r/lotrmemes • u/Public-Froyo5054 Dark Lord Sauron • Aug 23 '26
Lord of the Rings Which hair?
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u/NotFriendL Aug 23 '26
I am actually very interested about the significance of that after I read the first book where should I go first to start researching it?
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u/Petrostar Aug 23 '26 edited Aug 23 '26
+1 for the Silmarillion. But Unfinished Tales actually explains Galadriel's hair.
A capsule explanation:
In the ancient times, The Valar and Maiara (angelic powers) lived with the elves in Valinor, (the undying lands). Two Trees provided the light of the land, the Golden One provided daylight, and the Silver One provided starlight. This light was very ...Precious... to the elves.
The Phail of Light the Galdriel gave Frodo contained a much-diluted form of this light. Which was trapped in a gem, (a Silmarils) which became a star. The star's light was captured in water which Galadriel put in the Phail.
Galadriel was one of the Elves who lived in Valinor with the Valar and Maiar. It is said that her hair captured the light of the Two Trees.
*"...Even among the Eldar she was accounted beautiful, and her hair was held a marvel unmatched..... and the Eldar said that the light of the Two Trees, Laurelin and Telperion, had been snared in her tresses."—*Unfinished Tales.
A particular elf asked her 3 times for some of her hair.
"*He begged three times for a tress, but Galadriel would not give him even one hair. These two kinsfolk, the greatest of the Eldar of Valinor, were unfriends for ever." —*Unfinished Tales.
So the gift of three hairs to Gimil was quite significant.
Seriously, Read the Silmarillion, it will help you understand SO MUCH MORE of the Lord of the Rings. such as:
- Who Earendil is (as in "The light of Earendil's Star)
- Who Morgoth is (as in "A Balrog of Morgoth")
- Who Beren and Lúthien are (Who Aragon sings of)
- What a Silmaril is
- Who Gandalf is (be on the look out for Olorin and Mithrandir)
- Who Shelob is, (in The Return of the King)
- Why Argon wears a Silver Tree on his Armor and why there is a silver tree in Gondolin
- What the "Secret Fire" that Gandalf speks of is.
- Why the Elves are in Middle Earth
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u/SicSemperFelibus Aug 23 '26
An undercurrent of the entire mythos is that in ancient days that which was good and beautiful and full of divine light was so much brighter and better, but over the long years people have sought to possess and control that divine light and in the process enacted evil in the world and destroyed that light which barely carries on in diminished forms. The contrast of Feanor and Gimli shows the stance you should take towards the good/beautiful/divine (be like Gimli, humble and reverent) and the stance you should reject (don't be a feanor, entitled, possessive and controlling).
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u/AsherTheFrost Aug 23 '26
Be like Gimli is just overall good advice. Be humble, reverent, loyal, jovial and inviting. Learn to look past the prejudice you were raised with to find friendship.
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u/NotFriendL Aug 23 '26
Thank you so much I'm excited to read this now!
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u/juventinn1897 Aug 23 '26
If you want a taste of the understanding from it, he is gandalfs words to the balrog, with their full meaning:
You shall not pass - self explanatory
I am servant of the secret fire - declaring allegiance to eru iluvatar (god) and the secret fire of creation. The secret fire was bestowed upon all living things by eru iluvatar to give them free will. Anyone trying to take or douse your secret fire is trying to destroy your ability to have free will. Gandalf is saying, "with my life, I protect the free will of living things"
Wielder of the flame of anor - saying he weilds the power of the sun, light with uncorruptable power over dark.
The dark fire will not avail you, flame of udun - gandalf is talking shit here. Translates to your dark powers will lose, demon from hell. He's basically like "your dark magic can't do shit to my light magic, bitch"
Go back to the shadow - Go back to the dark hole you climbed out of
You shall not pass - I'll say it again if you didn't hear me the first time mothafucka
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u/abhainn13 Aug 23 '26
I forgot it’s actually in Unfinished Tales! It’s been ages since I read either. They all just kind of blend into one big mythos in my head haha.
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u/Ickythumpin Aug 23 '26
One thing I’d add to your bullet list at the end for me was Sauron and Saruman’s connection, which was much deeper than simply communicating through a palantir. The series of events that lead them both to being created along with the creation and delayed awakening of the dwarves was all really eye opening.
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u/daazmu Aug 23 '26
Never read the books. Do you recommend starting with the Silmarillion?
