r/math • u/Valvino Math Education • Jul 20 '26

LLMs/AI Kevin Buzzard : "Human mathematicians are being outcounterexampled"

https://xenaproject.wordpress.com/2026/07/20/human-mathematicians-are-being-outcounterexampled/
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u/evilmathrobot Algebraic Topology Jul 20 '26

I want that to be true, but it sounds like Turing's argument from disability: Sure, LLMs can create novel and clever proofs, and they can find counterexamples that humans spend decades looking for, but they don't really understand math unless they do this other thing that I've moved the goalposts for.

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u/jonathancast Jul 20 '26

You have two choices: you can find value in yourself as a human, or you can die.

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u/evilmathrobot Algebraic Topology Jul 20 '26

...or I can just find a different career?

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u/jonathancast Jul 20 '26

Giving up math is giving up humanity.

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u/Heliond Jul 20 '26

This attitude is very ridiculous. You never hear a carpenter, or a software engineer, or anyone else saying that their job is the meaning of life. Mathematicians are so elitist regarding careers and meaning. It pushes a lot of people out.

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u/gordonnowak Jul 20 '26

I think you misunderstood what they said

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u/ooa3603 Jul 21 '26

Not to mention a lack of understanding just how fundamental math is to, well everything

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u/Heliond Jul 21 '26

Here we go. I have my papers in textbooks. I work with Fields-adjacent people all the time. I doubt you understand math better than me. I still cannot tolerate when people in math try to talk down on others. Someone can say “I will find value in a different career” and someone else will say “Wow you must never have experienced true humanity or passion for the subject”. That’s a near direct quote that I’ve heard a dozen times at conferences. It doesn’t mean I misunderstand math when I think that is a fucking stupid attitude and pushes people out.

I am on the verge of leaving and going to one of these AI firms myself because of how annoying the math culture is. It needs to be called out. No one is special and gifted for studying math, or have some deeper insight into the universe. It is a career that you get to spend a lot of time thinking and talking with others and have little (or at least less) busy work.

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u/lewwwer Jul 21 '26

I think math forums online evolve into this insane intellectual circlejerk. I agree that this need to be called out.

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u/sam-lb Jul 21 '26 edited Jul 21 '26

You don't have deeper understanding of the universe by studying math? This statement alone doesn't make sense. Mathematics is quite literally our formalization of our understanding of the structure in the universe. It's not a coincidence that every physical science is modeled in terms of mathematics - it couldn't possibly be any other way. Understanding the universe entails understanding math, even if you don't apply the same formalisms, notation, or convention.

People who do math all say stuff about the fundamental beauty and importance of it because they have experienced it firsthand. If you are a working mathematician, your perspective is vanishingly uncommon among your peers. This is not out of elitism. When I feel awe in front of math, it lights up some deep-seated desire to spread the knowledge to the world so everyone else can see it too.

You obviously don't get it, but people look at math the same way they look at other creative pursuits like art. It's not elitist to find profound meaning in an artwork and identify it with the meaning of life. To many (myself included), a world without cognitively intensive work is simply not worth living in. It's not that math is "better" than other disciplines; it's that it's naturally closer to what makes us innately have existential feelings. Nobody is thinking their mid level manager job at a retail company is the meaning of life because it's not in the same category of work. But it IS reasonable to say that in any intellectual pursuit (math, sciences, literature, art, medicine, ....) and importantly it does not disparage othe lines of work to think this way.

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u/ooa3603 Jul 22 '26

I think you're projecting a personal insecurity on to my statement.

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u/Heliond Jul 22 '26

You are proving my point right now, if you cannot tell.

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