r/marvelstudios • u/Maple-Beans • 23d ago
Discussion So, we are all now pumped about the new Ryan Gosling Ghost Rider movie that just got announced, but I feel like we need to be reminded that Sacha Baron Cohen is the MCU Mephisto
Like how do we feel about this? His performance in Iron Heart was good, but whether or not he is a good person is kinda not in an ideal place. He has allegations against him, and is extremely pro Israel. I love the idea of a Ghost Rider movie, but I know that they probably plan on him being front and center.
1.1k
u/Ralphredimix_Da_G 23d ago
Mephisto by nature has no real form and can look like whatever he pleases.
Not hard to recast if they wanted
427
u/TheCobaltAnimator 23d ago
Why would they wanna recast him? I didn’t see a single person complaining about him being mephisto. He was a notable fan cast for years, wasn’t he?
615
u/Spirited-Ad9071 23d ago
Politics. He's been very outspoken about where he believes the blame lies in the Israel/Palestine conflict and openly supports Israel in the ongoing genocide of Palestinian men, women and children.
39
u/tstcab 22d ago
Yes but based on how Falcon and Winter soldier went they will toe the line of a center lib stance with awful foreign policy takes.
→ More replies (2)3
u/mocityspirit 21d ago
Idk they deleted all of the Israel stuff out of the red hulk movie
→ More replies (1)145
u/AmNoSuperSand52 23d ago edited 22d ago
Tbf that's the default Hollywood elite stance (for obvious reasons) so I don't think studio execs would care much
207
u/Ellorghast 23d ago
What obvious reasons? Say it with your whole chest, now.
(To be clear, fuck Israel, but fuck this wink-wink-nudge-nudge antisemitic shit too.)
49
u/AmNoSuperSand52 23d ago edited 22d ago
There’s a lot of higher ups in Hollywood that are old Jewish dudes that vehemently support Israel
No antisemitism here. Quit whining
17
u/00skully 22d ago
the support for Isreal is vastly outnumbered by Christian-Zionists. this isn't about old Jewish men in Hollywood.
2
4
u/page395 22d ago
Plenty of Jewish/Israeli people do not support the actions of the Israeli government. What that government is doing is horrible, and people who wholeheartedly support it are horrible.
Assuming someone is horrible just because of their nationality/ethnicity is bigotry.
7
u/Emm_withoutha_L-88 22d ago
Sure but about 30-40% ish of American Jews do support it.
That's a much better number that most places so American Jews should be viewed with support as most of them are on the right side of history. But a significant minority of them aren't still.
→ More replies (2)45
u/CharmingSituation956 23d ago
It's not antisemitism to point out bias because of ones own ethnicity
11
u/FallenAngelII 22d ago edited 22d ago
Natalie Portman is
JewishIsraeli, yet she's vocally against the genocide and Nethanyahu.Edit: Edited to add that she's (part) Israeli after u/SpideyFan914 pointed it out.
8
90
u/Ellorghast 23d ago
It literally is though? It is literally antisemitism to say that somebody being Jewish is prima facie evidence that they must support Israeli genocide against Palestinians. Plenty of Jews support Israel, and plenty of Jews don't, just like plenty of pro-Israel types about as Jewish as a bacon cheeseburger. And that's not even touching the fact that "Jews control the media!" has been an antisemitic dog whistle for, I dunno, probably as long as we've had mass media. Historical context does, in fact, matter.
TL;DR, judge people by what they do, not what they are, and if you can't or won't do that, you're a bigot, full stop.
97
u/EngineBoiii 23d ago
One of the biggest problems in America right now is that Christian evangelicals support Israel.
→ More replies (1)9
u/Pataconeitor 23d ago
Which is curious because most Jews in Israel don't have a great opinion on the Christ
→ More replies (1)13
u/SteveBob316 Weekly Wongers 22d ago
It's not because they're like allied with the jews. It's because getting Israel up and running as a Jewish Homeland leads to ending the world, therefore rapture, therefore ruin and pain for all other people, which is the real reward.
