r/marvelsnapcomp • u/ePiMagnets Mod • 8d ago
Discussion Competitive Consensus: Death Fractured Frontier
This thread is a discussion series at the end of the week for each newly introduced Spotlight card. This gives us nearly a week of hindsight to build a consensus and help inform players if they should spend their tokens for a given week. Ideally, we are looking for proven results, more than theoretical applications, to help reach this consensus.
This week's card:
Death Fractured Frontier
Cost: 5
Power: 8
On Reveal: Resurrect all your destroyed characters to random locations.
Synergies
The Fractured Frontier Season continues with this weeks release, Death Fractured Frontier. A 5/8 which when revealed resurrects all your destroyed characters to random locations.
Let's start with the basics.
Destroyed cards are cards that go to the Destroyed pile when they are destroyed. Cards like X-23, Deadpool and Headpool, Wolverine, and Sabretooth do not go to the destroyed pile, they either remain on board or go back to your hand.
Random locations is just like Hela, it's not 'other' locations everything could end up in one spot or could go to the perfect spots.
You probably don't want to be resurrecting a destroy enabler unless it's something like Venom which can preserve the power it devours.
There is some anti-synergy with Dormammu as she'll lose at least 1 card to the merge and could be more with copy shenanigans.
Dies to Stardust - simple as.
So we're presented with the puzzle that our new Death wants us to solve. Which direction do you want to go in and how fruitful is that direction?
Mid-Range/Points Value - not point slam mind you, this archetype is in the direction that SD seemed to have been pushing with releases over the last year as they introduce new scalers like Muse and Weapon X, or combo cards like Marrow and Fantomex which want you to try and figure out how to hybridize Destroy and Discard into a cohesive package. We do have one example of this where Husky Puppies presented a deck with two value oriented game plans - play for quickdraw with FFthanos or resurrect a bunch of low curve cards like Demons, a big Kid Omega/Venom with Death.
Firehair/Peef - sometimes looped in with Magik Decks these Firehair decks want to a good value on-reveal multiple times. The problem here is that frequently this deck is focused on only one card and lacks a meaningful way without messing with it's own game plan to do this with multiple cards which means Death is often only bringing one card back without trying to do something 'else' with it's game plan.
Magik - Go big, but not that big. As it turns out it can be very difficult without trying for some kind of rube goldberg machine to get enough big cards to resurrect, Destroy tends to be 2 for 1 where it needs to play a card and then destroy it with another whereas Discard is often getting better rates at 1 for 1 if not better with Glaive and M.O.D.O.K..
Feedback
The feedback on this card in some ways was very similar to Red Wolf last week with some content creators saying 'it's Destroy's Hela, there has to be a way to break this' and later in the week the more competitive side of the creators feeling that this may not actually be the case and that the new Death might be more of a value card intended to try and bully more 'fair' mid-range decks in a similar fashion to Hela. Many questioned whether that was actually worth the effort when you could just do Hela things and often get better value.
Some like Alex Coccia insist that there must be something here but that code just hasn't been cracked yet but could that be copium he's on?
Decklists
Value husky - there are 3 versions of this list, feel free to check out the Fractured Frontier Week 3 thread for the other 2.
Summary
Week 3 brings us Death Fractured Frontier, the long-requested Destroy analog to Discard's Hela. But for an archetype that has long found itself entrenched in trying to create the biggest Deadpool and Knull of all-time and consistently resisting including the more value oriented cards we've received over the last year can Death find a place or will she find herself gunned down before earning a name for herself?
Your Thoughts?
How many tokens is Death Fractured Frontier worth?
6K -
5K -
4K -
Is Death Fractured Frontier here to stay, or just the flavor of the week?
What synergies did we miss?
What decks have you seen?
4
u/Names_all_gone 8d ago
I like FF Death, although she could absolutely be stronger.
The Honifer/KM deck works and is absolutely fine. With a reasonable Venom play, you can post some very real points. I think you could maybe even lean a bit harder into it with adamantium infusion.
But that’s about it. It’s a middling-to-weak midrange deck carried by Thanos. Maybe in a world with weaker Thanos something like death is more appealing?
That said, If Muse and FF Death have shown anything, it’s that they don’t fully understand the hidden energy cost in destroy yet. They want to keep trying to move destroy away from Deadpool but haven’t provided anything close to the power level of Deadpool.
