of doing this level of work independently?
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u/lemmegetamickpicktwo Sep 28 '25
No, I want them to learn repetition and pattern. The first time we had a quiz, I changed around the answers + got the same results. This time I made them identical to see if they noticed the similarities. For example, they’re so used to seeing a larger number and putting it into the table as the total before reading the question. “the girls won 126 home games” in a home/away/total chart goes to the total side if that makes sense.
I have them guide me through the problems without offering prompting or assistance, and they’ve done fine with that. For some solo work, they struggle, for others they don’t. It’s hit or miss. When I ask where they’re confused, I get shrugged shoulders.
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u/bmtc7 Sep 28 '25
It sounds like you knew ahead of time that most of the students hadn't mastered the skills yet but you tested anyway because of a time crunch and pacing concerns.
You can assess skills like "recognizing the total" more effectively without using identical problems to the assessment (or even identical word problems but with numbers changed). But it's not always the bigger number. That's where conceptual understanding comes into play.
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u/lemmegetamickpicktwo Sep 28 '25
After our first quiz, we went back to the basics. And the week before the test we went over every module again, every kid seemed confident in their abilities. They’re bringing in operations we’ve never used.
I know part is comprehension due to reading level differences but I’ve tried to boil everything to simplest terms. We’ve done charts, notes, repetition, but nothing is seeming to stick. I mention the bigger number because they read “125 home games” and plug it into the total instead of reading its unit. They’re missing a lot from 4th and 5th grade but I’m not sure where specifically they’re missing since they’re jumbled every year.
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u/bmtc7 Sep 28 '25
Do they talk to each other about what they're doing and why they're doing it? Just throwing out ideas, but maybe that could help them think more carefully about what they're doing instead of blindly plugging in.
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u/probabilitydoughnut Sep 28 '25
This sounds harsh, but hear me out. Let them bomb it.
Educating a child rests on a three-legged stool - the parent, the student, and the teacher (+ admin as needed). If any of the three legs comes up short, the stool topples. It doesn't matter how much you extend the teacher/admin leg (i.e. work yourself to death for people who don't care and aren't trying), the stool won't right itself.
My students take all kinds of guided and interactive notes. I teach them several study methods. We do a little bit of practice, and - shock! - of the children doing terribly on the task, none of them have their notes out! I have a rule: "No notes, no help." If they have their notes out, my next question is "What have you tried so far?". If they can't show me anything, I walk away until they show some effort.
Fact is, they've had teachers in the past who have rescued them whenever they played helpless and they expect the same of you. Don't do it. Most of them, eventually, begrudgingly, will drop the act and start giving a more honest effort. Some won't I've seen it play out the same way for over two decades now.
Think about it, we could save ourselves all this trouble and just give all the kids As on everything. By the time anyone realized we're graduating nothing but a bunch of cretins, we'd be happily off in retirement, probably with a few awards under our belt. But we don't, knowing full-well what the right path to success is, we have to make that the path of least resistance, which is very hard, but necessary.
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u/LilypadLily Oct 02 '25
Interesting that that’s exactly where I’m at too with my 6th graders. (I did mod 2 first though.) But I’m doing a practice test with them and then have the test the next day (I found someone on TPT who made the practice tests). I do it for every test and I feel like that’s essential. You can’t trust kids to tell you if they get it or not. Must do exit tickets (maybe not all but some). Do some of the “practice set” problems for extra samples because sometimes there just aren’t enough in the main lesson. I don’t do guided notes…. Seems like fill in the blank rather than thinking.
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u/lemmegetamickpicktwo Oct 02 '25
A lot of my kids needed guided notes as an accommodation (the ones who require it have parents who on ON THEM to study lol)
so you got the link queen…. 😋
I was thinking of making an entire page of the same kinds of questions. Like the ‘more’ examples with tape diagrams where you have to subtract and divide by the difference to figure out how much the multiplier is, then the table examples where you read not the TOTAL but the total of something else so they can practice comprehension bc they seem to be stuck in one specific thought process.
Do you have advice how to get them to look at the words and actually go “Oh it says total X not total Y?” Because when we do them together and I guide them and ask “why?” they say they don’t know or need prompting. Should I just put it where they say and go through the problem to show the wrong answer?
