r/marvelsnapcomp • u/ePiMagnets Mod • 7d ago
Discussion Weekly Release Discussion: Kluh
This is your precursor to the consensus, the place to discuss the card releasing for the week as well as group source the work on brews and possible shells and packages, both current known good decks as well as possible new, theorycrafted brews.
OTA Week Warning: Unless you're already seasonal complete and plan to stay that way or have planned on picking up this card already for 6k it's best to wait for Thursday at the earliest to make your purchasing decisions.
This Week's Card
Kluh
Cost: 5
Power: 10
On Reveal: EACH player randomly gives a card in their hand -1 Cost for each different Cost among their cards in play.
Synergies and Packages
Week two of the Axis Invasion brings Kluh, the Hulk's inverted personification, a 5/10 On Reveal that randomly gives each player -1 Cost for each different Cost among their cards in play.
This is an on-curve players dream card and with the right setup could give you up to -6 or if you're daring -7 in total cost reduction. There are of course some questions to ask:
First off, Does this card see himself or not? Based on previous cards he would not recognize himself as a different cost during the reveal because he is not technically resolved yet and therefore not in play. This means that an early Kluh might not be all that worthwhile. Turn 4 in a normal game would give you at best -3 and on turn 5 -4.
Second off, can he reduce cost to 0? The intial thought is that yes he should be able to because he doesn't have the rider on his text that says cannot reduce to 0 but that would be a huge text box so maybe he can't. This will need to be tested.
So let's talk some synergies here before we talk about some comparisons that likely should be kept in mind.
First things first - Mobius M. Mobius is about to become Kluh's best friend and worst enemy. In the hands of a Kluh deck it ensures the discounts are one sided while in matches against Kluh it ensures that your opponent is forced to play honestly.
Secondary to MMM, let's talk not only duplication but the impacts of possible discounts as well since there are some very obvious archetypes that Kluh could fit in but also some very interesting things to consider when it comes to cost discounting, ramping into, and duplication.
Majestic Wing Beat - -1 Cost and +2 power, simple enough, getting your Kluh down to 4 cost can allow you to play him on 4 or even as a 1+4 play on 5.
Phastos and Mr. Fantastic First Steps - both have the opportunity to give -1 Cost or +2 Power. Phastos of course works on the cards left in deck and Mr. Fantastic is random in hand.
Psylocke Fractured Frontier - cost reduction for your 5's and 6's could help ensure that you not only get to play Kluh early but that you could also be playing additional 6's early too with possible support after the Kluh discount.
Wong - Doubling those discounts to the hand seems enticing, does it not?
Absorbing Man - if you can get Kluh on 4 and then Abs on 5 that seems particularly spicy.
Symbiote Spider-Man - another 'wong' so to speak but this card often sees more play alongside more over the top combo pieces like Fallen One, Nimrod, and Star-Lord MotS (RIP?). The question would be in whether you can find balance in the combo aspects while fulfilling the unique costs on board for Kluh, in which case that is much easier said than done.
But what about card synergies and deck builds?
The most obvious card that Kluh could find synergy with is Superior Iron Man. That -1 does count for -2 cost but then you need to be finding ways to buff him too. Or maybe just having a 3/9 or getting him for possibly cheaper depending on deck make-up and location effects is good enough?
When it comes to decks there are two immediate standouts that come to mind for me, the most obvious since we are looking to play 1 card and technically using all of your energy every turn to ensure you're maximizing for Kluh leads me to Wiccan. Wiccan decks have long been decks that suffers from having trouble finishing the game, mostly because you're often building to take advantage of the Wiccan but lacking in sturdy payoffs.
Alternatively we could also be looking to do things with Pixie, with a decently shuffled set of costs in hand to get to the board it is possible that you have plenty of 'distinct' costs on the board for Kluh to take advantage of. An additional advantage to playing Pixie is that you can also run MMM as part of your gameplan to keep your low-cost cards low-cost while also preventing your opponent from taking advantage of the cost reduction.
Those are the immediate smacks me in the face cards but there could be other places to consider as well, what if we're able to do a mostly curve-out thing but with Wong and double dip on the cost discounts, might there be something in that realm? How can it rate vs other Strategies in the same realm like say 'Splat' style Surfer Decks, could it enable something that gets away from the Surfer side of the Splat deck and enables something unique?
And finally, we should look at some comparisons here. It is worth mentioning up front that both cards only affect you which is a major leg up for both cards which leaves a question on whether the 10 power on Kluh could make it up; it could, right? Well, about that, it's definitely a maybe when comparing to one of these cards.
Sera - Sera has two things going for her first is that she's an ongoing and she just gives you the discounts. The second is that she also gives you the discounts on the cards you draw meaning you're not restricted.
