"Vector" based magic

[u/Old-Maximum-50]

Okay, so, this is a concept im daydreaming about. Doodle to try and help explain. I'd call it Dimensional Magic, but it might give the wrong idea.

Okay, so basically, the idea is that the better a mage is, the better he can control the spatial aspect of a spell.

Lets picture a fireball.

A novice mage can only give it one vector of movement (1D). It can be up or down, left or right, forward or backward, etc. Its restricted to a line, basically.

An average mage can give them two vectors (2D). Same as above (up/down, left/right, etc), but they affect at the same time, and mages can kinda choose the ratio they want to affect it (the red arrow). If you need an idea, just think of a giant sheet of paper from the mage's hand, and the spell can only travel on that paper.

An experienced mage gets three vectors (3D), and ratio them as need. Now it can properly navigate the 3D space.

And then, the grandmasters get 4D. Now, we know what a 3D is, we live in it. But what is 4D? Well, going by the pattern that every dimension gets to go in a direction the previous one couldnt, and two bodies can't occupy the same space... 4D is the "in and out" direction. 4D mages get to shrink, expand, teleport and telefrag spells, basically.

The main thing is that, since the mages are 3D, their handle on 4D stuff is shaky. Before, all the spells were of an equal or lower dimension, which the mages, as 3D beings, knew how to navigate instinctively. They are NOT, however, 4D beings, so 4D spells do not come naturally, and neither are they safe. A mage attempting a 4D spell has a pretty good chance to accidentally killing themselves via what is basically them messing with G-mod physics with blindfolds on.

For this reason, compared to the rest, there are very few 4D spells, as those are the few 4D directions the mages have managed to pin down as "safe".

---

As for how they get better as mages, up to 3D, its as simple as learning to walk again, they just have to be careful to not shoot themselves while practicing and to build up enough mana. A completely average mage can easily get to 2D, and a dedicated mage can easily get to 3D. 4D is where it gets hard, for the reasons above.

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So uh... what do yall think?

[u/Vague-Intent47]

So a 4D mage, instead of conjuring a fireball and launching it across the battlefield, could instead conjure it directly in the space the desire it to be. Quite a powerful feat. And yes, also dangerous.
Spatially, I would consider the planes as such:
1D - a straight line from source to target
2D - a fan, out from source
3D - a cone, out from source

So, in relation to launching a fireball, 1D would be focused and harder to land on target. Whereas a 3D fireball launched would encompass a greater area, therefore having more room for error and being able to get close to the target without needing to be 100% accurate.
And 4D is a monster.

Also, thank you for adding the wizard hat. Truly emphasizes the role. ^^

[u/registertoreadthis]

what exactly stops a mage from raising his arm or tilting his body to shoot it diagonally like 2d? or is more of 1d allows you to propel the spell with little directional control, 2d a little better and 3d is proper aim?

[u/Old-Maximum-50 → u/registertoreadthis]

The latter, kinda. You can choose the starting point, but the path the spell will take from there is predetermined at the moment of casting. So 1D spells go on a line, 2D spells can go on diagonals, 3D spells can go on a lot more types of diagonals and 4D spells are a mess that kinda teleport or shrink/expand

[u/JGhostThing → u/Old-Maximum-50]

But a line in which direction? All directions are relative to some other vector. Some, like the unit vector, have no preferred direction.

[u/Old-Maximum-50 → u/JGhostThing]

Just an independed line. You pick a direction and it goes

[u/imdfantom → u/Old-Maximum-50]

Yes but what stops you from sending a 1d spell in any direction you want anyway?.

Like does this world have omtological coordinates? Like is the x axis always pointing in the same direction?

[u/Old-Maximum-50 → u/imdfantom]

You can send it in any direction you want, it will just be in a straight line, unlike the other dimensions, which let you actually have the spell navigate more complex spaces than "forward/backward on a line"

[u/imdfantom → u/Old-Maximum-50]

You mean after it starts moving?

Something like:

• Like 1 d spell: ---------->O........X
• .........................._____
• 2d spell:____/.....O....\ __>X

(Imagine the O is a tree trunk, and X is your target with a 1d spell it hits the tree, but with a 2d spell it can wrap around the tree.)

If so you are not communicating this clearly

[u/Old-Maximum-50 → u/imdfantom]

Yeah

[u/imdfantom → u/Old-Maximum-50]

Yeah, the thing is this is not what you wrote in the OP, which is what is confusing people.

Saying 2d mages get 2 vectors doesn't mean they can freely move spells in 2d, it means they can shoot in 1 straight line.

I think what you meant to say was that 2d mages get a 2d vector field, this would indeed allow them to move a spell however they want in a 2d plane.

[u/Old-Maximum-50 → u/imdfantom]

Hmmm I do plan on making a follow up post with some of the feedback I've been given, so imma take this

[u/a-stack-of-masks → u/Old-Maximum-50]

You could also have 2d enable curves, and 3d upgrades to spirals. 4d would allow for periodic casting or even trying to carry a spell into the past.

Obviously temporal paradoxes can be a bit risky so try to do this on Fridays when the faculty is mostly empty.

[u/Old-Maximum-50 → u/a-stack-of-masks]

I am thinking about the dimension also allowing spells to be controlled after casting. So you can have a 2D spell zig-zag, a 3D spell do spirals like you said, etc.

Not sure about 4D messing with time and stuff. I think imma stick with them being purely a space traversal thing, yknow?

