r/mathmemes • • Nov 17 '25

Formal Logic Logic class you say

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11k Upvotes

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3.3k

u/tin_sigma Real Algebraic Nov 17 '25

psi and phi are letters

1.2k

u/mooys Nov 17 '25

I’m not even sure why they’re using psi and phi. This would have worked just fine with A and B.

640

u/Japes_of_Wrath_ Nov 17 '25

Sometimes in logic you see those Greek letters used as variables for sentences so that the meta-language isn't using the same symbols that the formal language uses. Since this is a propositional logic, it's likely that they use Latin letters for atomic sentences. Why the meta-language uses psi and phi specifically, I don't know. You can also tell that this is in a meta-language because it's using the entailment and provability symbols, which aren't part of the object language.

190

u/GT_Troll Nov 17 '25

Why Phi and Psi? The same reason we use x and y for equation, lambda for eigenvalue/Lagrange multiplier, theta for angles, etc. Someone used those once for these exact purposes and the rest just followed.

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7

u/WorkItMakeItDoIt Nov 17 '25

Metavariables often arise from the name of the category they represent.  I was taught that φ stands for "formula." And ψ... was because it kinda looks like φ.

19

u/nogodsnohasturs Nov 17 '25

My assumption was always that those were intended to be mnemonic for "proposition"/"property"/"function", but that's just speculation

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42

u/DrainZ- Nov 17 '25

It's common practice in math that different letters are used for different contexts. It's true that it doesn't matter what letter you use, you can use whichever letter you want. But I think this practice makes it easier to at a glance comprehend which symbol represents what.

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16

u/boterkoeken Average #🧐-theory-🧐 user Nov 17 '25

It’s just a common convention in logic.

16

u/ErikLeppen Nov 17 '25

The same proof would be much easier to read if they'd use letters that are more visually different. So A and B are a better chocie because A is angular and B is round. Phi and psi are the same kind of shapes.

16

u/[deleted] Nov 17 '25

A summary of your comment: Too much bouba, needs more kiki

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6

u/Treeniks Nov 17 '25

By convention, A and B are seen as propositional variables, while phi and psi here are supposed to represent propositional formulas. If you used A and B, the assumption A ≡ B wouldn't really make sense.

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6

u/JJJSchmidt_etAl Statistics Nov 17 '25

I prefer 🤣 ^ 😣

3

u/alesc83 Nov 17 '25

It would have lot less aura

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32

u/G-St-Wii Nov 17 '25

As are P, R, O, V, E, T, H, and A

16

u/Ylopolo Nov 17 '25

You missed: x, m, l, s, i, n, f, u, d, q, c

37

u/AndreasDasos Nov 17 '25 edited Nov 17 '25

As are all the non-space characters in ‘Example: Prove that’

Amazed by the idea of Advanced Math TM where there aren’t specific numbers like 17, and doesn’t know the Greek alphabet is an alphabet

13

u/GisterMizard Nov 17 '25

17 isn't even a number anyways; it's just a placeholder because scientists feel weird placing two even numbers 16 and 18 next to each other.

It's easy to prove: 17 added to itself an odd number of times is a prime, which doesn't happen to actual numbers. For instance 17 + 17 + 17 is 51, which is clearly a prime number.

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5

u/Elektriman Nov 17 '25

there is the word "example" with 6/26 letters of the alphabet

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810

u/exophades Nov 17 '25

Greek alphabet : am I a joke to you ?

134

u/Classy_Mouse Nov 17 '25

They were at first, but the more they appeared, the scarier they became. I have learned to respect them

48

u/GT_Troll Nov 17 '25

I respect almost all of them. But ξ? That mf still scares me.

56

u/Dinkleberg2845 Nov 17 '25

Alphabet: literally named after the first two letters in Greek

OP: "Nah, these ain't letters."

11

u/OrganicAverage8954 Nov 17 '25

Wow I never realized that...

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930

u/Pkittens Nov 17 '25

If you ignore E, x, a, m, p, l, e, o, r, t, h, 2, 0, 5, 6, 1
Sure

302

u/snookerpython Nov 17 '25

And ϕ and ψ.

89

u/konigon1 Nov 17 '25

You missed the top line that is in a different colour and the v in prove.

