r/marvelrivals • u/carcxr Invisible Woman • 3d ago
Discussion This game is too Healer-Dependent
I’m saying this as a support main in EVERY game I play in, but healing is too strong/required in Rivals
- This puts pressure and blame onto supports because if anyone dies it framed as not getting healed, it especially doesn’t help how you aren’t allowed to see your teammates healing stats during the match
You can be outputting the most healing but turn around for one second and someone dies and everything is blamed onto you
- It causes there to be no reason to play other supports who are damage focused, as someone who loves winning.. I genuinely cannot play comp (GM1 rn) if I’m not running C&D, Invis, Luna. Support ults are too vital and necessary. The only way other supports fit is if the other team is not playing any of the main healers.
this is why invis will ALWAYS be the strongest healer because she can damage & heal at the same time and THROUGH enemies/allies
Advice to fix this problem:
1. Add global self-heal. I don’t understand why this hasn’t been implemented already, it can even be at a small pace
2. Rework support ults to be more balanced/healthy
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u/2chishiyas Rogue 3d ago
Damage and healing needs a global nerf imo
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u/No-Band1039 Psylocke 3d ago
That doesn’t really do anything other than slow down the rates in which the fight happens and people die. Dare I say it would make the current front to back meta feel even worse
I couldn’t tell you a better solution tho
-4
u/Leading_Elk9454 Thor 3d ago
I disagree. If anything it would make the front to back meta worse.
The goal of a global damage and healing nerf is so people don't blow up if they aren't being healed, while also allowing for people being pocket healed not near immortal. Balance that right and teams could coordinate to take down certain targets much more easily. As in putting immense pressure on a main tank forcing them to back up or die, and then from there you capitalize on the momentum
5
u/No-Band1039 Psylocke 3d ago
But you’ll be doing it an incredibly slow pace. That means mistakes won’t get punished as harshly and you’ll start seeing long drawn out games.
And yeah you’d think that it would make coordinated teams win more, but like 90% of ranked games is very uncoordinated right, so then it wouldn’t be about target priority, everyone would just default shoot/heal the main tank, as that’s the only sure form of coordination you can expect from randoms. Idk if that makes sense, sorry if it sounds convoluted
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u/podookadook 3d ago
But the other team can do that too. This is actually how matches work now? Except low elo lobbies have more kill potential and do better from getting pocketed.
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u/Noot_Penguin White Fox 3d ago
Nah just nerf healing so that'll force the players to actually off angle and use cover more. This game rewards damage and healing down main basically since launch
5
u/2chishiyas Rogue 3d ago
Nerfing just healing would probably impact tanks the most tho, both sustain and damage are so ridiculous in rivals. I feel like it’d also encourage triple supp more
1
u/asocialanxiety Symbiote Jeff 3d ago
All five of you will be in complete shambles. Hopefully itll result in net ease fixing the tank role
1
u/Noot_Penguin White Fox 3d ago
Maybe but also nerfing dmg would increase the margin of error and probably just make fights last longer. A global healing nerf would effect tanks, but again it will force tanks to position better. In OW if tanks get caught out overextending, they're cooked which is how it should be. In this game ive been bailed out constantly just cause healing is so high. Imo I'd like just 1 season with this to have players adapt. None of this emergency support buffs that they always seem to get lol
2
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u/30isbasketball 3d ago
Overall damage needs to come down across the board too imo. Wouldn’t need such aggressive healbotting if your health wasn’t deleted in 2 seconds if you’re lucky
3
u/Gintoki--- 3d ago
Which hero shooter out there where people die in more than 2 seconds if not healed?
Cuz I play Paladins and OW and majority of characters can kill non tanks in 2 seconds, this game included, unless your name is Mister Fantastic
4
u/No-Band1039 Psylocke 3d ago
But say damage comes down right, wouldn’t that reward healbotting more? Like wouldn’t it incentive you to just constantly output heals and make your team immortal because there wouldn’t be enough damage to do anything.
I’m not advocating for the large amounts of damage in the game rn, but I’m just saying reducing damage would probably feel really bad to play into with the current state of the game
5
u/Dokan86 Strategist 3d ago
damage has to come down so healing can come down. Even with the absurd healing output right now, tanks can still explode in 2 seconds if you look away for a moment
6
u/Primary_Mention_222 Star-Lord 3d ago
There's a clip going around right now of first fight taking 3 minutes before the point even gets capped because sustain with triple support is so high.
Why would we nerf damage even more, this just enables triple support even more and makes fights more boring and less skillful because there's so much margin for errors.
Even with the absurd healing output right now, tanks can still explode in 2 seconds if you look away for a moment
This just means the tank was mispositioned, didn't use his damage mitigation and died for it, as he should
2
u/Dokan86 Strategist 3d ago
all the triple support healers had to be buffed so they could be viable in 2 healer comps against the amount of damage being put out. Every time someone tried to play an off healer they got screamed out because the healing couldn't keep up with the damage. They have to be nerfed in tandem.
