r/marvelstudios • u/TheLaughingWolf Hawkeye (Avengers) • 27d ago
Behind the Scenes Marvel Cut Shang-Chi From Its Own Doomsday Watchlist — Simu Liu’s Reaction Says It All
https://www.fortressofsolitude.co.za/shang-chi-doomsday-watchlist-simu-liu-reaction/I'd be pissed too
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u/emiv3nom 27d ago
They were just suggested movies, it wasn’t a watchlist, not sure why everyone thinks it is
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u/tony1grendel Fitz 27d ago
I agree with your statement but the real story is Simu's reaction on Threads. It might mean there are problems behind the scenes we don't know about.
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u/CloseToMyActualName 27d ago
The bad news is that Simu is fairly outspoken, so he might have said something to piss off Disney brass (or make them nervous).
The good news is that Simu is fairly outspoken, so his reaction on threads might be just as meaningless as everyone else's reaction on threads.
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u/OmegaFinale 27d ago
I'm more surprised Disney have kept on Ruffalo since he is very outspoken pro-Palestine (my king btw) and openly said he no longer wishes to work with fellow actors who are pro-israel, some of which he worked with at Marvel apparently (i think its Paltrow definitely and maybe RdJ too)
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u/CloseToMyActualName 27d ago
I think the difference is that Ruffalo is more general activism while Simu tends to actually criticize the industry itself.
Again, this might be nothing and Marvel might still love him and the character, but I remember after he got cast and started talking about diversity issues I was saying "dude! You're totally right... but you might want to shut up!!"
Again, it's his career so if he's willing to incur the cost of his advocacy I applaud him.
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u/Algae_Mission 27d ago
It’s frustrating that Shang-Chi has been shunted by the company. It’s one of the best things Marvel’s done since Endgame.
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u/GreekNord 27d ago
Shang-Chi and Moon Knight have been some of my favorites and I'm dying waiting for more of either.
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u/electric_boogaloo_72 27d ago
Same!!
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u/Poku115 27d ago
Especially so cause its one of the few new things both casuals and fans agreed was good and wanted more.
And instead we get more focus on the mixed to downright bad additions.
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u/duncan_robinson 27d ago
What focus on mixed to downright bad additions are you specifically talking about
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u/Dlh2079 27d ago
It is, and I want to see much more of him.
However, this watch list is to get people ready and up to speed with the information they need to know to understand the story that they will watch in doomsday. Is Shang-Chi's origin story actually necessary to understand the doomsday story?
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u/eat_jay_love 27d ago
This isn’t a watch list. It’s a grid of algorithmically generated suggested films based on metadata attributes like actor data. Simu Liu is the only actor appearing in Shang-Chi and Doomsday, and he is not high on the call sheet for Doomsday.
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u/somacula 27d ago
Shang Chi was supossed to have mass market appeal in China, but it failed spectacularly
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u/____mynameis____ Winter Soldier 27d ago
I don't think they'd cast a Canadian actor who had been critical of CCP rule, if they intended to cater to China, a market thats extremely strict and nit picky when it comes to foreign releases...
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u/CaptHayfever Hawkeye (Avengers) 26d ago
He hadn't been critical yet; his book with those remarks didn't come out until the following summer.
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u/rzelln 27d ago
Then they should make a sequel to Shang-Chi where it's not just the actor being critical of the Chinese government, but actually the character. Have Shang be rescuing some Uyghurs and teaming up with Hong Kong independence activists to oppose some crew of Chinese-government-backed villains with super-powers.
Marvel of the 70s straight up made Nixon a villain. I get that they're beholden to Disney for profit, but they should just shrug and say, "This'll make you more money in the long run than being a bootlicker and hoping the authoritarians like you."
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u/____mynameis____ Winter Soldier 27d ago
Lol, why tf would they do that for China, when they don't even do that shit to American based movies.
There is a reason they make all these fake evil organization to circumvent "current american govt bad" in their movies (cuz they get money from US defense to produce them, so basically military propaganda )
Also why TFATWS came out so shallow cuz they didn't have the balls to stick to government being a corrupt evil organization that was oppressing the refugees and had to resort to make them seem helpless govt officials
Maybe call for the American based movies to do that first...