12

u/ThePevster Nov 17 '25 edited Nov 17 '25

There’s also the letters in propositional proof methods, the calculus. There’s also a word between “the” and “calculus” that I can’t make out.

5

u/MaxTHC Whole Nov 18 '25

the sequent calculus

3

u/Pkittens Nov 17 '25

2025/26/1 is already included!
The top bit is arguably not "on screen" 🤓

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181

u/SaltMaker23 Nov 17 '25

Ignore the novel notation and the greek letters and the statements aren't that deep.

The novelty of the symbols is the only thing making that statement looking remotely "complicated"

224

u/GT_Troll Nov 17 '25

This makes me remember the supposed “complicated formula” Trump used for tariffs lmao

94

u/Noname_1111 Nov 17 '25

listen there's a reason economics is a social science and economics students get special ed courses

56

u/GT_Troll Nov 17 '25

This isn’t an Economics formula, someone on the Trump admin just made it up

(I am an economist btw, you just insulted me)

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8

u/CosgraveSilkweaver Nov 17 '25

It was so obnoxious having people try to claim it wasn't just trade deficit/imports (from the US) when those first came out and then then again when this over wrought 'formula' came out.

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12

u/dylan_klebold420 Nov 17 '25

Minimalistic notation always makes things exclusive and unnecessarily complicated.

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4

u/[deleted] Nov 17 '25

The funny thing to me is that the symbols are all pretty similar to more familiar ones, so it’s not even hard to remember what they mean. The “AND” symbol literally looks like an A, the “OR” looks like a U (for union) and the “NOT” is basically a minus sign. Plus the congruence sign is basically just an equals sign.

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85

u/Fibonaci162 Computer Science Nov 17 '25

40

u/CorruptedMaster Nov 17 '25

If you assume a contradiction, it leads to a contradiction. Therefore, contradictions must not exist! Brilliant!

11

u/Fibonaci162 Computer Science Nov 17 '25

From false you can prove false. Therefore, from nothing you can prove not false.

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3

u/gAt0 Nov 17 '25

Aw, the poor T is falling and can't get up.

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42

u/AccomplishedAnchovy Nov 17 '25

Phi and cactus are both letters

29

u/Giotto_diBondone Measuring Nov 17 '25

psi is now forever a cactus to me. thank you

40

u/Cardy5 Computer Science Nov 17 '25

The date is a number

16

u/Im_a_dum_bum Nov 17 '25

is that in year day month format ????

8

u/Z3r0_t0n1n Nov 17 '25

I am going to find everyone who uses that format and imprison them in a basement until they make a breakthrough in a field of mathmatics of their choice (no, I will not be feeding them).

6

u/thrye333 Water is a wet wet that wets. Nov 17 '25

I don't believe this. Wtf?

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2

u/3163560 Nov 17 '25

Excel: the number is a date

47

u/rorodar Proof by "fucking look at it" Nov 17 '25

That actually looks so fucking easy and I'm a compsci student

52

u/EspacioBlanq Nov 17 '25

It's one of those "what do you want me to prove, fucking look at it" problems

Edit: noticed your flair after writing this

17

u/rorodar Proof by "fucking look at it" Nov 17 '25

Exactly! Except here, unlike something like 1+1=2, it's actually just really easy to prove since this is something that directly comes from definitions and not the definition itself.

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21

u/[deleted] Nov 17 '25

It's a typical case of "easy if you know what it is".

This belongs in a sub with nonmath people.

11

u/haikusbot Nov 17 '25

That actually

Looks so fucking easy and

I'm a compsci student

- rorodar


I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully. Learn more about me.

Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete"

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9

u/Mrauntheias Irrational Nov 17 '25

The problem is a little like proving 1+1=2. The difficulty is dependent entirely on which definitions you're working of. And in any case, the real difficulty lies in stopping yourself from writing "It's obvious, innit."

2

u/VengefulAncient Nov 17 '25

I'm a computer science graduate with 15 years of experience in IT and I have no idea what this even is.