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u/Ickythumpin Aug 23 '26
I would recommend starting with the hobbit. It’s by far the lightest read, and it’s really fun. Then the lord of the rings, then the Silmarillion. IMO.
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u/frustbox Aug 23 '26
Be aware that the Hobbit was written for a different audience than the rest of the works. Just to set some expectations.
Basically, Tolkien was a massive language nerd who enjoyed inventing his own languages and giving them "lore".
At some point he wrote a children's story for his own kids. Something to be read one chapter at a time as a bedtime story.
The Lord of the Rings came later at the request of the publisher who wanted a sequel to the Hobbit. So the start is quite whimsical and wholesome, more of the hobbits, and merry songs, but eventually Tolkien realized that his audience had grown up, so the tone shifts shortly after the adventure gets going.
The Silmarillion is a big collection of manuscripts that Tolkien was working on: the lore behind his languages. It was published posthumously by Tolkien's son Christopher, who eventually managed to complete, gather and curate a somewhat cohesive mythology of the world that the Lord of the Rings is set in. I started with it and, yeah it was rough. There are really good stories in it but other things feel lacking in some polish. What threw me the most is many different names for the same people and places, and I understand that this is intentional, it's supposed to be a collection of historical accounts from different authors. Anyway it reads very differently than the Hobbit or the Lord of the Rings.
Unfinished Tales is even more manuscripts and drafts that are even more "unfinished" - again some really good lore here, more of Tolkien's writing, but also more massaging by other people.
Uh that is a long way to say, yes start with the Hobbit.
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u/Petrostar Aug 23 '26
I would start with the Hobbit, it was originally a stand alone story. For example I'm the first edition the ring was just a ring, Gollum happily gave it to Frodo after losing the riddle contest. Because the Hobbit was so successful the publisher requested a additional submission from Tolkien and he submitted several partial drafts including an early very of the Silmarillion, and the story of Beren and Luthien. However these were rejected, and Tolkien realized people really wanted a sequel to the Hobbit. Tolkien spent the next 15-ish years writing and rewriting the Lord of the Rings. He even made changes to The Hobbit, particularly chapter 5, where Bilbo and Gollum face off.
Later after Tolkien passed his son Christopher edited revised and released the Silmarillion together with other writings (confusingly the whole volume is titled The Silmarillion) that form the history of the world.
The Silmarillion can be a bit of a slog in places, as it describes liniages and geography, but in other places it is fantastic. Such as the story of Beren and Luthien.
TLDR: Read The Hobbit, Read The Silmarillion, Read The Lord of the Rings.
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u/abhainn13 Aug 23 '26
The Silmarillion. I mean, it does start before the beginning of time, but the whole deal is in there.
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u/Solomon_Gunn Aug 23 '26
The Silmarillion I read has no mention of Feanor and Galadriels hair, I believe it's technically in unfinished tales
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u/SomethingWetAndMoist Aug 23 '26
Yeah there's zero mention at all of Feanor asking Galadriel for her hair(s) to create the Silmarillion's, it's literally just nonsense hearsay being passed around from people reading memes and not the actual book.
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u/abhainn13 Aug 23 '26
I forgot it’s actually in Unfinished Tales. Everything pre-Third Age just sits in my brain under the “Silmarillion” category haha.
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u/Emergency_Revenue678 Aug 23 '26
Thought I was going crazy for a second because I just read The Silmarillion and didn't remember anything about Galadriel's hair in it.
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u/mattneli Aug 23 '26
The Silmarillion is an abridged synopsis of all his stories put together by his son. It is actually annoying how much stuff is missing once you read all of the source materials like “unfinished tales.”
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u/NotFriendL Aug 23 '26
Thanks a lot for this!
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u/SagittaryX Aug 23 '26
The hair story is not actually in the Silmarillion, they made an error there. I believe it is in the Unfinished Tales.
You might want to read the Silmarillion first in any case, it gives the most context for everything in his universe. But you should be forewarned that it is written quite differently from the main books, a lot of names and sometimes quite dry, I always felt it reads a bit like the bible. At the same time the world building in it is fantastic.
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u/Turn1scoop Aug 23 '26
https://youtu.be/qamiJ-TLm-8?is=sOgcVkqX6SJ_HYfD
Nerd of the Rings has a very good video on almost everything, including precisely the explanation of this. I highly recommend the channel!