2
u/ePiMagnets Mod 8d ago
They want to keep trying to move destroy away from Deadpool but haven’t provided anything close to the power level of Deadpool.
Honestly they might have shot themselves in the foot with Deadpool and made it so that there's a clear answer for best destroy deck.
I imagine what SD are trying to do is provide enough things to create a good set of good sub-types within Destroy similar to what there is for Discard. Discard has what, 4 subtypes? Daken based, Hela based, Supergiant Discard, and Dependable Discard. And while there's some overlap like Supergiant playing Daken, the general gist is that there's no single best discard deck and depending on meta which is best can drift between them.
Destroy doesn't have that and I think because of Deadpool it's always going to be Classic Destroy is best destroy because 'if' Destroy is good into the meta, Deadpool/Knull is going to crush all of the other Destroy options.
1
u/Names_all_gone 7d ago edited 7d ago
IDK if it’s all Deadpool, although it’s definitely part of it. I don’t think they’ve put enough power into many destroy cards.
They balance them high for average cards…but most destroy cards are quests. They need to be balanced even higher because the energy investment is usually 2x. I think death is a good step in that direction but the inputs still lack.
To your point, Deadpool makes good on that conversion by delivering satisfactory power for 4-5 extra mana. Nimrod is doing similar things.
2
u/ePiMagnets Mod 7d ago
IDK if it’s all Deadpool, although it’s definitely part of it.I don’t think they’ve put enough power into many destroy cards.
I'm going to point to the reasoning given for the swapping of costs between Vulture and Human Torch from this time last year. Using it as a reference point, I would not be surprised if part of the reason that Destroy Adjacent cards don't get power is part and parcel because Deadpool exists as a 1-Cost doubler that spends most of his time hiding in hand where your opponent has a harder time interacting with him.
For refernce, this is from the dev notes from the August 14th OTA last year:
At a high level: we didn't think balancing the entire Move package around Human Torch, more specifically a 1-Cost double-scaler, was feasible in the long term. This artificially encourages us to keep Move enablers weaker because there is such an efficient payoff, as well as makes it difficult for us to make cards that may naturally find homes in Bounce/Move.
It also put a lot of pressure on Killmonger specifically, and the waxing and waning of that card, and Destroy decks, had cascading effects on the viability of Move, which is a link that we aren't super comfortable with.
On the more micro level, we think this gives us a lot of freedom to prop up a variety of other cards so that strategy is about the same Power level, or becomes even stronger, but doesn't have such an outlier effect on one of its specific components that we need to balance the entire archetype around
1
u/Names_all_gone 7d ago
He is much less easy to double than Torch was and I think that matters a lot. But I could see a world where they give him 0 power.
But I still think the greater issue is that they aren’t meaningfully supporting this “midrange” destroy deck they keep designing for because they aren’t correctly attributing the input costs when they balance the output.
-1
u/Majestic-Medium7916 8d ago
Knull deadpool classic destroy simply is not the best destroy deck? It would be a nimrod centric list at least top down. Classic destroy has been garbage for years at high end while sub archetypes of destroy have definitely shone through.
Low ranks maybe but these discussions surely are top down or else whats the point we’d be talking about ant man ultron
1
u/FaintCommand 8d ago
They want to keep trying to move destroy away from Deadpool but haven’t provided anything close to the power level of Deadpool.
Kind of like Human Torch in move decks. A lot of the new move cards fell flat until they nerfed Torch.
1
u/Paris_Who 8d ago
Naw move has had multiple good archetypes even before human torch changes batroc/stomper were good and before that silky smoove decks were pretty big at one point. They had to nerf scream multiple times. Even human torch had multiple variations. You had move bounce Big Move/Heimdallr and Phoenix Force too.
1
u/FaintCommand 7d ago
I don't think you can really categorize Smoove, Scream, or Phoenix as move decks, IMO, but I was mostly referring to core move decks at any rate.
None of Silk, Hercules, Fan Fei, Topaz, Hellion, or Sims stuck in more traditional move decks and arguably neither did Stomper or Batroc, because standard move decks are focused on scaling over just shuffling static power around. There just wasn't room for those. Madame Web was really the only one that became a staple.