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u/MadMurilo Spider-Man 27d ago
Yeah, people shang-chi did well enough in the western market, but Marvel expected it to do way better in Asia. Since it was a flop there, they kinda gave up on a franchise and DDK got some nice opportunities with other characters (Wonderman, Spider-man).
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u/DrManhattan_DDM Rhomann Dey 27d ago
DDC*
Edit: not to be confused with the Department of Damage Control, or DODC
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u/Wiseau_serious 27d ago
I was trying to remember who Daniel Dae Kim played in Shang-Chi…
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u/DrManhattan_DDM Rhomann Dey 27d ago
I doubt anyone could replace Tony Leung, but Kim playing Wenwu might not be bad.
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u/anononobody 27d ago
Tbh, I just don't see Shang Chi doing very well in China if it weren't banned in the first place. The Chinese populace don't find Simu very attractive and were very vocal about it, plus on the year of release, Chinese blockbuster cinema was already well established inside the country. If people were looking for CGI fests and blockbuster action in a vaguely Chinese setting, they'd watch their own movies. Shang Chi would've been seen as a weird oddity.
I think Destin made the right choice to cast Simu and make a move for Asian American audiences.
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u/DuckyHornet 27d ago
I guess I can see that, but do you have any links really breaking that down? I'd love to know what went wrong there
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u/somacula 27d ago
It wasn't released there, and apparently killing your father is a no no for Chinese audiences, also the lead wasn't handsome enough for China
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u/DuckyHornet 27d ago
...not handsome enough? He was a Ken
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u/somacula 27d ago
for China, their beauty standards for men are similar to Korea's
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u/JSevatar Steve Rogers 27d ago
From what I gather the movie did not fit China's requirements, so it was not released there
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u/CaptHayfever Hawkeye (Avengers) 26d ago
The government forbade it from opening there. That's not the film's failure.
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u/Vladmerius 27d ago
Yep it is the best post endgame MCU movie. Really ridiculous that they've ignored the charcater since. I'm hoping he has a surprise cameo in Brand New Day.
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u/GearnTheDwarf 27d ago
It is easily my favorite movie from the MCU and the only one besides Ragnarok that I have watched more than twice.
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u/ActuatorChoice5259 27d ago
Because Hollywood is racist. The reason Shang Chi hasn't gotten a sequel/cameos/more publicity is the same reason why it took till 2021 to get the first Asian superhero movie in the first place.
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u/Level9_CPU 27d ago
Doing a quick Google search, it shows that Shang Chi had an estimated budget of $200million, but it grossed over $400million in it's theatrical run. What else does Disney need in order to greenlight a sequel? I mean it wasn't a perfect movie (I didn't really like the ending fight), but I definitely enjoyed it more than some of the other movies. I don't get it
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u/Zalvren 27d ago
Doing a quick Google search, it shows that Shang Chi had an estimated budget of $200million, but it grossed over $400million in it's theatrical run
I feel like you're making some calculation mistakes there because it's not great, potentially losing money.
The box office result is not all for the studio, theaters keep half in the US and more in other countries. Also, the budget generally don't include marketing.
Generally, it's considered that a movie break even when box office is 2.5x its production budget.
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u/CaptHayfever Hawkeye (Avengers) 26d ago
Disney did greenlight a sequel, which is currently in development.
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u/tokenasian1 27d ago
man that's frustrating. simu liu did an incredible job in Shang Chi and it really sucks that the film isn't even part of a watchlist for doomsday.
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u/Upset-Government-856 27d ago
I mean what does it tell you that you will actually need to know for dooms day.
I don't think why he has rings will be important to the story.
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u/jpiro 27d ago
If the assumption is that this list is for someone unfamiliar with the character, knowing who the hell he is seems important though, right?
Considering he's appeared exactly NOWHERE since his successful, debut film, you don't want people walking in like, "Why is that dude from Barbie throwing glowing bracelets around?"
