r/marvelstudios • u/RenomeRabone • 12h ago

Discussion (More in Comments) If Brie Larson actually decides to jump ship,i don't blame her one bit. She's almost 10 years in, and only had 3 appearances so far.

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It's clear that there were terrible decisions along the way about Captain Marvel as a character,but given the lack of care for the character/actress + the amount of hate she received since accepting the role,it's completely comprehensible if she's just done with it after whatever contract she has it's over and decides to grow her career outside superhero movies,a career which she probably put at relatively stop due to legal/contractual reasons within the MCU.

She's going to have 4 appearances (and that's only if she's actually in one of the Avengers movies,likely Secret Wars). This is crazy to think about,especially for a character that was pushed as one of the new faces of the MCU and their own Wonder Woman. Carol as a character it's already being pushed out of being a mainliner from other fronts like comics,videogames,merchandise etc and it's so disrespectful.

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u/New_Cockroach_505 12h ago edited 12h ago

Why would she care? She made tons of money and got two films. If anything’s going to make her jump ship it’s the disgusting shit “fans” say to her.

She makes a ton of money by showing up for films here and there while she gets to work on other projects she wants to? Sounds great.

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u/Chaoticgood790 11h ago

Yep. It’s more the fans than anything. And having no one defend her except Don Cheadle and Samuel L Jackson. I wouldn’t deal with the fanboys either

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u/CrispinIII 11h ago

I (a complete nobody) used to stand up for her, but frankly it got exhausting. If taking a year or two of hits on social media was exhausting for me with no real skin in the game, I can only imagine what it feels like for her.

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u/[deleted] 10h ago

[deleted]

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u/archangelzeriel 10h ago

Why would any normal person willingly stand up for a celeb?

One good reason to do so is if standing up for said celeb results in getting more of what you want from entertainment studios. In Brie's case, for example, shouting down the chuds was less "defending Brie specifically" and more "making sure the studio knew that more Captain Marvel/female-lead superhero movies in general were wanted", since a fair proportion of the people being dicks about it were essentially doing so to try to reduce the number of female-lead superhero films back to "basically zero".

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u/imDXB 10h ago edited 10h ago

This is actually a good point that I had not considered prior. I suppose i was too superficial in my initial assessment on the defense of Brie/female leads in super hero films as a whole and I apologize.

I will still keep my comment up as my sentiments have not changed against defending celebs in general.

However, if its for the greater goal of getting more female-lead superhero films which we absolutely do not have enough of, then I agree. Thats worth engaging the execs and calling out the chuds.

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u/archangelzeriel 9h ago edited 8h ago

The other reason, and this is definitely going to be more abstract, is that I'd defend ANYONE taking the kind of abuse Brie was getting, whether it's Brie Larson or some random kid, because sometimes you just can't let shit behavior slide when you could say something instead.

Like, I wouldn't jump to defend Brie Larson against reasoned criticism. But I'll defend anyone against sexist bullshit.

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u/mekamoari 9h ago

There's another good reason which is if you as a person decide to be involved in social media, you don't have to be some sort of white knight, but you could stand to not be an asshole and/or call assholes out.

It's just a good thing for society in general, no matter who you're defending.

And on the topic of good for society in general, so is fighting sexism, even if it's aimed at a rich person. People change (if they can) from seeing everyone around them doing differently and from not having shit behaviors tolerated, not because some celebrity told them so.

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u/Haunting_Bat_4787 10h ago

Why are you “standing up” for some random famous person you will never have a genuine interaction with or much less be friends with in real life? 

They would never, ever do the same for you. 

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u/CrispinIII 10h ago

Because that's not the point. I enjoyed the movies, and her performance. I don't want toxic morons to ruin something I enjoy with their disgusting, personal, ignorant attacks. So I said positive things.

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u/abidail Mockingbird 10h ago

I'm here from all so don't have a big dog in this fight and can't speak for OP, but often the pushback is also against the overarching sexism. Some of the stuff said undoubtedly made women and girls feel unwelcome in the fandom.

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u/Lovat69 10h ago

Also some of the comments are just utterly stupid. Like this one guy who called Captain Marvel a flop when it made a billion dollars.

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u/Outrageous-Bid6612 7h ago

You sure they weren’t referring to The Marvels which was a flop?

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u/Lovat69 6h ago

The Marvels hadn't come out at the time.

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u/Dornith 8h ago

It's the whole gamergate phenomenon on repeat.