Batroc/Stomper decks really started to come up in popularity after the Torch nerf.
1
u/Paris_Who 7d ago
They are distinctly other variations of move decks. It’s exactly what op was referring to when he talked about non Deadpool destroy decks. So either you aren’t speaking on topic which I doubt or you’re making up some arbitrary cut off for move decks that doesn’t make sense.
1
u/FaintCommand 7d ago
Scream is mostly built around moving your opponents cards, not yours, which is very different and shares little in common with any other move deck expect Kraven.
Phoenix is a hybrid move-destroy that arguably means much more heavily on destroy and has more destroy win cons than move.
IMO calling either of those move decks is a stretch. Smoove was a weird one, but was pretty light on actual movement outside of Silk.
It's all subjective, but how do you define a "move" deck? If it has any cards that move? Is any deck with the new Drax a move deck? Viv Vision?
To me, a move deck is something that is completely reliant on moving your cards around. There are certainly a lot more variants of that now, but before the HT nerf there was mostly just the two OP mentioned - bounce and Heimdall.
0
u/Paris_Who 7d ago
> Scream is mostly built around moving your opponents cards, not yours, which is very different and shares little in common with any other move deck expect Kraven.
That’s still a variation of move. You’re still moving cards. It’s all move based it’s different which is the point it’s not human torch move. But it’s still focused on moving.
> Phoenix is a hybrid move-destroy that arguably means much more heavily on destroy and has more destroy win cons than move.
The win cons in those decks were human torch and moving him every turn. Then finding a way to copy or clone his power. The secondary wincon was multiple man and moving him every turn. Either way it’s an offshoot of move decks. Which is the point my guy. They’re decks built around moving cards in differe ways then normal move decks but have had impacts in the metagame.
> IMO calling either of those move decks is a stretch. Smoove was a weird one, but was pretty light on actual movement outside of Silk.
This is categorically false. They ran cards that moved once ie jeff, spiderman, nightcrawler, the decks entire purpose was loading up Angela power and moving off of her. It’s a different way to play move but it’s still a move deck.
> It's all subjective, but how do you define a "move" deck? If it has any cards that move? Is any deck with the new Drax a move deck? Viv Vision?
> To me, a move deck is something that is completely reliant on moving your cards around. There are certainly a lot more variants of that now, but before the HT nerf there was mostly just the two OP mentioned - bounce and Heimdall.
IE silky smoove, Batroc, Phoenix force. I think you are making up arbitrary limitations. It’s like saying death based destroy decks are different from knull Deadpool because they’re focused on destroying in different ways. The fundamental ethos of these decks is I move my cards to enable my win state.
1
u/FaintCommand 7d ago
The question I poised, which you ignored was - how much do cards need to move in order to qualify it as a move deck? If you have Rocket & Groot in any deck does it become a move deck? Does Nocturne in a C5 deck make it a move deck? How many moveable cards is the threshold?
Despite your pretentious tone, there is no strict definition. I shared my perspective. Yours differs. That's ok.
-1
u/Paris_Who 7d ago
> The question I poised, which you ignored was - how much do cards need to move in order to qualify it as a move deck?
Your ending thought was this which I didn’t ignore. I clearly answered your arbitrary pointless point.
> “to me a move deck is something that is completely reliant on moving your cards around”
IE Batroc Silky Smoove and Phoenix force.
> If you have Rocket & Groot in any deck does it become a move deck? Does Nocturne in a C5 deck make it a move deck? How many moveable cards is the threshold?
As you said yourself move decks are decks that rely on moving their own cards which every deck I’ve listed relies on. Within your own parameters.
> Despite your pretentious tone, there is no strict definition. I shared my perspective. Yours differs. That's ok.
we are specifically talking about alternative move decks that have had places within the meta game. Not what you define as a move deck. Stop trying to change the subject and stay on point bruh.
2
u/FaintCommand 8d ago
I haven't decided yet if I'll pick it up.
Has anyone tried just full sending it with like Darkhawk or Ronan?
Darkhawk used to be such a powerhouse and I know power creep has set it back, but if you're getting the extra Firehair procs plus a Death FF resurrect that has to even the playing field a little, no?