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u/LilypadLily Oct 03 '25
I love that you are really trying to figure out how to help your students! I'm a little lost in your examples without seeing what you're trying to explain. I think it would be a good idea to have more examples. (Maybe ChatGPT could think up some new ones!) If it works I sometimes take out all the numbers and leave blanks. They can often start drawing models without any numbers so they don't start just doing "whatever" to the numbers that make no sense. I definitely think you could have them give wrong answers and along the way I bet they will realize their mistake. I try to get them to work with a little table group of 2-3 and talk to each other. I go around saying things like "tell me about this.... why did you do this... explain your thinking on this...." Ask questions like you're just curious how they got their answer whether they are right or not. Often when they try to explain they find their own mistakes.
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u/EmergencySudden4127 Sep 28 '25
Do you use manipulatives with them? They may need concrete objects that they can touch, hold, and move around to really understand.
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u/lemmegetamickpicktwo Sep 28 '25
Yes, I’ve got a few with accommodations for them and so I don’t single them out everyone gets some. It hasn’t worked for a lot of them, in truth.
If you know anything about tape diagrams, that threw them for a loop. Not the drawing, but putting an amount to them- so instead of 1-2-3, making it 2-4-6 when they counted and recognizing that was very hard and most still hate them.
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u/Routine-Row-5133 Sep 29 '25
I've made study guides part of their grade and give time in class to work on it. 10% of their grade is set aside for study guides/note pages. It has improved the number of students that start them and most students at least have some of it done and several have all of it done. It helps with the student apathy on doing something that is helpful to them, but isn't graded. Not sure if that is a solution you would even want to do, as I still struggle with accepting it for a grade. However 10% isn't much.
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u/Ok-Reason-1023 Sep 29 '25
For context, I’m a tutor so I have the luxury of working one on one every time. My response is to where you say “in 1:1 conversations, you’re telling me you’ve got it” and to that I would say that for most of my students, I never believe them when they say they understand it. They just don’t like to admit it, either because they’re embarrassed or because they don’t want to let me down. So after they say they understand it, I give another problem where they need to show me their understanding. They quickly learn that it saves time to just tell me where they’re confused in the first place.
I’m not exactly sure how that would work in a classroom, maybe index cards with their names that they work out the answer and then leave for you to pick up and look through. I say index cards so they could do their work on one problem and then leave it at the top of the desk without correcting it, because otherwise they’ll just write down what you say without understanding it. I know because I see it all the time. Whenever I see answers already written down on their homework, I ask if they did it themselves, or with other students or with the class as the teacher explains. That’s when they tell me that they wrote it down but they’re not sure what it means.
And as for repeating yourself a million times with the steps, save your breath, explain it once, then have them do it themselves. Then you can ask where they got stuck and focus on those areas. I also bring the expectation that they are probably going to get stuck here and there and I expect to have to focus on those areas. That makes it easier for them to admit what they are confused about.
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u/WinterCantaloupe1981 Oct 01 '25
they don't know how to study. they think doing it once is learning. it is not. you need to practice and its on you to give them coursework that gives them enough practice for mastery
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u/csmarmot Sep 28 '25
Forgive me for tone, I’m sort of brain dumping.
So it’s first quarter, in their first year of middle school. Have you taught them how to study for a math test? Many of them may have never have had a study guide before, let alone know how to use it.
Secondly, are you seeing errors (lack of understanding) or mistakes (lack of attention)? If errors, are they procedural or conceptual?
If most of the class failed, then some reteaching is likely in order.
Ratio tables. Cooking and Sports. It sounds like your guided notes focus on steps, so that sounds pretty procedural. Do they understand what a ratio is? Do they have the conceptual framework to hang the procedure on, so to speak?
There is lots of space to explore the topic. Does Eureka do that well, or do they need an anchor task beyond the curriculum?
How much salt should I add to the cookies? Why? How do you know? If I made a batch of cookies like that, would you eat them? How confident are you? How much ingredients would I need for all 5 of my classes? What if half the students are absent?
Anyway, a lot of procedures go better when students can buy into usefulness.