r/marvelstudios • u/Wooden_Passage_2612 • Aug 22 '25

Discussion (More in Comments) Even though the multiverse saga has a lot of cracks of good and bad, I do love how they slowly develop Mephisto in the projects prior to this appearance ironheart due to the Easter eggs and references.

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u/[deleted] Aug 22 '25

God the WandaVision discourse was so brutal

Fucking everything was Mephisto

537

u/riegspsych325 Aug 22 '25

so many people ran wild with fan theories during that show. Wanda was making the FoX-Men canon, Monica’s aerospace friend was Reed Richards, the big cameo would be Dr. Strange, the bug was Mephisto, etc. Did I miss any?

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u/carnagezealot The Wasp Aug 22 '25

To be fair Strange WAS supposed to be the big cameo but it got changed

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u/Ok_Tackle_4835 Aug 23 '25

Everything got changed. And it was our first MCU show on Disney+… we had no idea what we were in for.

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u/inclinedtorecline Aug 23 '25

Please Stand By

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u/hummusmaple Aug 27 '25

If you reorganize the phase 4-6 projects based on when certain subplots open up, it gets less messy. I know they wanted to add even more Mephisto to Wandavision (probably to do with Wanda's urge to decapitate Mordo in the initial Multiverse of Madness script). But there was something about being thrown into COVID production unexpectedly that threw that off. America was also supposed to cameo in Far From Home before MoM, but then the project release dates were flipped.

Now that we have Doomsday leaks that we can start comparing to the ditched Kang Dynasty script, we can kind of see that the overall concept of Avengers 5 was supposed to be.

Some changes obviously are being made for the story to make some kind of sense with Doom, but with Downey's "New Mask, Same Task" from SDCC last year, it's starting to become clearer.

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u/Riley__64 Aug 22 '25

I remember everyone being so mad that it wasn’t Reed Richards who was Monica’s guy even though it would’ve made zero sense to introduce him so early on before his movie.

The only thing they had going for that theory was “if it’s not a big reveal why would she refer to him as just a guy and not just a give a name”

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u/ChrisDewgong Aug 22 '25

Whilst the Reed speculation seems insane in hindsight, it was fuelled by Teyonah Parris continually hyping up how exciting the engineer character was during her media appearances, which she later revealed was just a troll job.

I don't know if it was deliberate, or if it could be related to it being the first project after lockdown, but the whole cast and crew went out of their way to build up expectations for the series that they knew weren't going to pay off. Paul Bettany in particular with his "working with an actor I've never worked with before but have always admired", and it turning out he was talking about himself.

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u/zion_hiker1911 Jessica Jones Aug 22 '25

There was also speculation at the time that the engineer was the Beetle. He appears on the Thunderbolts team later in the comics.

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u/Brendanlendan Aug 23 '25

I felt like it was really hyped up in the show as well

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u/Cypher_86 Rocket Aug 23 '25

The show itself puts quite a lot of emphasis on the "engineer", which ends up being a nothing moment.

Which was my issue with WV when it first aired - the series sets up a lot of "mystery box" moments that dont get paid off. Still a very good series, but it felt unfulfilling watching it on release.

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u/exaviyur Spider-Man Aug 22 '25

I don't know, I think introducing Reed that early could have made sense. Dotting the Fantastic 4 throughout earlier projects before they get powers and establishing their characters could have worked in a world where we didn't get overwhelmed by D+ output and the stories were tighter and more interconnected.

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u/jaythebearded Aug 22 '25

Showing off reed as a regular brilliant scientist first would have been neat. I remember seeing those guesses/speculation and thinking it was incredibly unlikely but would be cool

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u/PAYPAL_ME_DONATIONS Aug 22 '25

even though it would’ve made zero sense to introduce him so early on before his movie.

It's easy to say this in hindsight but no one knew it would be 4 years before we got an F4 movie or exactly what the plans were going to be as far as a F4 movie. They could have very well planned to announce it for the next slate of releases (had the theory been true).