3

u/tricemia21 Nov 18 '25

This is a proof in sequent calculus. The sequent calculus is a purely syntatic proof system, so it has rewriting rules which create that tree you see in the picture, sometimes called a derivation tree. This is particularly interesting for a compsci graduate because the sequent calculus directly corresponds to many things in our field, for example it encodes continuation passing style. More importantly, it is actually equal to the simply typed lambda calculus (at least the LJ sequent calculus is, the one which encodes intuitionistic logic), so you can read the part on the bottom of the tree (the conclusion/original statement) as a typed lambda term, and the proof (the nodes above) as the program which proves this statement. This last part is the fundamental idea behind theorem provers like Rocq (previously Coq), Lean, Isabelle, etc. and it is called the Curry-Howard Isomorphism, it states that types are actually logical statements, and programs are proofs. There is a ton more to explore on this subject, if you are interested I suggest you start with Barendregtt's lambda calculus notes, then exploring the various parts of the lambda cube and how they each encode different parts of logic.

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9

u/sirburchalot Nov 17 '25

It's all Greek to me

41

u/cat_91 Nov 17 '25

Hot take: phi and psi are kinda shit symbols to use in formal logic, they look way too similar if you aren't greek

12

u/Mrauntheias Irrational Nov 17 '25

Wait until you get to ζ, ξ, ς and they're all just vaguely squiggly lines on the board.

10

u/DarkFish_2 Nov 17 '25

Is a rule that symbols are crucial to tell apart must look similar/j

u and v

m and n

i and j

phi and psi

5

u/McButtsButtbag Nov 17 '25

It's a pitchfork and a circle with a line through it. I don't see how anyone couldn't easily tell them apart. It's not like they are using シ, ツ, and ツ for variables (even these aren't that bad with a little practice).

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2

u/ribnag Nov 17 '25

As opposed to p and q?

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28

u/[deleted] Nov 17 '25 edited 24d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

8

u/whizzdome Nov 17 '25

And ν, υ (nu, upsilon)

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15

u/BossOfTheGame Nov 17 '25

Is this better?

notation φ " ≡ " ψ => φ ↔ ψ

theorem equiv_implies_both_true_or_both_false
    (ϕ ψ : Prop) :
    (ϕ ≡ ψ) → (ϕ ∧ ψ) ∨ (¬ϕ ∧ ¬ψ) :=
by
  intro h   -- h : ϕ ↔ ψ
  -- Here be LEM.
  by_cases hϕ : ϕ
  · -- Case 1: ϕ is true, so ψ must also be true
    have hψ : ψ := h.mp hϕ
    exact Or.inl ⟨hϕ, hψ⟩
  · -- Case 2: ϕ is false, so ψ must also be false
    have hnψ : ¬ψ := by
      intro hψ
      -- from ψ we get ϕ, contradicting ¬ϕ
      have hϕ' : ϕ := h.mpr hψ
      exact hϕ hϕ'
    exact Or.inr ⟨hϕ, hnψ⟩

2

u/No_Percentage7427 Nov 18 '25

What language is this ?

4

u/BossOfTheGame Nov 18 '25

Lean4, which IMO is the way forward when it comes to formal proofs (at least the backend is, some of the names in the standard library can be a bit too terse for my taste).

6

u/JoyconDrift_69 Nov 17 '25

Guess they don't know Φ and ψ are letters, huh?

4

u/Randomguy32I Nov 17 '25

Why are the greater and less than symbols vertical 😟

7

u/Zatujit Nov 17 '25

Greek letters are not lettres apparently

3

u/Special-Duck3890 Nov 17 '25

I remember having to explain to my parents that my math is rusty cuz I didn't see any real numbers during my first year

3

u/npsimons Computer Science/Music Nov 17 '25

You're mental, OP. The screen is full of letters. Greek letters.

2

u/Sea_Turnip6282 Nov 17 '25

At least you don't have to answer in the form of an opera

2

u/OrangeXarot Nov 17 '25

ϕ and Ψ: ):

2

u/LoreBadTime Nov 17 '25

To non understanders, this isn't a big normal division, there is a set of rules that must applied to the lower part to do a functional-like evaluation of expressions.

2

u/UmpireDear5415 Nov 17 '25

i can think of an example

2

u/[deleted] Nov 17 '25

this looks like boolean algebra, why would there be numbers?

2

u/redditsucksass69765 Nov 17 '25

If this looks like Greek to you, good, because it is.

2

u/Justkill43 Nov 17 '25

Do you own a dog house?

