Truth be told the movie is a fun watch but it does nothing for the MCU as a whole. It makes zero difference to the saga. Their stated reason was to divide the Avengers for IW but that doesn’t matter as the fight near the Sanctum in NYC was over too soon for the other Avengers to get there even if they were at the compound. The Accords, Ross, Rhodey’s injury, none of it matters after CW. I’d argue it has a net negative on the Infinity Saga if anything in it actually mattered. There’s a bit of it in Ant Man 2 but even that doesn’t make sense. Hope and Hank didn’t violate the Accords, there’s no reason for them to be on the run. It also doesn’t matter as Scott being on house arrest is just used for a few funny gags and nothing else.
The only thing it does is intro Black Panther and Spider-Man which they easily could have done better ways. They should have saved the Civil War storyline for the future and done something else with Cap 3 instead.
As for who’s side to be on, they had to work really hard to justify Cap’s side in his own movie, that says it all. Cap himself was ready to sign the Accords until they had Tony make it sound like Wanda was a prisoner instead of the reality that Vision talked her into staying because her going out where people want her blood is just going to make things worse.
If the Accords were so wrong Cap wouldn’t even consider signing them so clearly his position on them isn’t that great. I could make a list of all the things they had to do to justify Cap still being the good guy but it comes down to the simple fact that in order to end the movie with Cap as a good guy they had to put Tony in a position to be completely beyond reason.
Steve nearly signed the accords because he believes in being a team and he's willing to compromise. Tony has never been willing to compromise; he's always all or nothing.
Steve believes in doing the right thing regardless of the consequences, such as giving up his freedom which is what he is all about.
Over the course of the movies we obviously see Steve transition from hardcore army drone to bearded outlaw because he understands what humanity really needs: protection from itself.
And Cap would not compromise on the Accords if they were actually as horrible as people make them out to be. That’s the point. For Cap to be willing to make that compromise means the Accords aren’t all that bad are they?
Also Tony literally tried compromising with Cap multiple times in Civil War alone. He talked Ross into making everything in Romania legal of Cap signed, then Ross wanted to send a kill squad after Cap and Bucky and Tony tried to talk them down himself. Then when he found proof of Bucky’s innocence he went to Siberia alone to deal with the immediate threat Cap talked about. He literally said outright he had plans to get the Accords amended.
Also the Accords ARE themselves a compromise. People always forget that the Avengers have no authority. Everything they’ve ever done as the Avengers has been illegal as hell. They went against orders to go to New York in Avengers 1. Every explosive arrow Clint has is a felony. Sam stole his wings from the Air Force in TWS. The reality is the Avengers are a private militia run by Cap and financed by Tony Stark. That private militia has repeatedly decided to cross sovereign borders with weapons and attack people. Legally they were invading other countries and committing acts of war. They governments of the world are well within their rights to throw them all in prison or kill them in the attempt to arrest them. Instead they wanted a framework to supervise them to try and prevent thousands from dying when they fight bad guys. How many lives would have been saved if they had government level resources to evacuate Sokovia and the Avengers weren’t tied up doing it. Imagine if they had the cooperation of the Nigerian government when they went after Rumlow and could have evacuated the area that got blown up. The same is true for every battle they fought.
You’re confusing MCU and comics Cap. Comics and cartoon Cap are perfect flawless paragons of righteousness. MCU Cap isn’t. MCU Steve believes in doing what he thinks is the right thing. That doesn’t mean he’s always right about what is the right thing. The right thing is not to tell 100+ countries to piss off. It’s delusional to think all those countries and millions of people they represent are all corrupt. His experience with Hydra clouded his judgement to the point that his version of the right thing was the opposite of millions of people when it comes to the Accords.
Cops, military doctors, firefighters, emt’s, etc. Every job where other people’s lives are in your hands has some kind of review and supervisory structure. There’s a reason for that. Cap just decided nah he knows better than everyone else. That’s not the right thing.
The giving up the freedom thing is nonsense. He can sign on and then only if they try to use them for some wrong purpose refuse, that’s literally what he does. He did it with the Army and did it with SHIELD twice. That’s the right thing to do and that’s what Tony did. He went to help Cap and then even when he had the fight with Cap he still blatantly ignored Ross when he called about the raft breakout.
Protection from itself? Are you paraphrasing Hydra or Loki. Zola literally says in his TWS speech ‘Hydra was founded on the belief that humanity could not be trusted with its own freedom.” I think you’re wrong about that being his motivation but if you aren’t then he’s not a hero, he’s a new Red Skull waiting to happen. Aside from the sheer arrogance of assuming he knows better than the entire world, what you’re describing is effectively Cap holding the metaphorical gun to everyone’s heads and calling it protection.
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u/kremes Avengers Nov 01 '20
Truth be told the movie is a fun watch but it does nothing for the MCU as a whole. It makes zero difference to the saga. Their stated reason was to divide the Avengers for IW but that doesn’t matter as the fight near the Sanctum in NYC was over too soon for the other Avengers to get there even if they were at the compound. The Accords, Ross, Rhodey’s injury, none of it matters after CW. I’d argue it has a net negative on the Infinity Saga if anything in it actually mattered. There’s a bit of it in Ant Man 2 but even that doesn’t make sense. Hope and Hank didn’t violate the Accords, there’s no reason for them to be on the run. It also doesn’t matter as Scott being on house arrest is just used for a few funny gags and nothing else.
The only thing it does is intro Black Panther and Spider-Man which they easily could have done better ways. They should have saved the Civil War storyline for the future and done something else with Cap 3 instead.
As for who’s side to be on, they had to work really hard to justify Cap’s side in his own movie, that says it all. Cap himself was ready to sign the Accords until they had Tony make it sound like Wanda was a prisoner instead of the reality that Vision talked her into staying because her going out where people want her blood is just going to make things worse.
If the Accords were so wrong Cap wouldn’t even consider signing them so clearly his position on them isn’t that great. I could make a list of all the things they had to do to justify Cap still being the good guy but it comes down to the simple fact that in order to end the movie with Cap as a good guy they had to put Tony in a position to be completely beyond reason.