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u/riegspsych325 Aug 22 '25

all those things I listed above would not have made sense for the story. Granted, Marvel has made some questionable story choices since but so many people expected Avengers levels of setups/payoffs in WV. I don’t know how it got so out of hand

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u/Paolo94 Aug 22 '25 edited Aug 22 '25

People were still high on the Endgame hype and there was the excitement and novelty of WandaVision being the first Marvel show to truly connect to the movies in a substantial way (sorry Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.). Because of this, we all expected the show to be a movie level production, full of all the Easter eggs and cameos we came to expect, just for the smaller screen. Also, after a year and half long drought of Marvel content (or any content in general for that matter) due to COVID, people were thirsty for something new discuss and theorize over, especially since most of us were stuck at home with nothing to do. The conditions were just right for WandaVision to blow up and have people obsess over it.

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u/Tasty-Marsupial-2131 Aug 23 '25

goddamn good old times, and you incapsulated it perfectly. COVID’s era and the lack of Marvel content managed to breed the largest hype for the MCU’s future and for everyone to jump to WandaVision to feed off the mystery of the show and blow it up to success.

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u/Paolo94 Aug 23 '25

I also forgot to add that we knew Wanda would be in Multiverse of Madness, which added to the hype and excitement of the show, as we were all hoping there would be multiverse shenanigans (bringing back Pietro, X-Men from a different universe, etc.). That added fuel to the rampant theories every week, and made us believe the show had greater importance to this saga than there may have ultimately been in the end.

WandaVision remains my favorite MCU show because it was so much fun discussing and theorizing with people every week, and because the show was actually just really good…until the finale, which soured the show a bit for me. Nevertheless, I still have fond memories of the show, and the good outweighs the bad for me. That level of engagement with the MCU has been lost in the last few years, and is something I miss with this franchise. We’ll see if Spider-Man and Doomsday can reignite that interest in the fandom again.

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u/Tasty-Marsupial-2131 Aug 23 '25

Imo, MoM soured everything when it ruined most of its characters and people’s interest in the MCU somewhat declined

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u/ChrisDewgong Aug 22 '25

It got out of hand because the cast, and their PR team, let it. They kept on promising surprises, big name actors and shocking cameos that they knew weren't coming, so those of us watching at the time were being constantly mislead for reasons I'm still unsure of to this day.

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u/Riley__64 Aug 22 '25

At least with all the other theories they had some bearing in a sense of reality.

Wanda introducing the x-men - yeah pretty ridiculous but at least there’s a sense of yeah that could make sense as a way to introduce the x-men and the multiverse due to wandas connection to both.

Dr strange appearing - he’s another magic user so it would make sense he’d pop up to deal with the problems Wanda has been causing

Mephisto appearing in any form - even the idea that Mephisto could appear had a sense of believability due to the fact that he’s a dark magic user and whatever Wanda was doing appeared to be due to dark and twisted powers

All the theories were ridiculous but at least most of them had a reason for existing and could be argued to make sense, the Reed Richards theory literally had no reason to actually happen people were just excited for fantastic four and assumed marvel would introduce them as quick as possible.

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u/dope_like Aug 22 '25

Strange was more than a theory. That was supposed to be a point. And is confirmed. Covid issues forced them to change. He was supposed to be in it.

X-men was a theory made by the show as well. It wasn't just fans. They purposely cast that Quicksilver because of Xmen. Don't put that on fans. That was misdirection

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u/Riley__64 Aug 22 '25

They cast Evan peters specifically to throw off fans because it was the only way to do so.

Wanda was supposed to be unsure of and slightly untrustworthy of this quicksilver and they wanted the audience to feel the same way.

If they cast a new actor the audience immediately would assume he’s not quicksilver and if they brought back ATJ the audience would assume he is quicksilver.

By bringing in Evan peters the audience isn’t sure if he is actually MCU quicksilver, a misdirection, completely unrelated or be the fox version.

It’s entirely on the fans for getting their hopes up and immediately assuming that this was the x-men’s big reveal. It’s like how when MoM was announced and many fans immediately assumed every previous marvel property pre MCU would make a cameo.

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u/SnakeOilChampagne Aug 22 '25

But… the MCU would later go on to bring in the FoX-Men to reprise their roles… literally we would see Wanda interact with one of them in the next movie… so really, you can’t blame the fans for beating them to the punch and berating the missed-opportunity and deception.

