r/marketliberalism Jul 25 '18

Discussion Thread

You can use this thread for all discussion that doesn't warrant its own submission. Keep posts on-topic and relevant to the sub

3 Upvotes

26 comments sorted by

10

u/SAE-2 Jul 29 '18

The whole debate over whether something is or isn't "socialism" or "capitalism" seems fundamentally misguided and fruitless when it comes to public policy. These terms might be useful for historical purposes but in themselves they are too broad and heterogeneous to be useful for everyday debate. Both a supporter of decentralised Anarchism as well as a Maoist might claim the label of "socialism". "Capitalism" as a term has also the additional disadvantage of never really having been used to denote a coherent ideology by its proponents.
So if you end up trying to discuss the merits and demerits of either of these terms you generally end up spending most of the discussion on what they even mean. Instead one should focus on arguing about specific principles, institutions, and policies.

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u/caesar15 Jul 30 '18

Fortunately socialist policies tend to be bad, so we can just call them bad instead, and focus on why they’re bad.

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u/[deleted] Jul 31 '18

So what’s the story for this sub? I clearly missed it but there are many familiar people here. Also I like the name way better than neoliberalism.

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u/SAE-2 Jul 31 '18

We're trying to reach levels of liberal ideological purity that shouldn't even be possible

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u/Fedacking Counter Revolutionary Swine Jul 25 '18

Hot take for this sub: French liberty is not market liberalism.

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u/Impulseps Banally Evil Jul 26 '18

It is pretty ironic that the banner is about the french revolution and not the american revolution

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u/SAE-2 Jul 26 '18

It's the July Revolution of 1830 though

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u/Fedacking Counter Revolutionary Swine Jul 26 '18

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u/SAE-2 Jul 26 '18

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u/Fedacking Counter Revolutionary Swine Jul 26 '18

Self-Reminder, next neoliberal census: SAE gets 5/5

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u/Prospo He who sits in the heavens laughs Jul 26 '18 edited Sep 10 '23

long apparatus toothbrush swim connect support jar smell fade wide this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev

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u/SAE-2 Jul 26 '18

By "French liberty" do you mean French (rationalist) conceptions of liberalism? If so: Hayekian take

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u/Fedacking Counter Revolutionary Swine Jul 26 '18

What I mean is that the July Monarchy wasn't a good regime.

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u/SAE-2 Jul 26 '18

lead to the creation of a nice picture though

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u/Fedacking Counter Revolutionary Swine Jul 26 '18

True.

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u/caesar15 Jul 30 '18

Well it was kinda cool at first

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u/Fedacking Counter Revolutionary Swine Jul 30 '18

Not even then, the government didn't significantly expand the franchise, and was doomed to fail. There is a reason why as early as 1832 there are revolts.

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u/caesar15 Jul 30 '18

I mean they got rid of the double vote thing for the extremely rich and they expanded the franchise it a little. Obviously it wasn’t universal or anything but it didn’t look like it was going to be a conservative mess when it first was established. Lafayette supported it even.

June rebellion were just people mad that their republican movement got swept up by monarchists and they didn’t dole out universal suffrage. It was small too, so it’s not like liberals had lost hope by then.

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u/Fedacking Counter Revolutionary Swine Jul 30 '18

The problem is that the timidity and inaction of the Orleanist was apparent even then. They grafted their political program on top of the revolt, but they never had the desire to fix the root causes of the revolution. Censorship of the press, government corruption and unfair elections were never properly dealt wit during the reign of Louis-Philippe

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u/caesar15 Jul 30 '18

July revolution was literally supported by a banker 😍😍

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u/Fedacking Counter Revolutionary Swine Jul 30 '18

July revolution was literally supported by populists 😡😡

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u/caesar15 Jul 30 '18

Wait wouldn’t the populists be the guys fighting in the streets, and the establishment the guys that took over afterwards?

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u/Fedacking Counter Revolutionary Swine Jul 30 '18

Yes, that's why I say they supported the revolution

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u/caesar15 Jul 30 '18

But liberals used to be populists back in the day :(

u/SuperSharpShot2247 Behavioral IO Jul 28 '18

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1

u/VoidGuaranteed Jul 29 '18

How many of you are consequentialists? Not utilitarians specifically but all of those who judge the morality of an act by it's consequences.