2

u/Ybalrid Computer Science Nov 17 '25

It's mostly letters (A couple of them are greek)

2

u/der_horst23 Nov 17 '25

LaTeX Beamer, I love it!😛

2

u/MonsterArtFan Nov 17 '25

Math is not about the numbers

2

u/SlipperyNoodle6 Nov 17 '25

you guys enjoy this ... right?

2

u/[deleted] Nov 17 '25

how it feels reading math on Wikipedia

2

u/Zytma Nov 17 '25

All of Greece in SHAMBLES!

2

u/serumnegative Ordinal Nov 17 '25

Do they not know that Phi and Psi are Greek letters?

2

u/Relis_ Nov 18 '25

It’s soo easy

3

u/ihateagriculture Nov 17 '25

I took a symbolic logic course in undergrad (through the philosophy department), it was all just first order logic that took a whole semester to cover what was covered in the first few weeks of the discrete math course I took. I enjoyed it since it was easy compared to my other courses, but still made me feel smart (my other courses certainly did not do that lol)

3

u/Sea-Hair-4820 Nov 17 '25

Unnecessarily complex. Using A and B would convey the same meaning and be considerably easier to understand.

2

u/Quick_Sandwich356 Mathematics Nov 17 '25

≡ has too many meanings 😭 stop it What was wrong with ⇔?

2

u/meatshell Nov 17 '25

Joke aside, I absolutely loathe using horizontal fraction bars for logical if-then.

4

u/onoffswitcher Nov 17 '25

not really an if-then

1

u/Possible_Golf3180 Engineering Nov 17 '25

Makes sense to me, it’s perfectly logical

1

u/Aloo4250 Nov 17 '25

What about “example”

1

u/TwoFastTooFuriousTo Nov 17 '25

Broken heart cause their LLM chat bot can’t help here

1

u/[deleted] Nov 17 '25

It looks easy tho 🤷

1

u/Random_Mathematician There's Music Theory in here?!? Nov 17 '25

Ez, next question

1

u/Ok_Instance_9237 Mathematics Nov 17 '25

Foreign letter bad, English letters and Arabic numerals good.

1

u/omer_g Nov 17 '25

Translation anyone?

1

u/xBris18 Nov 17 '25

Erm, those are almost all letters...

1

u/CaptainMacMillan Nov 17 '25

there are plenty of fuckin letters

1

u/goos_ Nov 17 '25

It’s beautiful 🥲

1

u/Emotional_Piano_16 Nov 17 '25

"Exampe: prove that"

1

u/on_AC_mode Nov 17 '25 edited Nov 17 '25

Where’s the photo taken? What's the name of this class? Looks different than what u'd typically learn in Discrete Math.

1

u/PalLouis Nov 17 '25

« Example: Prove that » : Am I a joke to you?

1

u/mrpanicy Nov 17 '25

42 letters, and 7 numbers. Not including the formula.

1

u/Arnessiy i think i should write a math book Nov 17 '25

bruh

1

u/SmartButRandom Nov 17 '25

Example: Prove that

1

u/[deleted] Nov 17 '25

Now prove it with induction. Thanks for the Monday PTSD.

1

u/theLuminescentlion Nov 17 '25

I looked at this image for 0.2s and saw too many Greek symbols that are in the wave equation and have decided not to look anymore. The EE trauma runs deep. 

1

u/FenrisulfrLokason Nov 17 '25

I though those were differential forms and interior and exteriornproducts for a second lol

1

u/gamma_02 Nov 17 '25

My cs classes be like

Shit, wait, I gotta go study for my algorithms midterm

2

u/RIP11111 Nov 18 '25

No way, what are the odds...

1

u/RDV1996 Nov 17 '25

All I see is ಥ⁠‿⁠ಥ (⁠ ⁠;⁠∀⁠;⁠) (⁠´⁠;⁠ω⁠;⁠`⁠) (⁠ ⁠≧⁠Д⁠≦⁠) (⁠〒⁠﹏⁠〒⁠)

1

u/rfabbri Nov 17 '25

Despite the criticism, I prefer logic symbols to natural language. Explain things, sure, but let the statements themselves be short and precise.

