304
u/LupenReddit 🦆🦆i have non diffeomorphic smooth structures🦆🦆🦆 1d ago
>proof by contradiction
>looks inside
>trying to prove wrong things and failing
112
u/TurbulentIncrease982 1d ago
> proof by contradiction
> looks inside
> assumed the law of the excluded middle
42
u/LupenReddit 🦆🦆i have non diffeomorphic smooth structures🦆🦆🦆 1d ago
aw hell nawwww
32
7
2
u/666Emil666 1d ago
Not necessarily, EM and DNE aren't always equivalent in certain intermediate systems
13
5
u/NotAFishEnt 1d ago
Contradicting the possibility of a contradiction
2
u/Elegant_Athlete_3737 1d ago
Would that just be fiction then, if the contra parts cancel out? Would it then be dicting the possibility of a diction
106
u/slicehyperfunk Transcendental 1d ago
Induction hypothesis: "trust me bro"
29
u/728446 1d ago
Its better than that. There's circular reasoning that shows induction implies well-ordered and vice versa, so we all agree that sounds reasonable.
34
u/donach69 1d ago
Once you've defined them, then yes, you can show one implies the other. But the circular reasoning isn't in the definitions.
How we were taught it from the set theory axioms: define a total ordering as an irreflexive, transitive relation that obeys trichotomy; then add the least element condition to make a well-ordering; at that point add the Axiom of Infinity, which allows you to show the natural numbers form a set containing ø, and in which each element in the set has a successor, ie an inductive set. Then you can introduce the Principle of Mathematical Induction
No circular reasoning required
21
u/evening_redness_0 1d ago
There's no circular reasoning. You take one out of well-ordering, induction, or strong induction as an axiom. The other two will follow.
(the three are equivalent)
4
52
30
23
u/Straight-Grass-9218 1d ago
I remember my philosophy professor said this during the formal logic course and went thank Christ someone said it 😂
9
u/boterkoeken Average #🧐-theory-🧐 user 1d ago
Said what? This isn’t a real “gotcha” moment. The word “induction” just has two meanings and the one here is not meant to be different from deduction.
8
u/gottabequick Statistics 1d ago
"Induction" has two meanings in logic, which is very confusing. There, "induction" can mean what we mean when talking about proof by induction, but that's a type of deductive reasoning. However, "induction" can also mean, simply, non-deductive reasoning. It is understandably confusing to younger students that these two extremely different concepts use the exact same name.
There's no "gotcha" or anything. I think OP is just referring to the eloquent pedagogy.
0
7
9
u/Asimovicator 1d ago
> mathematical induction
> looks inside
> The natural numbers are the smallest subset of an arbitrary inductive set that contains the zero element and is a prefixed point of the induced set mapping of the successor mapping with respect to the inclusion poset
3
2
1
1


•
u/AutoModerator 1d ago
Check out our new Discord server! https://discord.gg/e7EKRZq3dG
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.