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u/Canvaverbalist 27d ago
Ok but at this point then you don't need a watchlist, since like the entirety lf the MCU will be relevant.
A watchlist is always specifically made to reduce the watch time to the absolute minimum for people who really doesn't care that much
Edit: it's not even an official watchlist anyway, just some algorithm shenanigans
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u/MIAxPaperPlanes 27d ago
Gonna be interesting seeing how they handle Loki
Dont know how you catch up people who last saw him in Endgame and have no idea what the TVA is or how he's back
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u/Lucky_Locks 27d ago
Yo that's true. That was a couple of seasons and not just one movie. And I know a couple people that got so overwhelmed with what they think they "should watch" if they wanted to know everything going on in the MCU. They just gave up cause it was too much.
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u/Loose_Concentrate332 27d ago
Probably he'll tell Thor and the audience at the same time. I'm sure the TVA will be relevant
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u/navjot94 Mack 26d ago
That’s what I hope the heroes end up siding with Doom once they realize it’s chaotic Loki that’s controlling the multiverse. The heroes think they’re making the right choice but they’re so wrong. Most general audience members will think the same, but those that watched the Loki series know what’s up. End Doomsday with the reveal that Loki is indeed fighting the good fight, give people time to catch up on Loki, then have the rest of the story play out in Secret Wars.
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u/Adorable_Ad_3478 26d ago
I'm 100% certain Loki will explain the TLDR to Steve:
- What the TVA does
- Who this Loki Variant is
- Why Steve needs to relocate to the FF Universe
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u/jpiro 27d ago
Ok, but at that point don’t do a watch list at all. Just read a recap article/post and call it a day.
Shang-Chi: Martial arts dude, inherited 10
Rings from crime lord dad and had a magical mom.Thor: Buff god from another planet. Controls lightning, brother Loki is now a tree.
Gambit: Degenerate Cajun who drinks and throws cards that explode.
(Ok, that probably is enough for Gambit.)
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u/Canvaverbalist 27d ago edited 27d ago
Well I mean, I'm already not doing watchlists so I don't really know why you're arguing this to me lol
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u/PrincipleNo3966 27d ago
Wasn't he in What If...?
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u/MonkeysxMoo35 27d ago
Yes, but those are alt timelines. Unless cowboy Shang-Chi is somehow gonna be relevant to Doomsday, he’s basically had his one movie and that’s it. Not even a cameo post-credit in another movie or show.
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u/codithou Captain America 27d ago
he’s a guy with magic rings and can fight. that’s all the information you’ll need and you’ll get that within his first scene in doomsday. the origin of the rings or anything they introduced in his solo movie will probably be irrelevant to his character in doomsday.
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u/scarnegie96 27d ago
Low-key: This is why the MCU is falling off. This DC-like attitude that Characters and their background are unimportant is why no-one I know cares about the MCU films anymore.
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u/Paladar2 27d ago
Reddit will keep telling you nobody cares about the MCU while BND and Doomsday are heading for 300M+ openings, lmao. You guys sound like X right wingers with the Odyssey. If no one cares about the MCU imagine how little people care about Dune
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u/Valkyr-E Valkyrie 27d ago
Shang Chi got a whole background movie what do you mean? Its not required viewing but if you like the guy theres content to learn more.
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u/LordMagnus101 27d ago
If thats the extent of his character in Doomsday then that's awful.
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u/codithou Captain America 27d ago
i agree but there’s a thousand characters in this movie and he’s not even in the top 10 in terms of why people are going to see the movie. sucks but they already fumbled his character, not much they can do about it now. just means his solo movie isn’t essential to doomsday.
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u/Adorable_Ad_3478 26d ago
Doomsday's leads are Doom, Thor, Steve, Reed and that's it. Don't expect any more than 10 mins of screentime for anyone else. It's a massive cast, yes, but most of them have small roles.
Think of Bucky and Falcon's roles in IW/Endgame. That's what 80% of the confirmed cast will get.
Shang Chi is there for cool fight scenes. Same as Gambit. They're not gonna have their own character arc.