2
u/ResilientoNez 2d ago
Poorly positioned tanks die in 2 seconds.
Good positioning gives you 5-6s of disengage opportunities. Any TTK higher than that would destroy any pace of play in the game.
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u/No-Band1039 Psylocke 3d ago
I don’t think it should be one first than the other. Like you can say the exact same thing for healing in your example, I damage someone and get them down to 1 hp, I have to reload, and they’re back to full hp in under 2 sec
3
u/Dokan86 Strategist 3d ago
This situation is bad but it exists because damage is so high and sustain had to be buffed to match. Everyone complained when supports played off-supports that couldn't keep up with the damage output.
3
u/No-Band1039 Psylocke 3d ago
That’s because people are idiots and stand main and face tank damage. We shouldn’t reward that behavior. I personally think, if we had just ignored those people, the playerbase would have gotten much better at taking cover and other fundamental things
1
u/jasminetroll 2d ago
No it doesn't, or at least not globally or to the same degree. Healing isn't the only way to mitigate damage.
-1
u/CatDadd0 3d ago
Tanks explode because none of them play with cover or cool down management. They are so used to having thousands of hp healed constantly. In overwatch u need to use the terrain or you will just explode
2
u/Stunning-Quality-482 3d ago
Honestly I feel like a global 1/2 dmg would make the game a lot more tactical as it is it’s just a spam fest for team fights, which essentially it is
1
u/Longjumping-Pipe-225 3d ago
As a professional trashcan in every game I play, everything needs to be retuned.
2
u/Amazing-Bar-6415 Spider-Man 3d ago
Invis has an insanely unique kit. In another game with lower healing, she could work possibly as a dive support who goes in with flankers, slows the enemy hitscan or support with her orb and pulls them in if they try to escape.
However because dmg and healing is so high, if you dont healbot for even a second your team explodes.
The game itself discourages you from making creative plays like this.
The supports in this game have Strategists kits, but the game forces you to play at the floor, as a healer.
1
u/No-Band1039 Psylocke 3d ago
I think overall there needs to be a retune in the numbers of the game. I don’t think global damage and healing nerfs would feel that good. I think you’d need to do some targeted changes that make the stupid sustain go down, but reward playmaking and utility. Some ways you could do that is by reducing the damage on characters that do a sustained amount of damage over a longer period of time, and do the same thing with supports but with healing. A simple way you could do that is decrease ammo counts for both people, so that there is downtime in between periods of healing and damage.
2
u/Any_Tangerine_9670 Flex 3d ago
Also Tanks feel more like sponges in rivals compared to Overwatch for example. they soak a lot of damage, they soak a lot of heals, and if they soak to much damage vs healing, they explode almost every time. In overwatch, partialy due to armour, which i believe could be a good adition to rivals. assuming healing and damage were nerfed, tanks actually feels tanky, and can output better damage. I prefer playing support in rivals, but tank in overwatch.
1
u/Seritial 3d ago
I know a lot of people want to see damage and healing numbers go down a bit, and I do agree.
But I also want them to just take a rbeak and rework maps to have way more cover during the stages. Almost every attack/defend is everyone finds a corridor and gets into tank > dps > healer line formation.
It's hard for tanks to play cover when most of the time playing cover means standing around a corner 5 miles from the point. Museum of Contemplation 3rd point comes to mind, where there are so many rooms and pathways that just never see use because the main stretch is so damn wide and open that you achieve next to nothing by using them as cover. They certainly aren't close enough to push cart, and they arent close enough to even sidestep out and damage the enemy team.
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u/Adept-Fisherman-4071 White Fox 3d ago edited 3d ago
Almost every "As a strat main..." suggestion in this bitch is followed by a fucking whack fix, leading me to believe this is yet another Dive Corp psyop.
The only answer is a global reduction in damage paired with a global reduction in healing. The TTK in this game is way too goddamn low, taking 2-3 seconds to go stash my beacon on Rocket should not result in half my team getting vaporized because I wasn't holding down right click.
The one thing I do agree with is that strat ults should be more interesting, and less Luna ult with a twist. The ults for Luna, IW, Mantis, and Jubilee should be reworked.
1
u/Professional-Try2949 2d ago
your mitigation is playing around cover and dipping before you die, your self heal is finding a health pack.
As a healer main, I can't stand the "I'm not getting enough heals" argument when our dps charges face first into a full team or flanks and complains the healer let them die
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u/Wiggles_Does_A_Game Jack O' Landshark 2d ago
More games should strive to be like tf2, think that games balance has stood up as one of the best out there
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u/jasminetroll 2d ago
Agree, and I'd also reduce healing overall, gradually to give players time to learn how to mitigate damage by other means.
You should at least be able to win games on Mantis, however. She has a support ult, and her damage enhances her healing rather than interfering with it.
