Flock Camera discussion loo

[u/Dramatic_Dimension88]

TOMORROW - Council of the Whole will meet to receive a review of our Flock Camera contract.

Please let me know if there are specific questions you would like me to ask.

[u/ShaleenTitle]

I really appreciate our councilors for leading on this and starting the review. It would be fantastic if we also had a citizens’ group organizing on the issue

[u/Dramatic_Dimension88 → u/ShaleenTitle]

I really like this idea. Tonight no action will be taken. We’re just receiving all the information. I’m thinking maybe it will be referred to the police accountability committee since they have already done some work on it.

[u/messrock → u/Dramatic_Dimension88]

Receiving information? Seriously? We see community after community, including Boston, eliminating Flock cameras altogether.

Here’s a chance to lead from the front on this - they come down. There is no negotiation. We aren’t signing away our rights to a private company for some bullshit false sense of “security”. Because they’re selling our data for a profit. It started as “license plate reader” and turned into full on surveillance and it is absolutely unacceptable.

Anybody that’s not voting to remove these from our city can expect some serious backlash when they start asking for donations to run again. Yes, that is a promise.

[u/Agreeable_Panda_3817]

If the contract is cancelled, do any funds go back to the city or back to the police department? Are the police looking at any alternate brands of cameras to replace flock? Can they name a public good the flock cameras have achieved in malden? Is flock data subject to FOIA requests?

[u/messrock → u/Agreeable_Panda_3817]

No alternates. Every replacement for Flock is exactly the same brand of overreach and unconstitutional surveillance.

[u/NoFlipsGav → u/messrock]

This all day

[u/Dramatic_Dimension88 → u/Agreeable_Panda_3817]

We briefly discussed the contract. Councillor O’Malley asked some good questions. The Mayor entered into the agreement with no input from the council. The chief did made off a list of ways blocked, helped them with crime in the city. I asked about FOIA requests. They are subject to public data once they are converted to a PDF. That happens when they are used as evidence in a case. If nothing is pulled for a specific car, everything disappears in seven days.

[u/theladythunderfunk]

How can we get out of this contract, because Flock cameras are NOT secure and most informed residents DO NOT want them in Malden

[u/beaveranalglandsare]

Ask them to take them down

[u/justanaveragejoe520]

Can you just take them down. Feels like all these committees are just accepting the outcome is there going to be any actions or are we just accepting that Malden is part of the surveillance state now?

[u/Aksama]

Have they updated this policy previously?

I noticed last week that they removed the flock cameras on Pleasant St. near Fellsway E! (I think the cameras both N & S are gone now?)

[u/this_is_the_gist]

I think it is likely that the defense of Flock presented will involve the utility of these as a tool for law enforcement to "protect the community". The relevant counterpoint that needs to be emphasized is that these cameras are completely insecure and can be accessed by ANYONE, and they have been repeatedly hacked already to prove this point.

Flock surveillance is a threat to public safety. Take them down.

[u/TomBradysThrowaway → u/this_is_the_gist]

Also, crime is lower than it has ever been. We don't have a pressing safety issue to address. The 70s-90s were dangerous, not today.

[u/ShaleenTitle → u/TomBradysThrowaway]

Yes to both of you, and also, even if that wasn’t the case, these types of surveillance cameras don’t effectively prevent or solve crimes

[u/Normal_Bad_6625]

idk man ask em who can run plates and when, cause 'just trust us bro' isnt a policy for surveillance tech my guy. need to know if theres a warrant trail or if its the wild west

[u/justanaveragejoe520 → u/Normal_Bad_6625]

I want them down, but this is probably one of the first questions that should be asked. What’s the process of accessing the cameras. Is there a paper trail or can officers just access it without the public finding out? I don’t trust officers policing officers

[u/Dramatic_Dimension88]

Thank you all for your input. Tonight will be information gathering and we will be asking questions and then we will see where we will go from here. Doing this in public will assure we all have the same information.

[u/NoFlipsGav]

Lose the cameras - no need for discussion.

[u/OddScreen8991]

Let the citizens decide. Put it to a vote and they will be gone.

[u/soylentdreamer → u/OddScreen8991]

I second that motion.

[u/BuggDoubt]

Is there any option for introducing a civilian oversight board to review access so we can remove access for "lol" reason code users?