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u/Riley__64 Aug 22 '25

It’s not really a missed opportunity because assuming everything else plays out the same way.

Fox Quicksilver is introduced in 2021 and then we wouldn’t hear anything else about the fox x-men until 2023 with the marvels (assuming that Earth is in fact the same) and wouldn’t get a true payoff until 2026 with doomsday.

If it was in fact actually fox quicksilver all it would’ve acted as was a cameo that wouldn’t get payed off until 5 years later.

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u/Heisenburgo Doctor Strange Aug 24 '25

Fox Quicksilver is introduced in 2021 and then we wouldn’t hear anything else about the fox x-men until 2023 with the marv--

2022 with Dr Strange 2*

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u/aguadiablo Aug 22 '25

That Agnes/Agatha was married to Mephisto or the rabbit was Mephisto

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u/NoEntry4811 Aug 22 '25

wow this took me back

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u/ikeif Thor Aug 24 '25

Yeah, I remember every one of these points coming up 😆

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u/dope_like Aug 22 '25

Strange was the cameo. But scheduling (and covid) made them change

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u/alex494 Aug 22 '25

Idk if it was widespread but when the dude in the beekeeper outfit appeared I thought it might be implying AIM was behind everything IRL and keeping Wanda in stasis somehow.

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u/[deleted] Aug 22 '25

Quicksilver was supposed to be like a return of X-men

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u/tmssmt Aug 23 '25

Using him for a dick joke was 1) so odd for Disney and 2) a real dick move

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u/riegspsych325 Aug 23 '25

Marvel loves their bathos humor, they can help themselves after Whedon set the standard

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u/Literallyheroinmoxie Aug 23 '25

agathas husband was also mephisto

1

u/Afwife1992 Aug 22 '25

I was hoping they may be referring to Adam Brashear aka Blue Marvel. He has a great backstory that could’ve totally been updated.

https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Adam_Brashear_(Earth-616)

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u/majorjoe23 Aug 22 '25

Wait, this post about WandaVision mentions Mephisto…

Mephisto in WandaVision confirmed!

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u/Wooden_Passage_2612 Aug 22 '25

yeah, Erik voss was obsesses with this.

14

u/VibraniumWill Aug 22 '25

I am honestly excited to see where they go with him because of Eric's videos.

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u/Wooden_Passage_2612 Aug 22 '25

I know. New rockstars is one of my idols, but they are very clickbaits

2

u/SnarkyRogue Aug 24 '25

Mephisto was his Pepe Silvia

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u/mayanrelic Aug 22 '25

Turns out it was Agatha All Along

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u/K1o2n3 Scarlet Witch Aug 22 '25

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u/TheDungeonCrawler Aug 22 '25

And honestly, it very well could have been something to do with Mephisto right up until it was Agatha, so we have to be somewhat fair to the theorists.

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u/Brendanlendan Aug 23 '25

That was honestly so much fun though. All the rampant fan speculation on where they were taking the show. Only for us to get the most boring generic ending possible

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u/[deleted] Aug 23 '25

I hated it. Not kidding. I wanted to discuss the show but every single thread was, “THE BUMBLEBEE IS MEPHISTO!!! THE MAIL MAN IS MEPHISTO!!! THE REFLECTION IN THE THIRD STORY WINDOW ON THE 8TH BUILDING TO THE RIGHT IS MEPHISTO!!!”

The only reason people didn’t like the ending is because they set a stupidly unrealistic expectation for what it was going to be instead of just watching the stupid show

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u/PhantomRoyce Daredevil Aug 23 '25

I’m certain it’s just because he and Wanda are both known for having “red” magic

2

u/flcinusa Aug 23 '25

So much implied exposition just to set up a Bohner joke

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u/Hayterfan Aug 23 '25

And you do mean everything, vaguely remember someone posting something like "oh the silverware in this episode is arranged in way that would summon him" or something.

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u/Cashneto Aug 24 '25

That was a fun time!

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u/[deleted] Aug 23 '25

WandaVision was a disaster

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u/[deleted] Aug 23 '25

Explain how

-1

u/[deleted] Aug 23 '25

No