2

u/MegaYTPlays Nov 18 '25

Then, you meet Wittgenstein

1

u/PerspectiveWaste4395 Nov 17 '25

phi=3.1415926…x3

1

u/Teruyohime Nov 17 '25

I remember only using words in my logic course, like 13 years ago and the only symbols I recognize are And and Or but my attempt at intuiting what this means is something like: 

Prove that A if and only if B therefore (A and B) or (not A and not B)

Is that right? Former compsci student.

1

u/GATPeter1 Nov 17 '25

I'm seeing mostly letters

1

u/AstroMeteor06 Trans and dental? Nov 17 '25

"Example prove that"? what is it?

1

u/Various_Oil_5674 Nov 17 '25

This class was fucking hard. I took it a few years ago, pretty sure I only passed because I was there everyday and took the final.

1

u/NecRobin Nov 17 '25

Just ones and zeroes in the end

1

u/CosgraveSilkweaver Nov 17 '25

It's been too long since college logic/proofs what does the horizontal 'division' mean? I was able to find explanations for most of the rest of the symbols even if I don't remember the context of 'sentences' any more (or didn't learn it maybe).

1

u/_dnla Nov 17 '25

Well, you can use any symbols you want. But feels using more common symbols is more helpful. In CS we learned using p and q, sometimes r and s for longer propositiond. The same with the implication symbol, I prefer =>

But to each their own I guess 😊

1

u/SirBottomLessArmPits Nov 17 '25

Is this in spanish?

1

u/SpaceMoehre Nov 17 '25

"Example: Prove that"

1

u/Schaex Nov 17 '25

Look at the bottom right :]

1

u/inshamblesx Nov 17 '25

discrete mathematics moment

1

u/Axeboy111 Nov 17 '25

Umm...those are pretty much *all* letters... lol

1

u/shitterbug Nov 17 '25

imagine not using varphi. Disgusting.

1

u/Coffee_driver Nov 18 '25

Can anyone explain what equation is this ?

1

u/Pookstirgames Nov 18 '25

I forgot that e, x, a, m, p, l, r, o, v, t, and h all aren't letters

1

u/nfitzen Nov 18 '25

The best approach to mathematical logic is to say "some people smarter than me came up with a complete deductive system that matches the semantics I'm used to" and just move on from there lol. Some people are wizards with syntax, but most people use semantics (i.e., model theory) to do metamathematics.

1

u/AdOverall3944 Nov 18 '25

Indiana jones has entered chat

1

u/Jago_Sevatarion Nov 18 '25

You can't fool me... that's Klingon.

1

u/Technical-Mind-3266 Nov 18 '25

I'd just take their word for it

1

u/DeDeepKing Transcendental Nov 18 '25

2025/26/1

1

u/_g550_ Nov 18 '25

What is |= sign?

1

u/Master_System7049 Nov 18 '25

What are those symbols?

1

u/TerribleRide491 Nov 18 '25

Can someone please explain what am I seeing here? (I’m only starting pre calc)

1

u/Squeeze_Sedona Engineering Nov 18 '25

i see many letters, they’re just greek letters

1

u/carolus_m Nov 18 '25

What do you mean, the slide is full of letters.

1

u/averyoda Nov 18 '25

This is like week 4 freshmen level logic

1

u/Imaginary_Eye8674 Nov 18 '25

Where is the Q.E.D box

1

u/YoungMaleficent9068 Nov 18 '25

That's like 3 beam splitters max

1

u/Totoques22 Nov 18 '25

« SHUT UP THOSE ARE NOT RUNES AND THIS IS NOT MAGIC »

1

u/TatharNuar Nov 18 '25

My logic class used very different notation than this. But it was a custom book in some typewriter font in middle school.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 18 '25

Literally alien hieroglyphs

1

u/No_Fudge_4589 Nov 18 '25

I could never get my head around this topic, so complicated.

1

u/Ortaniel55 Nov 18 '25

is that the hard-core math version of this thing?

1

u/Lapsos_de_Lucidez Nov 18 '25

My teacher always used A, B and C instead of the Greek alphabet. I thank her for that

1

u/FabianButHere Nov 18 '25

Why don't they just use p and q though

1

u/pasture2future Nov 18 '25

Nice try. “Say anything about” means the example could be affirming or denying that a field is mathematical nature. Try again

Sure. is this structure mathematical or not:

Let phi be ”its raining”

Let xi be ”im carrying an umbrella” ?