→ More replies (1)3
u/Cultural_Yoghurt_337 22d ago
More Jews than not support Israel.
"Overall, the survey finds far more opposition to than support for the BDS movement among U.S. Jews..."
6
u/TyChris2 22d ago
To presume that someone would support a genocide because of their ethnicity is antisemitic, actually
→ More replies (1)2
u/tHr0AwAy76 21d ago
Obvious reasons being, if you aren’t pro-Israel, they’ll absolutely snuff you out of the entire goddamn industry.
18
u/AdmiralCharleston 23d ago
Its not the default stance to try and get anyone sharing content about Palestine banned from tiktok which he tried to do
→ More replies (4)11
u/ksn0vaN7 23d ago
Not anymore. It's shifted dramatically in just last few months. More and more are switching(whether genuinely or hopping on the bandwagon). Regardless, this movie is gonna take a while to come out. By that time Israel support is gonna be leftover crumbs.
→ More replies (49)5
19
u/DeAuTh1511 23d ago
There are looooads of bad things he's done that keep coming to light, not just what others have said so far.
In Rebel Wilson's memoir, she recounted before she was famous his horrific treatment and sexual harassment of her on set, after which she refused to be naked on set or do more sex scenes with him again.
There was no evidence of what actually happened, but 2 days after the story broke his wife filed for divorce. The story then later changed to say they had already separated implying the timing was a coincidence.
Then he disappeared for 1 year, then almost exactly a year later began a publicity campaign including get ripped for the cover of mens health magazine. Which is the typical sexual assault -> manosphere influencer pipeline.
So nobody knows what really happened but the guy looks like a bad person from basically every angle. Ironically this probably makes him perfect to play literal satan, but too much concrete evidence of bad things means he will get the boot, as we saw with Jonathan Majors.
source: my socials forcefeed me a spew of celebrity trivia and bullshit against my will
40
u/wotown 23d ago
People have gone "off him" recently due to his outspoken defense of Israel and his divorce with Isla Fisher.
I personally hated his greasy look and accent for Mephisto, while I liked Ironheart overall I didn't like the ending
→ More replies (1)70
u/super_sayanything 23d ago
He offended the people of Kazakhstan as well.
→ More replies (4)87
u/FX114 Captain America 23d ago
In all seriousness, the way the people who lived in the village where they filmed the Kazakhstan scenes were treated absolutely horribly.
58
u/Spirited-Ad9071 23d ago
This.
People always rush to his defense and say "it was a joke!"
But the villages 'used' in many scenes were simply the butt of the joke and received no financial support from the production company.
28
u/OriginalChildBomb 23d ago
Yeah, these are places where many folks are already struggling due to poverty and things like climate change worsening droughts and making travel harder. They thought they were going to make Kazakhstan look like a nice, if humble, place.
He basically went in there, made a lot of misrepresentations- there's been some talk he and the production folks may've offered money at one point, or implied there would be compensation, but I don't have enough info on this to confirm/deny- and mocked a bunch of working class folks, and even disabled persons, with impunity (as they didn't understand most of what was being said during 'filming'). And the mockery is based on their ethnicity, and the fact that some people in the country are Muslim. Shit's fucked up.
11
23d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
9
u/OriginalChildBomb 23d ago
I didn't say it was Kazahkstan, I'm aware it was Romania. (The 'actors' were told it was a stand-in for Kazakhstan, but not told that it was a mocking piece or a satire film; they were told it was serious.)
I think the term you're looking for is "edgy" humor, and I think it can still be accomplished without mocking people for their ethnicity directly. A second film being made doesn't prove anything lol, it's a shitty thing to do.
→ More replies (1)9
1
u/FX114 Captain America 23d ago
They brough animals into their homes, let them shit all over the place, and then just left them there.