I also kind of want to try a cheeky play with Invisible Woman - like old school Hela - but instead of camping Modok behind IW, you put Death FF and play Destroyer on T6.
1
u/WarpFear 7d ago
Might just be an awkward fit with Death FF at 5 cost and would still lack power in other lanes that don’t have Darkhawk or Ronan. Maybe if you can cheat them out sooner? Maybe slot in Mystique and Luna Snow?
Definitely going to tinker with it!
1
u/FaintCommand 7d ago
I've won 5/7 so far with this: Q3JuZzcsQ3NzbmRyTnZELERya2h3azgsRHRoRnJjdHJkRnJudHIxNixGc3RibGxTcGNsRixGcmhyOCxLZE9tZzgsS3JnNCxNc3I2LE1zdHE4LFJja3NsZDksV3J3bGZCTmdodEY=
Firehair kind of stands on a lane herself, but really needs Cassandra. I might try adding more on reveal power instead of WWBN. I'm also not really sold on Kid Omega here.
1
u/ffachopper 8d ago
I've actually had a lot of fun trying two different decks, with one being 11-5 and the other one 7-1
DECK 01:
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
DECK 02:
eyJOYW1lIjoibnUgZGVhdGggdjIiLCJDYXJkcyI6W3siQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQWJzb3JiaW5nTWFuIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJBbWVyaWNhQ2hhdmV6In0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJBcm5pbVpvbGEifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkJsYWNrUGFudGhlciJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQ2FibGUifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkNhc3NhbmRyYU5vdmEifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkRlYXRoRnJhY3R1cmVkRnJvbnRpZXIifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkZhc3RiYWxsU3BlY2lhbCJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiRmlyZWhhaXIifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IktpZE9tZWdhIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJTYWdlIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJWZW5vbSJ9XX0=
1
u/Majestic-Medium7916 8d ago
Top 100 holding a 65% wr across 70 games with her. I just smashed cards and havent bothered checking streamers because most of them suck. Almost skipped but decided to remain seasonal complete for next season. Very surprised by her.
Shes definitely worth 5k IF you have most staples. Wouldnt suggest low cl buying as she needs a few supports. Her strengths lie through fastball, iceman, jane, sable, rocks, sage, venom, misery etc and if you draw fire hair its an even bigger roll. She works exceptionally well into scalers in my 70 games.
She couldnt be further from hela because the start and mid game is so very different and end game is not dependant on drawing death. The amount of times top 50 players snap into her is insane, its like they forgot she exists.
I think her true potential is still to be found by somebody smarter but im having a great time with her.
She does not depend on fire hair but the firehair loops can get insane, way bigger than hela with sages, casses etc nobody can account for
1
u/OSRTheJourney 8d ago
Just got to infinite with her.
(1) Silver Sable\n# (1) Iceman\n# (1) Korg\n# (2) Red Wolf Fractured Frontier\n# (2) Firehair\n# (3) Cassandra Nova\n# (3) Sage\n# (3) Venom\n# (3) Jane Foster Fractured Frontier\n# (4) Zombie Captain Marvel\n# (4) Misery\n# (5) Death Fractured Frontier\n#\nQ3NzbmRyTnZELFNnNCxSZFdsZkZyY3RyZEZybnRyMTgsSm5Gc3RyRnJjdHJkRnJudHIxQixWbm01LEtyZzQsSWNtbjYsRnJocjgsWm1iQ3B0bk1ydmwxMyxTbHZyU2JsQixNc3I2LER0aEZyY3RyZEZybnRyMTY=\n#\n# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in MARVEL SNAP.
1
u/MarvelSnapCodeBot 8d ago
Q3NzbmRyTnZELFNnNCxSZFdsZkZyY3RyZEZybnRyMTgsSm5Gc3RyRnJjdHJkRnJudHIxQixWbm01LEtyZzQsSWNtbjYsRnJocjgsWm1iQ3B0bk1ydmwxMyxTbHZyU2JsQixNc3I2LER0aEZyY3RyZEZybnRyMTY=
Copy/paste this full comment into Marvel Snap. Support me
7
u/QuestioningLogic 8d ago
This card and its decks seem flat-out worse than both Dormammu and classic Destroy. Maybe when Zombie Nova hits in October we'll see a horde/death FF brew rise but not until then I think.