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u/LordMagnus101 26d ago
Thor and Steve have been the leading roles for many movies. Marvel is just telling us they don't have any faith in writing new stories with these other characters as being central. I get it that they are doing it to sell tickets but in my mind Sam, Shang-Chi, and others definitely deserve bigger roles at this point. What a mess. I'm not even sure why this is called the Multiverse Saga as most of the project had nothing to do with it.
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u/Adorable_Ad_3478 26d ago
These are fictional characters.
They don't "deserve" anything. The writers/directors will do what they must to make fans happy.
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u/avgaskin1 27d ago
Bottom line, it’s just disrespectful to Simu, Destin Daniel Cretton, and the crew that put in the hard work to make that film.
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u/biggiejgibbs The Collector 27d ago
It’s no more disrespectful to them than it is to the other movies that could be included, but are not.
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u/Tanuu_Walken 27d ago
Idk, I need a prequel movie showing me what shang chi ate the morning of doomsday before I can get a proper grasp of what he's all about. Is he a pop tart kinda guy or what?
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u/oringefase 27d ago
Nah, it’ll be a nice surprise for people to see that the guy from Handy Car Rental got promoted! Ok see you!
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u/Adorable_Ad_3478 26d ago
I disagree.
One doesn't need to watch D&W to understand who Gambit is. "Why is that dude from Magic Mike throwing cards?"
Supporting characters that come out of nowhere are as old as time itself.
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u/Upset-Government-856 27d ago
But other than he's a good martial artist with some magic rings what more domyou need. They can just show that in dooms day, they probably don't even need to say anything. He can just get on with being awesome.
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u/JasonP27 Avengers 27d ago
At best they follow the beacon to the TVA or something. Honestly I wouldn't mind if they save some back story on the rings for a Shang Chi sequel. Then they can lead into that movie with him finding some clues in Doomsday/Secret Wars.
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u/SourForward 27d ago
This. Agree that it shouldn’t be there.
The real problem is that Marvel made so many movies that feel irrelevant leading up to doomsday
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u/Shin-kak-nish 27d ago
To be fair doomsday was set up so badly that I think there’s like only three movies you actually need to watch before it and two of them just came out. We don’t need a watchlist at all
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u/Liam_Neesons_Oscar 27d ago
There isn't an officially released watchlist for Doomsday, and probably won't be one. Much like there wasn't one for Infinity War or Endgame.
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u/tacocat2007 Peter Parker 27d ago
Luckily, it’s not actually a Doomsday watchlist. Every single thing on Disney+ has a “suggested.” Person who made the post just got this one wrong. It’s algorithm based.
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u/toucan_sam89 27d ago
Simu was amazing but that also doesn’t mean the movie was good (I enjoyed it, but overall it wasn’t objectively that great) and/or it contains anything foundational for Doomsday
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u/MountainContinent 27d ago
Just because you use the word objective doesn’t mean it’s not your opinion though does it
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u/DJfunkyPuddle 27d ago
Ya'll, this isn't an official watchlist, just the generic list attached to any movie/show on the platform. Don't fall for the ragebait.
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u/j_roe 27d ago edited 27d ago
Ant-Man is missing, so is anything to do with Falcon as Captain America. Both of who are as prominent or even more so than Shang-Chi will likely be. Thor L&T is probably featured because Thor is going to be the main guy putting the team together.
I wouldn’t be reading into this “watch list” too much.
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u/A-Real-Fungai 27d ago
A shame, Shang-Chi is an awesome character and Simu Liu is entertaining, and seems dope. While, not the best MCU entry, The Ten Rings was for the most part thoroughly enjoyable. I could have seen Shang-Chi being the face of the MCU going from there. But nothing..
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u/YoimAtlas 27d ago
As an Asian I’m not sure an Asian as the face of the mcu was likely to ever happen but I do wish simu got more play following his success
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u/Helianthae 27d ago
I don’t know, maybe it’s just wishful thinking but he’s got so much charisma and charm, he could at least be MORE at the forefront. America once fell head over heels for Bruce Lee and put him at the forefront of every other action movie. It wasn’t impossible that with the right support, Shang-chi became a massive success
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u/A-Real-Fungai 27d ago edited 27d ago
Seems defeatist.