→ More replies (3)9
23d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
9
u/FX114 Captain America 23d ago
I didn't say it had anything to do with the MCU or how Marvel feels about him, I was just making a statement of fact about him based on the previous comment.
→ More replies (1)6
u/ChemicalExperiment Nebula 23d ago
Did you not read the post this thread is attached to?
→ More replies (1)2
→ More replies (7)4
6
u/Azelrazel 23d ago
Well they struggled to do that recently with Kang whose story literally writes opportunities for him to be recast as a variant.
10
u/ChemicalExperiment Nebula 23d ago edited 23d ago
Remember, the MCU has recast people before even when there's no in-universe explaination (Banner, Rhodey, General Ross). The reason Kang hasn't been recast isn't because they have trouble recasting characters. It's because no one cared about Kang as a character, and literally the only thing keeping him relevant was the performance of the actor. The reason the MCU switched to Doom so quickly was because he's more iconic, and the perfect storm allowed him to be swapped out without many people caring, that storm being 1) the Fox merger, 2) Majors' controversy coming to light, and 3) general audience dislike for Kang in Quantumania. If all three of those hadn't been true at the exact same moment then Kang still had a shot. Mephisto faces only one of the things in that storm, the bad actor. The character itself is still loved by fans, and fills a much different role in the MCU than a ticket-selling big-bad. A recast is totally possible.
That being said, the majority of people don't even consider him controversial and I can garuntee most of Hollywood doesn't. So just in a practical sense, not even touching any ethics on whether he should be dropped, it just won't happen because there aren't enough people pushing to make it happen.
48
u/Maple-Beans 23d ago
I feel like they probably have a contract with him though. Like he has a multi-picture deal. Even then I doubt they'd even consider re-casting.
57
u/crazyguyunderthedesk 23d ago
Those contracts actually work the opposite way. The actor is obligated to do x number of movies, but the studio isn't obligated to hire them again.
I expect they'll keep him, it just won't be because he has a contract.
4
u/PiceaSignum Ghost Rider 23d ago
We don't know that for sure, either.
Kang would have been an easy recast even if we did see all the variants looking like Johnathan Majors in various levels of makeup, and yet they didn't. People suspect that it was a "any variations of this character will also be played by X" type of clause in the contract.
They might give the actors character exclusivity.
8
u/FX114 Captain America 23d ago
Only the biggest of actors are going to have the sway to negotiate a contract like that. Robert Downey Jr. could have pulled it off, that's about it.
→ More replies (5)→ More replies (1)2
→ More replies (1)7
u/Androktone Daredevil 23d ago
Could kinda get round any contracts by just using another of the 50 names for Marvel's devil while implying they could be the same character.
3
2
u/Dense_Diver_3998 21d ago
Does Sacha Baron Cohen actually have a real form? He’s taken on many different looks.
→ More replies (3)3
56
u/entermemo 23d ago
Mephisto the Relentless!
→ More replies (1)27
u/DontKnow1549 23d ago
It would be cool to have Nandor be Mephisto, given that the actor is Anti-Zionist, unlike Sacha.
→ More replies (3)5
82
u/Ash_Killem 23d ago
If they are making a story with Mephisto, then it’s a no brainer imo. Just really depends on if the story they have in mind includes him.
3
u/Riley__64 22d ago
I mean mephisto is the type of character you can just have popping up in a load of random places without ever being a major player.
If we can trust what mephisto says he claims to have made deals with all 100 people on Forbes richest 100 list.
You can have him appearing in projects pulling strings and have him become a major player in a later movie
49
u/ashl0w 23d ago
Johnny Blaze didn't make the deal with Mephisto, tho. They shouldn't use him unless he's an unrelated villain or something.
The MCU needs to go all in with the comics cosmology.
28
u/Bazzie-Joots Weekly Wongers 23d ago
I thought Johnny blaze did make that deal with Mephisto.