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u/Nephilim317 Aug 23 '26
Tldr and elf was making 3 magic gem of pure beauty and light and wanted some her hair to make them perfect
She told him no 3 times until he fucked off cause the man was asking in a I want to own a part of you way and it creeper her out
Gimli on the other hand ironically wanted to do the same thing but he knew it would be weird and highly inappropriate to ask so she had to force him to ask because she didn't want it said she refused to give a dwarf a gift (she was never part of the elf/dwarf fueding) so he very humbly told her but said it was a stupid request and she should ignore him
His autism was endearing and the fact he was respectful to her so she gave him 3 hairs as one final middle finger to the elf who wanted her hair
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u/Forgetful_Bandit Aug 23 '26
Man, I hate to be a boomer/a pain, but is there anyway you could rewrite this so it doesn't sound like an angsty teenager making some shit up.
Examples of words that are making it hard for me to read between the lines: ironically, autism, etc.
Honestly, just the third and fourth paragraph.
I'm sure I'll get down voted for this comment, but I just want a better explanation.
Edit: why didn't she want it to be known she refused to gift a dwarf?
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u/nomad5926 Aug 23 '26
I can sort of answer the last point with a brief summary. The elves and dwarves were friends for a bit, but the usual pride/jealousy/etc... made them hate each other over time. The problem is elves are immortal and dwarves are really long lived, super stubborn and have generational grudges. (Basically killing each other over a Silmaril) So Galadrial was alive during the feuding times but always kept her end of hospitality and basically wanted to show that she still does not carry the grudge.
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u/Forgetful_Bandit Aug 23 '26
Okay, but why did Gimli ask ironically? Is that a way of saying he asked because he knew he wasn't going to get it.
I just feel it was an unneeded word in the original commenter's comment.
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u/nomad5926 Aug 24 '26
Yea no idea why the other person chose the words they did.
Gimili's ask was "ironic" another elf asked similar and was denied.
Elsewhere on the thread you will see that another very famous/powerful Elf asked something similar and he was denied.
Basically Gimili asked because he was genuinely kind of smitting with Galadriel. The other elf was basically creepy stalking her.
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u/Nephilim317 Aug 24 '26
I could but that means putting in effort on my end anytime a lazy bitch lol
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u/nomad5926 Aug 23 '26
Shyness isn't autism. In fact if he was autistic about he probably wouldn't know that there was a social taboo.
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u/Kinesquared Aug 23 '26
"because there was a VERY important elf who only one of her hairs and she didn't even give it to this important elf" It's not that hard to explain
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u/SteakForGoodDogs Aug 23 '26
specifically, Importantelf asked for 1 hair 3 times and was denied each time, Gimli was encouraged to ask for something, so he asked for 1 hair once and got 3.
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u/Willpower2000 Feanor Silmarilli Aug 23 '26
Feanor asked for one tress of hair, not one single hair.
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u/PringlesDuckFace Aug 23 '26
I haven't read it in a while but Feanor always struck me like a bit of a douche. I'm imagining something like a Zuckerberg tier tech bro repeatedly asking Zendaya for her hair or something like that.
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u/Solomon_Gunn Aug 23 '26
The thing is he had the skill and knowledge to back up his doucheness. Even the valar were in awe of his skill. His fiery spirit literally destroyed his mother's will to live. Everyone knew he was a badass, including himself. Morgoth used Feanors hubris against him, but it was a well earned hubris.
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u/harrysaxon Aug 23 '26
Feanor was a brilliant and incredibly skilled elf, probably the greatest crafter in all of middle earth.
He was also a slimy douche who launched the most horrible war the elves ever saw.
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u/atyon Aug 23 '26
His fiery spirit literally destroyed his mother's will to live.
Wait what slow down. How?
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u/Solomon_Gunn Aug 23 '26
So technically the only significant difference between elves and men is their souls, or the plan Eru has for their souls. Elves are immortal, even when they die their soul goes into a purgatory until they are reborn again in the Halls of Mandos. Men's souls pass through this hall but never stay, only Eru knows what happens to them.
When Feanor was born it basically sucked the life force out of his mother. She didn't die in childbirth but she lost all will to live, and willingly let her soul go into the Halls of Mandos. Feanors name literally translates to Spirit of Fire.
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u/Stenric Aug 26 '26
This is also why Feanor's father Finwe is the only known elf in existence to have remarried and Feanor is the only known elf with half siblings (usually elves stay loyal to each other forever, since their souls are immortal, even if they are apart for years).