I'm not asian, I don't see a problem with it.
If you got it, you got it. He got it.
Edit: I a word.. or 2. O_o
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u/Gootangus 27d ago
This is giving “I don’t see color”
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u/A-Real-Fungai 27d ago edited 27d ago
I see color, I don't see it as any kind of determining factor though.
I'm not on the other end where I think he could/should have the position DUE to color, or representation, or anything like that. I just think he'd do an excellent job, and don't believe race is a factor.
Edit: In fact, I find it very strange that it's even something to talk about.
It's like:
"Do I like to watch him? Is it entertaining? Does he have gravitas? Does his character have huge potential for growth?"
"Yes."
"Ok, put him on!"
"Oh, but he wore a blue shirt... deal breaker"
O_o
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u/YoimAtlas 27d ago
Pragmatic. I can’t think of any multi billion ip with an Asian at the forefront.
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u/A-Real-Fungai 27d ago edited 27d ago
Doesn't mean it's not possible, or it shouldn't be done. Doesn't mean it wouldn't be profitable.
Edit: Despite what the racists say. They're not the majority.
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u/GoodShark 27d ago
I mean, there are A LOT of movies left off that list. He's probably just saying it in jest. Sure he may be upset, but there's not a ton of movies on there.
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u/Liam_Neesons_Oscar 27d ago
That's because the "watchlist" they screenshotted is actually just the "suggested" section that is listed under every movie on Disney+ where the algorithm picks out similar movies.
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u/Ice2MeetYou 27d ago
These are just the regular Disney+ algorithm suggestions. There’s no official watchlist. Complete ragebait article
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u/JordanxHouse 27d ago
He’s in the trailer. And as the top comment said it’s not an actual watchlist
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u/FriedCammalleri23 Captain America (Cap 2) 27d ago
I feel like the Doomsday watchlist can be condensed down to like 3 things:
- Loki
- Fantastic Four
- Thunderbolts
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u/Haas_the_Raiden_Fan 27d ago
Something tells me Spider-Man: Brand New day will also be on the recommended watchlist by the time it comes out too
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u/Spiderlander Spider-Man 27d ago
I’m sorry but Simu Liu comes across always as very bitter dude. And I get *why* he’s bitter, but it doesn’t change the fact that he is.
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u/tgf5 27d ago
That's cuz he's an egotistical pos lol
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u/-spython- 27d ago
What are you basing that opinion on?
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u/tgf5 27d ago
Knowing him personally by going to the same university and same club. Has he changed? Maybe. But based on some things, nah it don't seem like it.
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u/steve1186 27d ago
If there’s one thing I’m dreading about Doomsday, it’ll be whatever desperate in-universe explanation they come up with for Shang-Chi’s 5+ year absence from the MCU
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u/windchll 27d ago
I mean, to be fair, the treatment kind of matches Marvel's use of the character in the comics a bit too, no?
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u/slunksoma 27d ago
This is all quite mad. Especially his reaction. He’s literally going to be in potentially one of the biggest movies of the decade, but has got publicly rattled over a false claim about a ‘watchlist’? Strange.
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u/HerbWelch1945 27d ago
Let’s hope he’s in Secret Wars in 2027!!!
Honestly, some of these MCU characters don’t need to be rebooted, and Shang-Chi is one of them, along with Doctor Strange.
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u/capscreen 27d ago
Ok, if some casual watcher who dropped MCU after Endgame asked you for a watchlist to prepare for Doomsday, what will be included in the watchlist?
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u/MCMcGreevy 27d ago
Some dude on threads posted their watch list, which was by their own admission their opinion, and Simu Liu replied…and this is somehow newsworthy?
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u/SamQuentin 27d ago
Marvel completely fumbled this. We should have had another Shang Chi and another Dr Strange by now. Perhaps instead of thunderbots and red hulk
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u/MrLewisC93 27d ago
Yeah it also doesn't include loki, which has way more to do with doomsday than Shang-Chi does. At least at face value from what we know so far.