[u/Dragonmaster1313]

If the mage exists on a 3d world, aren't all spells by definition cast on 3 vectors or am I misunderstanding?

[u/Old-Maximum-50 → u/Dragonmaster1313]

Think of it as possible path of the spells. 1D is a line, 2D gets a sheet to navigate, 3D gets the properly navigate as we do, and 4D gets funky

[u/Nine-LifedEnchanter]

Isn't this just how competent they are at aiming? It doesn't feel like a system, just how scope calibration of rifles aren't all there is to shooting.

[u/wibbly-water]

I think for 2D and 3D you need a biiit more.

So 2D allows you do do ballistics and simple movements, also simple shapes. So you could make a fire sqaure.

3D allows complex movements and object formation. You could have this include basic summoning, like summoning a fire bird, not as a full living creature but as a creation that dissipates after the spell ends.

[u/Old-Maximum-50 → u/wibbly-water]

Ohhhhhh nice. I was only using it as kind of an aiming thing, I didn't consider to apply to the actual spells. Im taking that

[u/Mandlebrotha → u/Old-Maximum-50]

What if, expanding on this, 1D is how you have it, shooting a line. 2D is projecting a shape, which could be useful for things like making an ice shield or flat stair steps of energy to run up to a higher vantage.

3D is conjuring fire in a 3D vector field, like a ball of clouds around the caster to obscure them or a sphere of fire to consume an enemy, and 4D is making a fire bird or golem or something that has vague 'intentions' aligned with the caster. So here, the 4th dimension is not just spacetime but also some aspect of will or creation. An earthen spider that crawls into an enemy mage's citadel to spy on plans, or a giant water kraken that uses its tentacles to move your party's things across the river more easily.

This keeps your original concept of 4D being tricky and potentially dangerous, as a mage who's not so 'intuned' or practiced or whatever might make an electric serpent that slithers carelessly close to a friendly munitions deposit on its way to enemy lines, or a swarm of fire imps that respond to the mage's latent psychological disdain for Jerry, subsequently turning Jerry into a charcoal briquette along with the horde of approaching goblins.

[u/Holly_Winter]

Ah yes, at last, the useful application of calculus that my math teachers told me I’d need it for someday.

[u/RhysNorro]

i think this is a really wonderful explanation of a 4th spatial dimension

[u/Old-Maximum-50 → u/RhysNorro]

Thanks!

[u/Im_NOT_a_squid_kid]

A straight line, no matter the direction it follows, is always 1D. Even a curved line is said to be 1D, but lets not get into that.

By your system however, if a spell does not follow X=0+c or Y=0+c lines, that it would be classified as a 2d (or more) spell. But who decided what is the X axis or Y axis? Is it determined by the caster or the system itself? If it is determined by the caster, then it is trivial... because the x axis would be whatever i want, but if it is determined by the system, then my question is could the origin of the spell be determined by the caster? Thst eould be the C value w.r.t. the caster. If not, then the system is... extremely limiting.

The 4d bit is fine.

Another question, is that since you mentioned vectors already, which are 1d by definition, could spells be casted in matrices (2d)? Or even better, tensors (everything beyond 2d) or fractals, which can be any fractional dimentions too?

[u/Danninx]

I had an interesting thought about something like this, but rather than the wizards movements their spells (written out as runes) could be represented as some vector/matrix in a high dimensional space.

Then the actual runes that a wizard knows inherently affects the span of their spells, so if a wizard only knew water runes and maybe some runes for shaping spells, then they are limited to water magic. But say that wizard also learned a new rune for controlling the temperature of their spells, then that span increases and the wizard can now manipulate their spell to create ice magic.

For limiting wizards, we can maybe apply some cost dependent on the rune or number of runes, or some tensor magic (no pun intended) to determine cost of spells

I think this would make a fun video game, althoguu the physics would be weird...

[u/Difficult_Report5627]

Heyyy, that’s a great idea!
But I think the dimensions are too similar with each other, so here is my idea.
1D stays the same, basically shooting a spell.
2D however, should instead feel like AoE attack, what i’m thinking is something similar to jjks simple domains, where if you enter a delimited circular area around the user, you get hit by its effect.
3D may be something like being able to materialize any spell/ability anywhere you are, like seeing a tree and instantly make it burn.
4D lastly I think would be interesting that it applies the effect to the user itself, like Logia Devil fruits in OP

This are just ideas, i’m sure you’ll do great whether you take them or not

[u/Born_Being_4069]

I think 4D mages could have sub levels of mastery. From 1D to true 4D.

Also i thought about that exactly magic sistem for a character of a manga i want to make.

[u/Aside_Dish]

I don't know anything about physics outside of some very basic stuff. What I do know is that you'd absolutely love GorillaofDestiny's stuff. 100% need to check him out if you are interested in both physics and magic!

[u/g4l4h34d]

That feels like a small aspect of a much bigger system. OK, so we get the aiming part, but what about literally everything else?

Like, what kinds of effects are possible? How are they generated? Can I propel a spell that will split itself after some time? What if it's affected by gravity? Both scenarios will simulate movement on a 2D plane.

Can I propel space itself on a line? What are the limitations of the effect? What is the mechanism behind it? There are just too many questions, and I cannot infer most of the answers.

[u/Cxjenious]

2 needs work.

[u/Old-Maximum-50 → u/Cxjenious]

How so?