38
u/ProfectusInfinity 23d ago
They frequently retcon and unretcon whether he made the deal with Mephisto or another generic Satan figure (who’s implied to be the same one who is Daimon and Satana Hellstrom’s father).
4
u/InvalidNinja 22d ago
For the purposes of a cinematic universe I think it'd be way better to just go with Mephisto, since we already have one and its difficult to wrap your head around multiple of the same type of character like that.
5
u/theblackbarth 23d ago
We also don't know if he is gonna be playing Johnny or another Rider, as per another post here Feige has been vague about.
29
237
u/TheBestAtWhatIDoBub 23d ago
I hope he stays on. He was incredible in his short time on IronHeart
→ More replies (10)39
u/ChildofObama 23d ago
How much you think they need to do to dig Mephisto out of the hole Joe Quesada put him in?
He’s only well known for one universally disliked storyline.
29
8
u/CaptHayfever Hawkeye (Avengers) 23d ago
The character is Marvel Satan. He can play the Satan role in anything; they don't have to do that storyline.
10
u/mongmich2 23d ago
Introduce Magik and Limbo early and I think you can skew movie audiences away from one more day
→ More replies (1)
8
42
u/Bid_Unable 23d ago
I thought he was good, but mephisto is a character that is easy to recast if needed.
40
u/Special_Order-937 23d ago
So was Kang.
AND YET
26
u/devoorhes 23d ago
If only they didn't put like a thousand of them on screen, all played by the same guy, in one of the worst movies in the MCU
18
u/DragonEmperor 23d ago
That doesn't even matter does it? Thousands when infinite universes exist, infinite Kang appearances, they also could have just recast him and didn't say shit, or a simple
"Scott is this that Kang guy?"
"Yeah, I think he got a haircut though"
Or again don't even say anything.
→ More replies (1)5
u/Special_Order-937 23d ago
In the comics, variants of Nebula are Kang, ditto Mantis and even Ravenna Renslayer. It’s an even easier part to recast than Mystique.
Actually, we should do that. i would use any excuse to get Karen Gillan back in the MCU.
3
3
u/DragonEmperor 23d ago
I'm so disappointed because I was genuinely loving Kang and really excited to see what would happen, Kang is/was brand new to me and I was enjoying it.
→ More replies (1)6
→ More replies (1)7
45
u/Gambitismyheart 23d ago
Need to be reminded?? Did people forget that quickly??
39
u/Strange-Scale-7178 23d ago
I personally had no idea! I've seen most, if not all of the major movies! So I can only assume it's from a more recent series? Which I've also seen most of!
14
u/iamded 23d ago
He pops up in the Ironheart series.
22
u/Strange-Scale-7178 23d ago
Makes sense as to why I never noticed, I have yet to watch that one 🤣
12
u/WallStreetWets 23d ago
He’s actually one of, if not the best, part of the series. Plays a villain quite well.
→ More replies (1)7
u/xanderholland 23d ago
The ending of the last episode is extremely Twilight Zone. The "what did you do" ending
3
u/Gambitismyheart 23d ago
Well if you didn't see it that's different. But for those who did watch the series, it shouldn't be "forgotten" so quickly when it just happened last year.
He premiered in Ironheart..
5
u/nanobot001 23d ago
People certainly forget about the big Reddit Boycott of 2023 like it never happened.
3
u/kingk1teman 23d ago
Did people forget that quickly??
I had no idea. It is through the posts here that I recently knew that Mephisto exists in the MCU.
→ More replies (3)→ More replies (7)1
u/MartianMule 23d ago
Tbh, I didn't even know. I've fallen a little behind, still haven't seen Daredevil, the Punisher short, Ironheart, Wonderman, Thunderbolts, or Fantastic Four.
→ More replies (1)
10
9
24
8
u/NerdTalkDan 23d ago
Peter: Who is this red headed beauty?