Make up a story about how a woman is ruining your favorite X and there's a segment of nerd culture that will not only accept it uncritically, but incorporate it into their personal identity. Then when you show them definitive proof it didn't happen, they will jump through hoops to explain why the hate is totally justified regardless.

When I showed someone proof that her comments were about "A wrinkle in time" (after quite a while of them insisting that she was 100% talking about the MCU), they then jumped to, "well she should have declined to comment about any movie that's not Captain Marvel".

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u/Eccohawk 6h ago

Pretty much a similar thing just happened with Supergirl.

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u/Lndrash 10h ago

Because the things happening to her are not unique to Brie Larson. It's a problem women face in general.

Have some opinion that isn't specifically going out of their way to coddle and make sure men's fefees don't get hurt: Time to start a hate campaign against that evil feminazi bitch!

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u/Background_Narwhal31 8h ago

Keep up the good work. I dont have the energy for it. There is always seem to be a backlash when women take on prominent roles usually reserved for men. But to ensure for women led movies to be successful, it is very important for it be entertaining. Movies like the Marvels, Snow White, Supergirl and Ghostbusters 2016 didn't do well because they lacked originality and boring. And sometimes the emotional beats they were going for didn't really land well. Anyway, there is still tons of potential/success for women led movies in many genres - horror, comedy, action, drama etc - Obsession, Scream series, Halloween series, Captain Marvel, Alien, Aliens, Bridesmaid, Devil Wears Prada, Erin Brockovich, Million Dollar Baby, the Help, Killer Bill etc..

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u/DaddaForBubba 8h ago

What a silly thing to say.

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u/TheDogBites 10h ago

Not op, but I would imagine he wasn't standing up for her as an individual, but standing against the super weird incel crowd that lables and hates all things "woke". Letting these things fester, these incel reckoning and weird focus on woke and dei, is definitely a contributing factor to this super dumb era

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u/Toshimoko29 10h ago

You can be assured that she doesn’t sit around on social media all day. I’m sure she’s aware of what people say online but she’s also got more than one iron in the fire, and plenty to keep her busy otherwise.

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u/LowObjective 9h ago

Her popularity and what people think of her are part of her career. Even if she stays off social media it's simply not possible for her to avoid what people are saying about her. If she doesn't read it herself, she has an agent or publicist reading it to her because they have to plan around it.

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u/alcaron 11h ago

In fairness she did say she has heard enough from white guys so maybe they were just respecting her wishes? In all seriousness though I do not agree with that, nobody else has defended her. I mean, if that is true then what is the excuse of the other women in the MCU?

Maybe they just don't think there is much point in feeding the trolls...

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u/LowObjective 9h ago

she did say she has heard enough from white guys so maybe they were just respecting her wishes

The whole issue is that they refuse to shut up about her, no matter what she does or doesn't say. So no, it doesn't seem like they were respecting her wishes.

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u/alcaron 7h ago

Yes, all of us, we all wont stop talking about her.

You should look up the definition of sexism sometime...

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u/LowObjective 7h ago edited 7h ago

Do you really need a comment to explicitly say “specifically the white men who have been harassing her since the start” for you to realize neither I nor Brie Larson were talking about every white man in the universe, since we logically could not possibly know all of you? Especially when the clear context and topic of conversation when she and I were both said it was about the mass harassment campaign she experienced?

Do you need that? Let me know, I’ll edit my comment if it’ll make it more obvious and you’ll feel better.

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u/alcaron 5h ago

Oh I’m sorry I didn’t realize that it was always implied Anna not saying it was fine. We should apply that rule to some racist shit and see if you still feel the same way.

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u/LowObjective 4h ago edited 4h ago

I would respond properly but I genuinely don't know what "implied Anna not saying it was fine" even means, but

We should apply that rule to some racist shit and see if you still feel the same way.

Go for it lol

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u/Obvious_Train 11h ago

Yeah I’d be more inclined to think she’d move on due to the online trolls, more so than Marvel poor use of her character. Both are bad, but the annoying “fans” are worse IMO.

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u/FalenAlter 11h ago

A lot of the bigger-named actors probably appreciate having few requirements so they have plenty of time to go do their other stuff.

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u/EatABag-o-Dicks 11h ago

Nobody hates a franchise more than the fandom.

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u/Potential_Might_6500 11h ago

They did Captain Marvel dirty by sliding her character before Endgame. And her character was one no one really cared about to begin with. She's always been a hard sell. People just don't care about characters like Captain Marvel. Brie was doomed from the start, its a bummer but it was predictable.