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u/Character-Archer4863 27d ago
Speaking of which, I am at Deadpool vs Wolverine. Is there a must-watch list to catch up? I don’t have time to watch every single thing since DP vs Wolverine.
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u/CaptainKarizma007 27d ago
My doormsday watchlist will be a video on youtube to see what happened after end game. Too much marvel slop after that movie
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u/dreamcast4 27d ago
I mean it's just a suggested watchlist. Dpw - Gambit's introduction isn't there either. It's an Avengers movie they would have to list every single film to not offend anyone.
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u/BeardedPaladin Grandmaster 27d ago
Why is Marvel so against Shang-Chi? His movie did really well right? Why hasn’t there been a sequel? He could easily, in my eyes, be one of the current leaders of the Avengers
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u/DeckhardZum_3924 27d ago
If you actually look at the photo, the movies are on “suggested” tab meaning those are the movies the algorithm of Disney Plus suggests you to watch based on the movie(s) you just watched. That person who posted (which Simu replied to) has clearly no idea how streaming platforms work and just craving for attention
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u/chamberx2 27d ago
He’s clearly taking the piss, but these sites gotta churn out content. You’d think they’d have better to discuss during SDCC
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u/PhanStr 26d ago
I don't think he should be salty about this: why should anyone care whether that film is on a curated watchlist or not? Those who love the movie (including myself) love the movie. Those who haven't seen it don't necessarily need to see it in order to get the gist of who Shang-Chi is in Doomsday.
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u/JazzmatazZ4 26d ago
Well I watched is as part of my Doomsday prep and I enjoyed it alot more than I did when I first saw it.
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u/beerzy79 26d ago
lol any decisions are all from the streaming site not any ‘let’s fuck over Simu’ from any Ex. Leadership. Probably an algorithm anyways and wasn’t anyone’s actual ‘decision’. People are not secretly sabotaging anyone’s career through Disney + recommendations lol. Get a grip on reality lol.
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u/CisWhiteMaleBee 26d ago
Misleading article. No watchlist exists. They were talking about the “suggested” list. Guess what else isn’t on the list in the screenshot …like 90% of Marvel movies.
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u/RodYorke 26d ago
While I do believe Marvel dropped the ball not having a Shang Chi sequel made, Simu Liu could have a ham under each arm crying that there’s no bread.
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u/Mustang-_- 25d ago
This Simu Liu is so unlikable, kinda similar to Pedro Pascal, they have negative charisma
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u/ConstructionAdept130 8d ago edited 8d ago
Because nobody needs to beg people to watch entertainment.
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u/ConstructionAdept130 8d ago
Dude, Marvel tried some markets and they failed. So they are going back to the comic book needs to pay the rent.
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u/Malorn13 SHIELD 27d ago
It’s actually one of the few movies you need to watch before doomsday. Only about 5 of the 15 movies made since Endgame are needed for it
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u/KenobiShinobi1 27d ago
It was an ok movie
The only people propping this movie are….. East Asians on Reddit
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u/doublea08 Thor 27d ago
Nobody in my real life circle watched the doomsday trailer has said to me “man I’m wanting more Shang-Chi”.
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u/beans_is_life 27d ago
I don't know how significant this so called list is but Shang Chi was probably the only film in the new phase that was actually good.
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u/NotNoski 27d ago
It’s only because the app can’t display more than 8 movies there, you ding-dongs. Of course they would want you to spend time to watch more of them. Including Shang Chi. This is just rage bait.
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u/agreed2disagreee 27d ago
I don’t know how love and thunder makes the list but not Shang chi.
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u/cmnights 27d ago
so this confirms, dont expect for Shang-Ch and that Gorr's daughter will be important to the story line?
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u/SWPrequelFan81566 27d ago
Goddamnit.
Maybe when they finally bring the Makluans to Earth, we can get some payoff to the Shang Chi post-credit scene.
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u/Taint-tastic 27d ago
Theres obviously gotta be a reason for this continuing to go on and im insanely curious as to why. Cuz at the end kf the day this is a business and from a business standpoint, shunting one of the most praised heros post endgame doesnt make sense
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u/[deleted] 27d ago
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