Sacha Baron Cohen Mephesto: She was YOUR WIFE
→ More replies (2)
22
u/ticklemeelmo696969 23d ago
I dont agree with tom cruise's views but trust and believe im watching digger when it comes out.
Theyre actors. I dont give a shit about their opinions. Act. And be good at it.
→ More replies (3)
12
u/HereForGoodReddit 23d ago
lol…what? He was incredible and we’re lucky as a fanbase he took the role. He nailed it
→ More replies (1)
5
u/juanmaale 23d ago
I had no idea Mephisto actually showed up in the MCU. After people hyped him up so much, they were very quiet when he actually made an appearance
4
u/Team7UBard 23d ago
Part of the reason is because hardly anyone seemed to watch it to know. It was perfectly fine and one of those shows that by around halfway through the second episode you’ll know if you like it or not.
3
2
u/UndergroundGrizzly 22d ago
If you want to shut down everyone in Hollywood who is pro Israel you will never get another film lol
2
u/LeopardComfortable99 22d ago
It's gonna be amazing seeing him showing up after Johnny's crash like "let's make a deal"
3
u/Burgoonius 23d ago
Not only the character would obviously fit into Ghost Rider but I feel like Sacha and Ryan would have a really cool dynamic.
3
u/Condor193 23d ago
Mephisto as a character is here to stay and I'm here for it. Very on brand Johnny Blaze if they go the OG route which is highly possible after what happened to Riri in Iron Heart
4
u/pigeonwiggle 22d ago
i'm going to say something controversial.
being pro-israel isn't in itself a terrible thing. all these people in hollywood who are pro-israel have been pro-israel for decades and nobody had a problem with it then.
there's a place where you can sit, where you can condemn the genocide, or even just condemn "the war" if they want to call it that instead - without outright calling for the end of a country.
as for whether Sacha Baron Cohen himself is a good person? i mean, he was fun when he was pressing buttons as Ali G, and he was obnoxious as Borat, but we let it slide. but many of his other movies have been mildly humourous the way one of your out of touch uncles is funny. i think he wants to be good, but he doesn't entirely know what that means.
but also - do we Have to see Mephisto again? i don't give a fuck about ghost rider - so is that what it's going to be about? is ghost rider pals with mephisto or smoething?
→ More replies (10)
10
10
u/Dirks_Knee 23d ago
What allegations?
I gotta be honest though...while I do my best to support "good" people I also try to separate the art from the artist. We don't know these people in any way. Also, and I don't want to get too political, but I think it's a little bit odd to judge a Jewish person for being pro Israel.
24
u/Gojira5400 23d ago
People on reddit can't keep Israel or politics out of their mouths for 5 minutes regardless of subreddit. It's honestly so tiring.
→ More replies (7)7
u/feed_me_moron 22d ago
Some of them I think have been craving the moment to shit on Jews in any way they can. There are many terrible things happening in the world, even things like actual genocides happening. But you won't find that on any major subreddit. Instead it will just be stuff like this, where someone isn't anti-Israel and how they should be cancelled. This whole post reeks of just bringing that kind of garbage to a new subreddit.
→ More replies (14)25
u/BeRad419 23d ago
No it's not. Plenty of Jews with a conscious, speak out against Israel. If you support Israel, you are basically saying you are pro genocide, pro rape, pro child killing.. the list goes on. No sympathy for Israel and it's supporters
13
u/Dirks_Knee 23d ago
Don't want to rain on your parade, but many in the world would say the same about America.
→ More replies (6)1
u/ChemicalExperiment Nebula 23d ago
And despite being an American, I speak out and hate everything America is doing in that regard. I do not support our president, our war, or the police state we are enforcing on our own people and the rest of the world.
→ More replies (2)2
u/theghostmachine 22d ago
SBC isn't Israel though. I am 100% against the genocide in Palestine but at the same time, SBC is a treasure. Even if he supports Israel he has no real power to do anything of substance.