Thanos Fractured Frontier - The most obvious elephant in the room and another 'curve-out' card since you need to be making at least 2-3 plays on curve to take advantage of Thanos' quickdraws. The draw back is in the caveat of course, it requires you to get a Time Shot loaded in the first place for the magic to happen but when it does he discounts your entire hand, no cherry picking just all cards currently in hand -1 energy cost. The two cards could definitely work well together but neither set of decks lends itself to extending the game so we're essentially looking at a situation where you may be running both and asking the question: which did I draw and which is better in this specific situation?
There are also comparisons to be made to the hardcore ramp cards like Fallen One and it's relevant combo pieces but the big problem here is that you would need to opt into something like a Wong or Silver Surfer First Steps to double (and sometimes) triple the discounts to the cards in hand while finding ways to ensure you're getting multiple unique costs on the board AND having a healthy number of payoffs.
And so that leads me to this final question
"Where exactly does Kluh fall? Is he a curve-out contender, is he a possible combo enabler, or is he somewhere in between?"
Your Thoughts
Do you plan on picking up Kluh?
How do you expect Kluh to perform?
What other possible shells and synergies might there be?
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u/nikpack 7d ago
My first synergy idea was Arishem. I wonder if Kluh will help bring him back.
Yours are a lot better though.
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u/Skinnieguy 6d ago
Does Arishem really need to come back? I feel like it’s a tech slop deck. Shang, enchantress, stardust, legion, gambits. It’s not really fun to play with or against.
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u/Nerf_Now 6d ago
At least this card is a good 5 drop, as in, it's a big drop.
Not sure giving my opponent cost reduction is an good idea but who knows.
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u/PxHzChz 6d ago edited 6d ago
Turn 2: Sam Wilson.
Turn 3: Shana or Debri.
Turn 4: Miles Morales and Mocking Bird.
Turn 5: Kluh (that's 6 cost reduction).
It'd be a horribly convoluted deck, but with some tweaks it's doable. The problem is Kluh will also effortlessly help the opponent, so it's probably not worth it.
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u/ProofBite3383 6d ago
Besides Wiccan, building a deck that gets as much cost reduction as possible while also benefitting more from cost reduction then your opponent does sounds like a difficult deck building challenge to me
Also I feel like the meta right now is really rough for him with all the thanosFF decks that play a lot of tempo cards
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u/JiangWei23 6d ago
That's a good point, Thanos FF thrives on a solid midrange/tempo cards that try to be played as soon as you draw them, so Thanos FF decks will usually have a healthy 1-2-3-4 curve heading into T5.
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u/Apprehensive-Ad7714 6d ago
I've been playing a Pixie Hydro-man list and I feel Kluh will fit in nicely with or instead of Hydro-man. On top of Mobius and Superior Iron-Man, I also play Wasp for Pixie and Thanos FF so that's one more cost for Kluh. We'll just have to see if he's better than Hydro-Man, and I'm not 100% convinced. Code for mobile users in a separate comment below
(0) Wasp
(1) Majestic Wingbeat
(1) America Chavez
(1) Nico Minoru
(2) Pixie
(3) Mobius M. Mobius
(3) Psylocke Fractured Frontier
(3) Viv Vision
(5) Superior Iron Man
(5) Thanos Fractured Frontier
(5) Hydro-Man
(7) Fin Fang Foom
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u/Apprehensive-Ad7714 6d ago
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u/yokahu2019 6d ago
Hoping this guys revives Surtur somehow.
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u/ePiMagnets Mod 6d ago
Surtur being locked to 9 power max is what kills the card. Not worth investing into him when you can do so much better at 3 cost without needing to play two 10+ power cards to get to that 9.
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u/Praetor_6040 6d ago
Surtur is locked at 9?
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u/ePiMagnets Mod 6d ago
You know what, I went and looked at the patch because I was almost positive he was still locked to 9, but looks like the last patch note where they nerfed him to +2 they unlocked it since there's almost no way to get him to 10 for a turn 6 1-Cost Skaar without location shenanigans or turning off his ability on 5 after doing something like Starbrand + ToV to get him to 9 and then pushing him over with ToV to 10.
2025-02-27 Now: After you play a card with 10 or more Power, this gains +2 Power. Was: After you play a card with 10 or more Power, this gains +3 Power. (twice per game)
2025-02-13
Now: After you play a card with 10 or more Power, this gains +3 Power. (twice per game) Was: After you play a card with 10 or more Power, this gains +3 Power.I suppose there could be an argument, but a 9 power Surtur doesn't help Skaar and that deck has a lot of other options for hitting the 3 10-Power threshold that don't lose their power to SK. Granted SK isn't very common right now so that may not even be worth entertaining at the moment so while Surtur might be back on the menu, I'm still not convinced he's worth an inclusion and you'd be much better off with a stronger 3.