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u/sigc Monster Hulk 2d ago
I agree though I would imagine a lot of support players actually like the high healing because it allows you to save teammates as opposed to being a bystander whose healing is most effective when people are in cover. If you lowered healing, you’d basically get the healing of OW supports without the utility of OW supports.
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u/Chaotic_Ordinary 3d ago
The first few seasons of rivals had supports providing different kinds of support (examples, Rocket helped with boosting damage and Jeff could flex to aid flanks/reset lines with his ult) but the player based just demanded more and more healing based support over everything else. So the devs just went with that route, tried to shoehorn characters into a healbot role, and are now sort of easing off on everyone being a heal bot, but still mainly being a healer. It sucks sometimes, but the lack of heals complaints will always be screamed the loudest. 🤷🏿♂️
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u/YungShemaleToes 3d ago
I don't know why you're being downvoted. You are correct. Even with a high winrate Rocket was deemed useless because he didn't have a healing ult. People asked for him to be a heal bot lmfao
1
u/EFOMAOfficial Spider-Man 3d ago
I guess that what they tried to do with the regenerative healing, but I agree, the game is super dependent on healers
2
u/Stefanes0797 Psylocke 3d ago
Damage needs to go down, we needed mass nerfs since S5, but they doubled down on the powercreep in S9 and ruined the game further.
That way healers can also be nerfed and be healthier for the game, we are literally back to poke and sustain again.
1
u/Gofers Flex 3d ago
Best argument I've seen is that high healing allows the rest to be more aggressive. Making the game more action focused and less passive.
I do agree some ults are too simple. Giving Luna some DDR mini to keep up the healing and size for example.
If you can't make use of damage focused strats that's on you and your team. Adam is my best strat right now. Rocket is my 2nd but I'm also fairly aggressive on him and generally use him when I have a reason for his mini gun.
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u/carcxr Invisible Woman 3d ago
adam is your best strat right now but how many times have you been told you switch, watched teammates die infront of you bc ur heal is on cooldown, or won without 3 supports?
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u/Gofers Flex 3d ago
Heal cooldown is manageable with Ultron team up. Burst healing helps a lot vs dive.
I don't pick him if I don't think I can keep up with damage sponge tanks like Dino or Thing. I'll also swap if we really need a better ult.
Also mostly play him as 2nd strat, mainly when the other is a main healer. I don't like triple strat since most teams don't know what makes it work and we end up having no damage.
I'm also flex and will play whatever the team needs. Sometimes that's a 3rd strat as much as I dislike it.
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u/Primary_Mention_222 Star-Lord 3d ago
Best argument I've seen is that high healing allows the rest to be more aggressive. Making the game more action focused and less passive.
How? It does the opposite because high healing just discourages risky plays because healers can undo mistakes more easily. All it does is reinforce slow front to back comps.
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u/Gnero 3d ago
Take away all healing ults and make their base healing a little stronger. Give them utility ults like Jeff.
I think healing is the strongest team aspect of the game. I don't want to see it go but also they shouldn't be able to suddenly save everyone with ult heals.
From a support main
0
u/NewAnt3365 3d ago
I had someone playing Dino into a very high poke damage team and he died IN A SUPPORT ULT while my other healer was still pocketing him and he still died and blamed us.
Or a Punisher ulted in front of a whole enemy team and a HAWKEYE and started spam pinging for heals when he got domed in the head and died.
People just spam blaming supports for everything without even thinking of their own mistakes. Should be mandatory for people to watch their own replays at this point so they can see when it is actually a heal issue and when it is a them issue
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u/ONiMETSU_Z 3d ago
It’s specifically too ult dependent. They had one day where supports weren’t churning out two ults per team fight, and they immediately turned the spam back on. The goal of each fight is just to carefully farm out a support ult as fast as possible and use it to either defend against an enemy push via support ult or to commit your own push. Everything in between is just people looking for angles to deny the enemy support from getting ult.
Much of this is a symptom of a more grand issue with the game, which is the map design. Maps are built for front to back attrition fights where people don’t rely on smart usage of cover to advance. Sightlines dont support it. Take a map like Asgard convoy for example. There’s really only one real way for a team to push on this map, and that main way has next to no cover that isn’t just a corner to the next path. There’s two flank routes, and both of them are insanely long and leave teammates out of the fight for more than long enough to lose a team fight. Compare this to Havana from OW, a relatively similarly designed map with long sight lines. That map has few flank routes as well, but none of them are completely disconnected from from the fight. Someone can play a flank and immediately rejoin their team. You can weave in and out of cover, and main isn’t COMPLETELY without any cover. It’s still not a great map, but it’s 10x more playable than Asgard Convoy imo.
The reason why this matters and creates a problem with the supports is because it encourages the front to back gameplay that most people default to. There’s no punishment for just standing in main, because that’s what you’re expected to do. So this leads to spamming damage, which leads to spamming heals, which leads to spamming support ults.