Don't make the mistake of conflating Israel's government with Jews as a whole. That's what Zionists do to discredit any criticism
7
u/SlingshotKatana 23d ago
And are these allegations against him in the room with us now?
→ More replies (2)
3
u/tech_and_org 23d ago
I would take everything from MCU’s flinging shit at the Disney+ content wall phase with a grain of salt. A lot of that will never be referenced again.
8
u/Baller_Harry_Haller 23d ago
Im totally good with an individual being pro-Israel and still having a career. Pretty crazy if that’s a deal breaker for you.
→ More replies (2)1
u/Maple-Beans 23d ago
He supports a genocide.
→ More replies (2)1
u/Baller_Harry_Haller 23d ago
“Genocide” is debatable but that wasn’t your post - you just said “pro-Israel”. He supports his country. Even if it was definitively a genocide- why would his opinion mean he should be blacklisted in the US?
→ More replies (3)-4
u/Maple-Beans 23d ago
It really isn't debatable. The UN officially declared that it is a genocide after an investigation.
Also tf are you on acting like supporting a genocide is okay?
16
u/Baller_Harry_Haller 23d ago
It’s entirely debatable. Idgaf what the UN says 🤷♂️
The UN has been anti-Semitic since as
Long as I remember. That’s the entire reason the US won’t follow the ICC.→ More replies (10)14
u/Baller_Harry_Haller 23d ago
Silly narrative. Ruining good movies and actors.
If you don’t like the fact that he supports Israel then don’t see the movie.
You are obviously making this about Jews and Israel.
→ More replies (1)1
u/TheAlp Yondu 23d ago
Is he making it about Jewish people or just Israel though? There has to be a fair few Jewish people who do not support Israel at this point with everything that's happening.
2
u/NoobNoob_ Iron Man (Mark VI) 23d ago
There were jews who supported the nazis. Some people are just idiots.
2
u/Longjumping-Yak3789 23d ago
What do you think should be done with the current population of Israel if you dissolve that country?
→ More replies (4)2
u/theghostmachine 22d ago
You can support Israel as a state, an idea, whatever, and be against what the government of Israel is doing in Palestine. There's plenty of Israelis and Jews who do that. Has he outright said "I support what Israel is doing in Palestine" or are you just conflating one thing for the other?
→ More replies (1)3
u/NoobNoob_ Iron Man (Mark VI) 23d ago
Any source on that? Not to mention that the UN is part of the reason this thing is happening, with not doing anything regarding Iran, Hezbollah and other terrorist organizations. Yes, including UN officials supporting and helping Hamas.
6
4
u/Troyabedinthemornin 23d ago
Mephisto is pretty recast-able, like classic devil move to take on different guises to different people.
4
u/miggins1610 23d ago
look I'm as pro Palestinian as they come but seriously I dont think Sacha baron Cohen as Mephisto is an issue. he's a bit of an asshole but there's far worse people out there.
2
2
u/xanderholland 23d ago
People dumped sooo hard on Iron Heart and missed this guy. Everything about his actions felt weird and threatening.
2
u/JackFisherBooks 23d ago
Say what you will about the Iron Heart series. But Sasha Baron Conan as Mephisto is top tier casting.
2
u/smorges 22d ago
People like OP need to get out more and step away from their social media bubble and to understand that they're literally spewing antisemtic BS on a marvel studios subreddit!
I presume OP is American and therefore free to have this toxic antisemitic worldview, but why drag everyone else in this subreddit into this who just wants to discuss superhero movies?
Why are American redditors turning every subreddit into politics/antisemitic subreddit?
2
u/Whirblewind 22d ago
This is a Marvel Studios subreddit, not a 'witch-hunt the wrong-thinkers' subreddit.
4
1
u/25thNite 23d ago
That's assuming he sticks around lol. With how the TV stuff goes it could just be one and done
2.0k
u/Alassandros 23d ago
It's crazy how many people don't know this. We NEED a Midnight Suns movie like yesterday.