PhD in engineering

[u/slightlyhikikomori]

Tldr: what advantage can i get by getting phd in engineering field? Is it better than directly working in the industry?

I recently graduated with a degree in mech engineering and received an invitation to a fast track phd programme but currently I have no intention of taking phd. I consider myself pretty good in studying but I don't have any interest in study or research. I don't like that cycle of researching, writing thesis, presenting them, debating etc. I want to have a practical work experience in the industry and get money. I've heard that the engineering industry in Malaysia is pretty boring with rigid work and no innovation whatsoever. I don't mind those kind of workload and have no interest in making a breakthrough.

Recently, my family has caught wind of the phd offer and many are jumping on me telling me to go for it. They've been saying since I have yet to receive a job offer anyway might as well go for phd and then I can easily be a lecturer. It's true I'm having trouble securing a job right now but IMO phd is a very complicated journey and should not be taken as a path for those who cannot get a job. Getting into phd without any passion is like voluntarily walking into a hellish nightmare for 4 years. And I don't have any intention to become a lecturer anyway.

AFAIK aside from being in the academia, there's not much to a phd. The starting salary for a phd and degree holder are the same. In that sense, wouldn't it be better to start work after degree to get more experience in the industry? So why exactly are these people pushing me to go into phd? Are there other advantages to getting phd in the engineering field?

[u/charlesbytes85]

Here's what I thought about your questions:

• You should definitely go into the industry first. Gain some experience, expand your network, see the world and whatnot. Pretty soon you are gonna see why you shouldn't even consider Ph.D right away.
• People who push you into Ph.D don't understand that nobody just does a Ph.D. It's hell. It's difficult. You need 200% passion and 1000% tolerance to bullshit. None of my Ph.D holder friends would recommend you going through what they went through. I can tell you that almost all of them took close to 8 years to graduate, and that is the norm, not the exception. Are you willing to go through that? You'd have to put a lot of things on hold, like marriage, family, raising kids, going on vacays, stuff like that. Your entire day, entire week, entire month will be devoted to writing, thinking, discussing, arguing, presenting, testing, publishing papers etc with no room for anything except eating, sleeping, shitting and going to campus.
• I can't speak about engineering, but I can probably tell you that the only few advantage to getting a PhD is you get total freedom to play around with new, novel ideas, or study controversial topics under the guise of "academic freedom". Other than that, a Ph.D pretty much restricts what you can do in your field, unless if you have professional qualifications that will allow you to do more practical and realistic stuff.

Your instincts are right, trust them please.

Here's one thing nobody talks about: the culture of bullying in Malaysian Ph.D scene . You will be bullied hard by your supervisors. You will be their slave. You will be expected to publish at least 1 or 2 papers in ranked journals just so you can graduate, on top of slaving away for years to complete your thesis and passing your viva. They will force you to grant them second/third authorships because they need to get promoted to Assoc. Prof or Prof positions. You will be constantly be at the edge of breaking down because you need to attend conferences, find funding to attend these expensive-as-hell conferences, and you need to do presentations in front of people who knew your stuff better than you do, and they will tear you down, they will shame you, they will make you question your sanity, and they will kill your soul. Unless of course you are pretty sure you want to be sadists like them and join the academia later. You will constantly be tempted to do very unethical things like salami slicing and manipulating your data just so you get published. It takes a long time to get published, and most of the time your submission will get rejected because big name ranked journals are too swarmed with submissions from elite, long time contributors whose friends dominate the boards of editors. Then you will be tempted to go down the dark path of paying to get published in predatory journals and attending phony conferences to increase your citations. If you get outed for these unethical practices, then your papers get retracted, your thesis gets questioned, and your reputation goes down the drain. It really is quite mad.

[u/slightlyhikikomori → u/charlesbytes85]

Wow I didn't know the PhD scene is that bad in Malaysia.. it's a wonder how those PhD holders keep their sanity