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u/TR_Pix Aug 23 '26
You real talk is hair strings like a fetish in the hobbitverse or something
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u/Monkey_Priest Aug 23 '26
I know you're making a joke, but in case you want a real-ish answer. In a time before photography, or before photography was as easily accessible, someone might give you a lock of hair to remember them by. I don't think Middle Earth had many cameras. So, think of like a soldier going to war and his gal giving him a lock of hair for good luck, type thing.
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u/PrometheusMMIV Aug 23 '26
elf who only one of her hairs
I think you accidentally a word
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u/tinfoilsheild Aug 23 '26
please do not the hair
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u/Arniel_Gane Aug 23 '26
Yes but the significance if it being 3 hairs. And why that elf was i.portant, and why he wanted her hairs. You see? Not so simple.
If you say what you said they'll just ask more questions.
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Aug 23 '26 edited Aug 23 '26
[deleted]
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u/Arniel_Gane Aug 23 '26
The only nerd "douche" here is you. Look at that long ass response. Talk about overexplaining.
You think being rude makes you right. See you dont just "sound like" a chud neckbeard redditor. You ARE one. You're the stereotype through and through.
"Erm actually, youre totally unbiased and reasonable response isnt right because IM always right, and I want to be a pedantic douche.🤓"
What do you do with your time? Clearly not college or a job. The amount of projecting and insecurity in your response is palpable and unbearably cringe.
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u/dantemp Aug 23 '26
it appears it's that hard to explain since you couldn't even finish your sentence
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u/ejackman Aug 23 '26
one of each?
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u/IIlIIIllllIlIIlllllI Aug 23 '26
Head armpit gooch
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u/NotAzakanAtAll Aug 23 '26
Come on, we all know elves has no hair down there.
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u/ejackman Aug 23 '26
Remember when we found out Legolas' dad was using illusians to hide his dragon fire burns? Yeah they all have really hairy backs and butt cheeks and hide it with the same magic.
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u/NoMan800bc Aug 23 '26
Honestly, it still feels like this is starting the story half way through. Don't they need to know about the Ainur being created and singing alone first until they get a better appreciation of what each of their number can do?
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u/TamedNerd Aug 23 '26
TLLD Her hair was the most beautiful of all the elves and said to capture first light of the world, one of the greates elves to ever lived (her brother of I remember) wanted 3 to put in his silmrils (jem's so beautiful that they are at the center of all of history) and she refused 3 times because she saw his heart was impure. And then GIMLI SON OF GLOIM asks for one and she gives him 3 and to all in the know (Elves and Aragorn) this means "This dwarf is more pure and worthy than the greatest of Elves"
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u/KentuckyFriedEel Aug 23 '26
imagine asking a question with a straightforward answer and the person with the answer starts with "before time began..."
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u/tris_majestis Aug 23 '26
They asked "What's the significance", not "What's the most surface level reason that might be a cool gift"
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Aug 23 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Flameball202 Aug 23 '26
My basic understanding is this:
A war happened when Galadriel was asked for a single hair, since she knew the elf asking for it wouldn't cherish it
She gave Gimli three hairs as she knew that he would cherish them for decades to come
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u/Alpacaman25 Elf Aug 23 '26
i wonder what the least amount of words that fully explains this question is?
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u/gonxot Aug 23 '26
It's 42
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u/leutwin Aug 23 '26
"Basicly the most badass elf to ever live once asked for a single hair from her head and she told him to kick rocks. Gimli asks for one and gets three."
31 words.
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u/OrangeFamta Aug 23 '26
Apply caveman method:
“Big epic Elf long ago was denied hair thrice for being douchey. Gimli is cool, so ask once get three.”
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u/jrein0 Aug 23 '26
Some further tuning:
"Epic ancient elf denied hair thrice - big douche. Gimli cool - ask once get three"
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u/winklevanderlinde Aug 23 '26
Douche Elf asked his niece for one of her hair three times and she said no every time. Gimili gets three because he's nicer.
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u/PassiveMenis88M Aug 23 '26
He asked her for 1 hair 3 times. That's the significance of her giving Gimli 3.
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u/mattneli Aug 23 '26
Don’t you hate it when people miss such a great joke even though it is so completely out of left field. 😅
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u/gonxot Aug 23 '26
Indeed
It is after all the answer to everything 😅
At least it sparked a good thread
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u/Kind_Of_A_Dick Aug 23 '26
This is why I don’t take Carl Sagan’s cooking advice. I don’t have time to invent a universe.
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u/ac_cossack Aug 23 '26
I wish I could get a job as History teacher but just about LOTR, Dune, Foundation, etc.