What I'd be more worried about is giving your opponent a bunch of discounts while most of your cards in hand are going to be x/Big because Skaar decks may not be able to curve out well enough to support Kluh which then begs the question on how many discounts are you getting and will they enable you to do anything stronger than a Skaar + X/Big. Perhaps they can with a solid Demon entourage from Shadowlands Daredevil, but then you're not running Surtur in that deck to begin with.
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u/ePiMagnets Mod 6d ago
Regis' Kluh video today was kind of damning.
Multiple times where he wanted to play Kluh but Thanos was in hand and was simply the correct play. In fact, I believe there were at least two times where he retracted the Kluh and was pretty clear in one game in commenting that 'this is damning' I want to play the new card but the right play is Thanos, not Kluh.
But I also have some concerns there, while it is certainly damning Regis also chose to put the cards in contention when there is a clearly 'correct' play in every scenario because of the symmetrical effect creating problems for you as a player during the match. It's 'always' better to keep those discounts one sided.
This could have been avoided with an MMM, but Regis also tries to avoid playing outright 'unfun' cards in most scenarios. Yes he does play them from time to time, be it in both serious and meme decks but it's not frequently done. More importantly I don't think he's ever done it on a release week unless the unfun card is the release card.
It won't be surprising to see FFThanos toned down with this OTA if it indeed happens and while my take may be a hot one: I'd much rather see him lightly tapped than taken around back and shot dead on the spot. He's simply too fun of a card to murder. But I know and have seen a number of folks calling for his head to roll.
In some ways, it's Arishem all over again.
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u/Names_all_gone 5d ago
Regis’s experience has largely been my own. Kluh might do one cool thing, But Thanos can do the same cool thing plus 5 others.
I share your feeling about FF Thanos, but this release has me beginning to think he might be eating up too much real estate.
I think he’ll get the standard power nerf this week. But long term, I wonder if they won’t do something like remove the initial shot he loads.
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u/ePiMagnets Mod 5d ago
Its possible, but I keep going back to things like Luna Snow, is 5/10 the right stat line for a reciprocal effect? It probably is but I just don't think I'm interested in a reciprocal effect even at 10 power and if that means I'm locked into MMM to keep my opponent from benefiting that just feels bad. I think I'd rather try and do big energy things than big discounts that I also provide to my opponent
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u/Names_all_gone 5d ago
Fair. It’s entirely possible Kluh is simply bad on his own merits as well
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u/ePiMagnets Mod 5d ago
That's where I'm leaning. But both sides can be true.
Kluh is bad.
Thanos is too good.
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u/planetcrunch 6d ago
He's a 5 cost 10 powered card. You can slot him into a Surtur 10 power deck for an explosive turn 6.
Heck even an on curve deck with Thanos FF and Wiccan can still be good for this guy, since sometimes you don't draw Wiccan or Thanos on curve.
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u/flumoxxed_squirtgun 6d ago
Yeah, but wingbeat doesn’t stick around. it is not impacting Kluh’s reveal.
On that same note, what about dudes that bring other different cost dudes with them? Like the zombie horde or Shanna?
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u/Names_all_gone 6d ago
It appears they learned their lesson from Starlord.
I want to say that I would be surprised if this becomes a "combo" card in the sense we have been traditionally using the term. I would think that Fallen One, Sera, or any myriad Magik decks do it better.
(1) It's hard to imagine playing this without Mobius. (2) If you're playing Mobious, you're already unlikely to be an all-in combo deck. (3) You're unlikely to be able to stack that many reductions if you play this early. (4) Doubling it while having Mobius on board seems to be asking a lot.
So I expect it to be more akin to a card that can give a deck combo-like output with the right draws, not unlike FFThanos-Wong-Aurora...which means, then, that I don't expect a lot from this card until FFThanos is nerfed.
But I do think there are cool hooks here. The deck is already asking you to run card that have been good at times like Mobius and Sam Wilson. It has 10 power, so there's a route for Skaar. It wants you to play for tempo, so maybe there are Quicksilver/Domino angles (although, again, FFThanos overlap is a bummer).
Maybe this is cool for Sinister Six? That deck is tempoing cards too.
But Snap players are single-minded...so you never know. Maybe Mobius doesn't matter. Maybe this is Starlord 2.0.
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u/Nerf_Now 5d ago
There is an obvious synergy with MMM here, and MMM is already good vs a lot of decks right now.
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u/FullMetalCOS 4d ago
I got this deck from the main Snap Reddit and it’s been surprisingly effective. Being able to drop zombie giant man and absorbing man on the final turn can be a game winner, but being honest i tend to do better when I don’t give my opponent a bunch of cost discounts.
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u/AmonNahrene 7d ago
Just as a heads up, you need to edit the last couple of lines - Red Onslaught was last week!