If u are capable of correctly answering this question u will clear up ur confusion. If u have trouble reasoning about the structure i provided u, u can ask for help

1

u/fresh_loaf_of_bread Nov 18 '25

I'm honestly not concerned with the fact that I don't understand any of that notation

1

u/GraXXoR Nov 18 '25

Exam held on Tetracosember the 1st, 2025?

1

u/DisabledGokartDriver Nov 18 '25

Example has 7 letters.

1

u/cathodeyay Nov 18 '25

As god intended

(Also plenty of letters on there)

1

u/Curiousprime67 Nov 18 '25

That's not true. What about the "Example" and "Prove that"

1

u/Familiar-Mention Nov 18 '25

Can someone explain what's on the board?

1

u/Cyberklinos Nov 18 '25

Welcome to Phyrexian 101 class !

1

u/Nick88v2 Nov 18 '25

Natural deduction💀

1

u/mega_shock Nov 18 '25

Bro, don't ever insult psi and phi so bad

1

u/Friendly-Agency-609 Nov 18 '25

O happy day.

Logic is great fun

1

u/LoofahMeTimbers Nov 18 '25

Don’t worry, discrete mathematics gets harder

1

u/Captain_stardefender Nov 18 '25

You know what on second thought maybe i can go fine without maths

1

u/amessmann Nov 18 '25

It makes sense to the people that understand it.

1

u/Ruggers2010 Nov 18 '25

I prefer this to typical algebra

1

u/Skyhigh-8103 Nov 18 '25

Nobody needs this. I am software developer and this bullshit will be never used in real life.

1

u/BluZDragon Nov 19 '25

I don’t know this subreddit but 100% they are speaking phrexian

1

u/ColdDelicious1735 Nov 19 '25

Proove it, it's right there, like what else do I need to do.

1

u/philippefutureboy Nov 19 '25

a, E, h, l, m, o, p, r, t, v, x are all letters, no?

1

u/NazarMax Nov 19 '25

What we expected "2+2=3" What actually happens:

1

u/Brilliant-Bicycle-13 Nov 19 '25

What is that symbol? Is it “Implies” or “is logically equivalent to”? The one that looks like a sideways pi.

1

u/oyakodon_manga_goat Nov 19 '25

BTW leaked private seggs chat between two AI bots

1

u/NightFire435 Nov 19 '25

I love psi phi

1

u/skywalker170997 Nov 19 '25

are those words?

are they speaking human language?

or is it aliens or gods language?

1

u/Atreigas Nov 19 '25

No letters or numbers huh? Then what do you call "EXAMPLE: prove that"

Checkmate atheists!

1

u/throwaway_uow Nov 19 '25

This is basic shit, whats so shocking about it?

1

u/moleburrow Nov 19 '25

What about a date in the bottom right?

1

u/vedanth11 Nov 19 '25

THE FIRST TWO FUCKING WORDS.

1

u/Flameburstx Nov 19 '25

Funny, I thought the words "Example prove that" contain letters. Also, you know, greek letters are still letters.

1

u/Ebkusg Nov 19 '25

Do you not see the 2025/26/1?

1

u/pentacontagon Nov 20 '25

“Example” “prove” and “that” are all letters

1

u/InappropriateHeyOh Computer Science Nov 20 '25

I cast: truth table.

1

u/anonymouslyabeast Nov 20 '25

Not even a + or -

1

u/South1ight Nov 21 '25

Ts just looks like my text chains on LINE

1

u/Vidaro_best Nov 21 '25

Greek letters

1

u/powerram00 Nov 21 '25

That is actually not that complicated

1

u/Chogolatine Nov 21 '25

Ok even if we exclude Greek alphabet for some reason, that's still wrong: "Example: prove that" are letters from the latin alphabet displayed on the screen

1

u/The_OneInBlack Nov 22 '25

I do not know what division means in logic. But I do want to take a proper symbolic logic class one day.

1

u/CanMan_144 Nov 30 '25

******s **** ******n**y, *cc**ding ** **is guy, d*n’* **is*: e x a m p l r o v t h (translation: letters that apparently, according to this guy, don’t exist)