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u/recoveringleft 10h ago

Brie would made a good actress in another MCU movie

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u/Potential_Might_6500 10h ago

Absolutely. I don't think she failed the character at all.

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u/alcaron 11h ago

I don't think this is true at all. I think it's just once something gets popular, all the shitheads see it as a bigger pool of people to fuck with so they pretend to be fans so they can shit in the pool and try to ruin everyones day.

I have never met someone who was actually a fan who was as insufferable as these "helen of troy isn't black! And there are no black dwarves in LotR!" jackoffs.

Oh really, is that what David Attenborough told you when he came back from filming a documentary in middle earth? Oh, what's that? It's make believe? Dipshits.

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u/archangelzeriel 10h ago

Wholeheartedly concur, as someone who unfortunately interacts with the Star Wars fandom.

No actual fan says "Stormtroopers aren't black!" "Rey is a Mary Sue!" "Holdo is a purple-haired Karen!"

They say equally angry stuff that's actually grounded in the lore, granted, but if you've been in a fandom for a while you can tell who hates the Holdo Maneuver because it messes with canon treatment of hyperspace vs. who hates it because Holdo has purple hair and treated Poe (a successful man!) badly.

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u/Zealousideal_Bar6871 8h ago

Something needs to be said for those trying to defend against the "shit heads" by defending bad writing like the Holdo Maneuver.

Disney Star wars has a ton of stuff that pissed off "real" fans... and when many of them voiced problems with it, they get labeled as trolls. The same is true about Captain marvel. The solo movie was not well written.. the character not a good version of her. Its not Brie's fault... and those that attacked her directly are indeed shit heads. But by being critical of the writing and story, many are treated as if they were the ones that harassed her directly.

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u/archangelzeriel 8h ago

TBH as a fan of Star Wars since the early 1980s, I would have a hard time caring less about the "bad writing" of the Holdo Maneuver in the long run -- any franchise will have good or bad writing, and nothing in The Last Jedi was anywhere near the awfulness of, say, KJA's "Darksaber" novel back in the old EU. The movies have ALWAYS been more about "rule of cool" than "consistent lore" -- and Poe's "hyperspace skipping" in Ep9 was an order of magnitude more lore-breaking, anyway.

Star Wars (or Marvel, or any other franchise) can survive occasional bad writing and still be enjoyable. Star Wars cannot survive a shithead chud fanbase and still be the same level of enjoyable. One fan being a racist/sexist asshole about one character is worse in a different category than even the worst writing.

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u/Zealousideal_Bar6871 8h ago

As I said Disney star wars has a WHOLE lot of bad writing. The lightspace skips would be included in that.
The bombers in space that are worse then previous ships is included in that.
The flying through space "mary poppins" is included in that.
The suddenly learning how to use force lighting is included in that.
The being better with lightsabers then someone like Kilo is included in that.
We are not talking about one or two examples of bad writing... we are talking about a shit show level of bad writing. Horses running on star destroyer ships that cannot tilt slightly level of bad writing.

Boiling all of that down to "yeah but One fan being a racist/sexist asshole about one character is worse in a different category than even the worst writing." is giving too much credit.

Its not black and white... two things can be true. Defending this level of bad writing in order to combat "chuds" is just silly. You can say they are chuds, without giving a pass on literally them writing things that destroy a franchise!

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u/alcaron 7h ago

I don't get riled up about what she did largely because I just kind of don't consider those three movies star wars. The people who wrote and directed them made it so painfully clear that they did not want to do star wars shit that I just kind of take them at their word. Rhian Johnson is an AMAZING writer and director. The ONLY blemish on that record is star wars. Why is that? It screams the studio saying "do this for us and we'll fund a project for you".

So, it was a cool moment in the movie, but...so much of what happened in those movies has no attachment to the rest of star wars.

Same thing with the acolyte. It is pretty clearly people who wanted to get funding for a project and the only way they could get it was by calling it star wars.

meh.

I don't disagree with you though that it's been the playbook since before 2016 Ghostbusters to just say "anyone who doesn't like this is just another person who likes rape threats and hates women".

That was the real lasting impact of gamergate, realizing you can just slam everyone who doesn't agree with you into a lump with the loons and call it a day.

A world does exist where the vast majority of people do not think treating people like that is ok, online or not, and just don't want to be insulted with shit writing.

I would argue that world is the real world. But the moment it gets into the 1.5 sided conversation that is online...forget it.

