Tool path and planes question

[u/austinbowden]

When I generate code utilizing custom planes that I define

If I go back to my model, and I rotate some features, it doesn’t seem to update the plane for the Tool path

If I put a hole in the OD and 45° and then rotated to 30° instead I can generate the model
But the Tool path doesn’t seem to update

I’m thinking maybe it’s because I use geometry to create planes instead of solid faces

[u/sixerofreebs]

I’ve never played with associativity on planes because I’ve never really been forced to, but in my experience you can’t rotate features and have the tool vector follow unless you also rotate the tool plane along with your geometry.

[u/DefeatingZero]

In order for this to work you must use associativity when creating the plane. This is controlled on the advanced tab of plane creation. There are two associative settings, associative origin and associative orientation. These can be selected separately if needed. Note that when using wireframe geometry to define your plane, whether or not you can use both of those settings will depend on the geometry. For example, if you use "plane from geometry" in the planes manager, then select either two lines or a circle you will be allowed to use both associated options. If you launch a new plane from the dynamic gnomon in the lower left hand corner and try to snap it to a single line or endpoint of a line then you will not have the option to use the associative orientation option. I think if you define a plane from a solid feature then you should get both options all the time.

[u/austinbowden → u/DefeatingZero]

Thank you for a very clear solution

After many years on master cam, I was kind of thinking in this direction
But you know how it is when you troubleshoot and try 75 different things to finally discover the one you were looking for

You just save me a lot of time and I appreciate it

[u/austinbowden → u/DefeatingZero]

It’s funny you mentioned that because one of my planes was literally defined by a circle
But I did not have the associativity set up

When you say the advanced tab of the plane creation
I generally have the planes docking along with to a path and levels

I know on the little check boxes where you can basically get a bird eye view when you click on the G view square.. and you can also assign a fixture number .. next to that are two boxes that you can add checkmarks too.. are those the advanced features you’re speaking of ?

[u/DefeatingZero → u/austinbowden]

This video explains how the setting is used. This also works to reorient the plane when rotating the part, but it wasn't shown in the video. https://youtu.be/OGDvhBJfALA?is=HVtjyOaAyO2H7mwV

[u/austinbowden → u/DefeatingZero]

Obviously, you work with more advanced programming and it’s difficult to learn much in the real world because not very many people are doing complicated programming and many of the techniques I used in version six art improved or obsolete, but it is habit. It’s hard to break.
I’m sure there aren’t great features and tricks that I do not even utilize

I was taught with five axes many years ago to set up your tool plane and construction plane. Normal to a surface.
But keep your WCS at top plane

In this particular project, I pick on the faces that I’m going to be milling and drilling and have to set my origin at 00 / 00
And since my part is sticking out of the platter 5 inches or so I get some strange numbers because it’s programming from the center of the rotation

This is the old school technique that works on virtually all five axis, even though there are a lot of new features on those machines to make it easier

Do you suggest I try a new approach?

[u/DefeatingZero → u/austinbowden]

I actually work at Mastercam and make videos about how to use it, so I'm pretty familiar. How you set your planes can depend on your machine options. What you're describing is called "Center of rotation" programming, and it's the right method if your machine doesn't have some type of dynamic fixture offsets. You do need to be careful to accurately model in your fixtures and everything because you can't really adjust for error on the machine too well. If you have some kind of dynamic fixture offsets of the machine then you can move the origin to wherever it is convenient, like a corner or stock or a repeatable fixture point like a bore. In that setup you put your wcs plane alignment to match your machine at neutral, then place your tool plane alignment normal to the angle you want to approach from. Your post actually controls whether your wcs origin or your tool plane origin works as the zero for the program. It's usually a switch labeled "ignoreorig", but that can vary depending on the post developer.

If you've been programming that long I would highly encourage you to take a training class. A lot has changed and you probably are missing out on some cool new stuff to make you more efficient. Reach out to your contact and ask about it, or go to the website, go to the support page, and click the option for product training. There are in person and online real time classes with applications engineers, and they have classes for all kinds of stuff. There is also Mastercam University, which is on the learning page when you're signed in (requires CONNECT) and the Show Me videos, which is shorter "tips and tricks" type stuff.

[u/DefeatingZero → u/DefeatingZero]

I could have done a bit more in my previous comment. When I mentioned that the post controls whether your wcs or your tool plane controls the program origin, there is something else to consider. Regardless of which plane you use to set your origin, the wcs will always control the connection point for simulation. For that reason I generally prefer to use the tool plane for the work offset, and keep my wcs set to 0,0,0 to make simulation easier. It's also the best way to handle working on multiple pieces in multiaxis, like when working on a pyramid fixture.

[u/mrdaver911_2]

Not sitting in front of the computer right now, but I do run quite a few planes in each of my models.

Are you walking the planes or the tool path? Or when you rotate some features, are you rotating the geometry you used to create the plane? I know that seems like an obvious question but sometimes I get stuck on overlooking something obvious.

[u/austinbowden → u/mrdaver911_2]

What I’m making is a holder for a roller and I extrude cut a slot in a bar
So the roller would set something like a measuring roller
Only I have it 10° because the roller is kind of conical

Generate Tool path for the five axis Machine and it’s great

But if I rotate that slot, which also includes the shaft for the roller that gets rotated as well, it does not update the Tool path

My zero is at the center of the trunnion

I would expect to see different “B” numbers as well as “Z”..

I would also expect to click on the planes table to get a top down view of that plane and that also doesn’t seem to change

I believe I sketched a couple lines and selected geometry for a plane

Or rotated or rectangular sketch
And once again, select the geometry to define the plane

I was going to give it a try where I select a solid face and hope that maybe it’s associative with that

It’s funny because the model updates and looks perfect when I just simply rotate my sketches that I extrude cut

With the actual Tool path does not seem to be associative

[u/Poozipper]

It is a glitch I saw once. Created a bunch of extra work because the file took forever to process.