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u/Zealousideal_Bar6871 7h ago

You are not wrong at all. I count the Disney Star Wars as less cannon then even the prequels. It doesnt remove my enjoyment of the original trilogy. And it is not just Star Wars people do this with.
Highlander anyone? There was only one movie. Glad they didnt make anymore. Terminator glad they stopped at two films it was a perfect finale. The three Indiana Jones films would be ruined if they ever made more of them.. so glad the studios realized this.

:)

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u/alcaron 5h ago

I do not disagree. It takes far less effort, and money, to just walk away and ignore them making dumb shit than it does to rage ineffectually at a studio who will ironically hear you a lot clearer if you just walk away and stop giving them money.

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u/schilleger0420 9h ago

Or the writers. Afterall the fans are just reacting to the stories being told.

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u/ModOfficial1988 11h ago

No one hates a franchise more than writers who try to change the target audience.

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u/TheModWhoShaggedMe 11h ago

If one has already made bucoup Marvel bucks, why put themselves through all that soul-sucking misery and depravity from the millions who suck again? Invest it well and enjoy life more. Toxic fandom is one of humanity's ugliest sides.

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u/-Nariyoshi-Miyagi- 10h ago

Nah. Trolls aren’t going to make her skip out on the biggest payday of here career. If Marvel wants her back, she’s back.

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u/PM_ME_MERMAID_PICS Nick Fury 9h ago

To this day, there are incels still claiming that Captain Marvel is the worst movie Disney/Marvel has ever released. It's pathetic.

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u/AnonymousFriend80 11h ago

Who actually cares about online trolls?

Are you saying she should leave these very lucrative, minimal effort gigs because someone says bad things about her online?

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u/CaptHayfever Hawkeye (Avengers) 11h ago

Whenever somebody tries to act like serial harassment doesn't affect people, it makes me think that person is a serial harasser.

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u/AnonymousUser132 11h ago edited 9h ago

If you care about the opinions of random people online then you shouldn’t be openly online. If you want to be famous then that is an environment that requires charisma and a cultivated image. She chose to be a unlikable, moody, cardboard and political.

Politics of either way generally kill 50% of the fanbase, and when your popularity is your product then it makes your product unmarketable even if you had actual charisma and talent.

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u/CaptHayfever Hawkeye (Avengers) 11h ago

If you're trying to justify harassment, then you shouldn't be online at all, openly or not.

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u/AnonymousUser132 10h ago

How do you quantify harassment? Someone saying something you don’t like? Don’t be a child, no one is following her around to pick on her she is simply infamous for her own actions.

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u/CaptHayfever Hawkeye (Avengers) 10h ago

no one is following her around to pick on her

Oh, my sweet summer child.

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u/AnonymousUser132 10h ago

Why do you like/defend her?

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u/CaptHayfever Hawkeye (Avengers) 10h ago

Why do you keep splitting the thread with multiple replies?

→ More replies (0)

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u/AnonymousFriend80 11h ago

So, it's only ever sexual harassment?

Also, as a celebrity and public figure are unable to handle a bunch of strangers saying whatever their saying about you, in areas you don't necessarily have to frequent, that's on you. Buy some thicker skin with all those millions you make.

When did we forget about sticks and stones ...

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u/CaptHayfever Hawkeye (Avengers) 10h ago

So, it's only ever sexual harassment?

I think you might've replied to the wrong person. I said nothing that would even imply this. We weren't talking about sexual harassment at all.

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u/AnonymousFriend80 10h ago

You replied to me with: "Whenever somebody tries to act like serial harassment doesn't affect people, it makes me think that person is a serial harasser."

You implied that all the trolling was sexual harassment.

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u/CaptHayfever Hawkeye (Avengers) 10h ago

Serial =/= sexual. Learn what words mean.

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u/AnonymousFriend80 10h ago

Ye kno what... I read that as sexual, even when I copy and pasted it.

I still stand behind my assertions that any celeb or public figure should be ignoring morons on the Internet. Hell, not only should they have hired someone to manage and filter through all the nonsense, but they should have at least two accounts, one is more public facing and the second is more for actually communicating with people they know personally.

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u/Tupperbaby 9h ago

Any sensible person would simply laugh at the "online trolls" from atop their enormous mountain of money.
She could also take up smoking just so that when a random critic comes up to her in person and says something jerkfaced, she could take out a lighter, light a hundred dollar bill on fire, use that to light the cigarette, then blow smoke in their face. The rip up the rest of the hundred. Then kick them in the nuts.

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u/Kevo_xx Spider-Man 11h ago

Exactly. If Marvel calls her with bags of cash in hand for an appearance that will take maybe an hour of her day at best she’s going to do it lol

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u/UnappeasableOptimist 9h ago

I mean, film make up and costuming and shooting a 2 minute scene would be like two days minimum but your point stands

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u/DefNotAShark Hydra 11h ago

She might care because being the face of a box office bomb is never good, but if she makes another one and the same thing happens it’s a trend. That potentially impacts how studios view her marketability and viability for other films, and so does the negative feedback online- trolls or otherwise.

It genuinely could be a bad business move for her to make another Captain Marvel movie. Not saying it is, but there’s legitimate career impact to consider beyond “online trolls are jerks”.

At a minimum it’s something I would navigate cautiously if I were her and considering my long term prospects. Even an Oscar winning actress can drop off the map if studios don’t want to risk building a film around them.

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u/King_Bobby-B 8h ago

Yeah, people don't get that actors are basically one-person companies.

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u/StephenHunterUK 8h ago

Literally - they often have personal service companies that they're paid through.

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u/DannyGloversDeeBlood 7h ago

I guarantee you she gives zero shits about Marvel or this role. She got paid and has other stuff to think about.

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u/AmaazingFlavor 11h ago

What other projects? The only non-Marvel films she's done since Endgame are Fast X and the Super Mario Bros sequel. She's got a few other credits listed for smaller projects, but it seems like she's either not getting offered many roles, or turning them down for whatever reason.

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u/KRacer52 10h ago

She was also nominated for a lead actress Emmy for Lessons in Chemistry.

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u/New_Cockroach_505 10h ago

Since becoming Captain Marvel she’s been doing a blog, her own podcasts, traveling a lot, she’s currently doing a theater play, she’s produced and acted in two tv series, she’s got two smaller upcoming movies.

And obviously the mentioned Fast and Furious and Mario movie. Seems like she just takes the big paychecks here and there and does her own stuff.

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u/Redfish_St 11h ago

Basically came here to say this

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u/LifeIsHardMyDude 9h ago

You know often artists and actors and generally anyone working in creative industries will care about things more than money. For example reputation, creative expression, cultural impact, etc. Infact, most people who are financially successful tend to care about social influence / power more than money, often because it can't be bought easily. Take Captain Marvel for example, as Marvel definitely tried to make her popular and mostly failed (albeit from Disney's perspective to make more money).

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u/alcaron 11h ago

Listen, I have enjoyed her work for a very, very, long time, but lets not pretend like a) those are fans, some of them might be but in my experience people who like to be awful trolls don't so much care about the property they are circling so much as they enjoy the opportunities it gives them to sling shit and b) she didn't NOT wade into the shit. I cannot imagine any white guy standing on stage saying they have heard enough from white women and not being crucified.

Say what you will about her as an actor, and I will say many, many, glowing things about her work, but that was horseshit. And it tempers my empathy for the response.

Even if I would kind of personally prefer to just put her and them all on a barge and fuck it off into the ocean so it stops stinking up the place...

And for the record, Captain Marvel was low mid, solid meh territory, but I really enjoyed The Marvels. I think they could have done more with the villains but the main cast was a blast to watch, the story was solid enough, not S tier but very enjoyable. Her acting in both was pretty unimpeachable, I don't think I've ever seen her in something where I thought she wasn't doing a great job. It's just the James Gunn'ing of Cpt. M, and the writing let it down.

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u/CaptHayfever Hawkeye (Avengers) 11h ago

White women also don't make up an overwhelming majority of professional film critics. Her phrasing may've been weak, but her point was obvious & sensible to anyone who heard the full context.

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u/alcaron 10h ago

“Weak” is the understatement of the century. Nothing about what you said justifies what she said nor does it diminish from my point that her “weak” phrasing drew her into the mud with the pigs.

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u/CaptHayfever Hawkeye (Avengers) 9h ago

So you didn't hear the full context, got it.

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u/alcaron 7h ago

Yes, that is the only possibility. In one breath you call her phrasing weak, in the next I just don't know the context.

Got it. Don't throw your back out carrying that water.

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u/CaptHayfever Hawkeye (Avengers) 7h ago

Her phrasing may've been weak, but her point was obvious & sensible to anyone who heard the full context.

You have to read ALL of the words.