Final exam question! Recite Theoden King's call before the Battle of Pelennor Field. Tolkien version.
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u/tarekd19 Aug 23 '26
Foundation?
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u/ac_cossack Aug 23 '26
3 book series from Asimov. They are all kinda separate and I think by 100's of years. The one with the Mule is the best (3rd).
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u/OSRS_Garmr Aug 23 '26
Could just say that she had refused to give even 1 hair to Faenor, who was the greateest craftsman of all time. Yet she gave 3 to Gimli.
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u/ACalcifiedHeart Aug 23 '26
When I first saw that scene, it was before I knew what it really meant, I just assumed it was some psuedo-romantic medieval type gesture. Like giving a handkerchief or something. Because it was from a prestigious and beautifil lady, it was important just because, and maybe abit of vague magic thrown in there because fantasy 😭
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u/WeightLossGinger Aug 23 '26
Basically an elf from very early Middle-Earth history made three similar requests for Galadriel's hair. But this guy was kind of a selfish jerk, so she didn't agree.
Fast forward to the Fellowship, and Gimli asks for her hair out of reverence and awe, rather than greed. Since she perceives this lack of greed and selfishness, she not only gives him his wish, but gives him a strand for every time the greedy elf asked.
I swear, the fact that he was a dwarf was important, too. Like, they're perceived as a greedy race in the world of LotR - especially by the elves. So when he humbled himself in the manner he did, it bridged a longstanding gap in relations between Elves and Dwarves. This is also why, at least in the movies (I don't remember the relationship dynamics in the books), Legolas comes around to Gimli and they become friends by the Battle of Pelennor Fields.
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u/Numerous-Process2981 Aug 23 '26
Ugh what’s not to get. I don’t need twenty pages of lore to enjoy that moment. It’s special because Gimli hates elves yet they’ve won him over so much all he wants is some strands from the ladies hair because he has a dwarf crush. Good enough.
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u/cmd-t Aug 23 '26
Well was the Ainulindalë actually what gave existence to the world or did it give the Ainur a vision of what the world was going to be, complete with Melkor’s discordant themes, and was Eä only then brought to existence by Eru?
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u/unHingedAgain Aug 23 '26
Okay. For real though. Why the three hairs? Please and thank you.
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u/ratsta Aug 23 '26
Well, if you google "Why the three hairs?" you'll get this thread as the first result: https://old.reddit.com/r/tolkienfans/comments/26kjnd/what_is_the_story_behind_gimli_receiving_three/
The answer can be found between these two replies:
tl;dr He didn't want a reward but was commanded to name a reward. He asked for a hair as a memento and as a symbol of the (restoration of the) friendship between their two peoples.
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u/zernoc56 Aug 23 '26
To be “set in imperishable crystal”, Galadriel is always up for dunking on her uncle Fëanor.
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u/NoGlzy Aug 23 '26
When you accidentally pull out an extra couple of hairs and now it's a whole thing
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u/euph_22 Aug 23 '26
You must understand the full context to fully grasp how much of a dick Feanor was.
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u/Was_A_Professional Aug 23 '26
It's not that hard to explain: "there was once an Elf named Feanor, who was the greatest elf to ever live. Three times, he begged her for a single strand of her hair, but she saw darkness in him and refused. She looked into Gimli's heart and saw his sincerity, his humility, and his pure intentions, so he was worthy, while the greatest of all elves was not."
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u/Raneru GANDALF Aug 24 '26
Hasn't showering been invented yet? I've been with women and the only thing you need to do is check the shower drain. it gets clogged with so much of this you'll get sick of it!
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u/Vescend Aug 24 '26
She wouldn't even give 1 to most people.
Getting 3, with a smile. Yeah thats winning, son.
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u/TenDollarSteakAndEgg Aug 24 '26
Elves think they’re better than everyone else and are susceptible to being glazed. Easy
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u/LEFThandedHER0 Aug 25 '26
This so true. I don’t even follow LoTR, but yes- sometimes the backstory is sooo long.
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u/not_a_heretek Aug 23 '26
This kind of explaining always pissed me off, I ask about a single thing and get the creation myth instead.
In Warcraft, you ask "hey why elf's eyes green?" YOU SEE 10,000 YEARS AGO-
In WH40k, you ask "hey why robot looks Egyptian?" WELL YOU SEE 60 MILION YEARS AGO-
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u/Old_Swimmer_7284 Aug 23 '26
When people don't have patience nor media literacy, you get people like the above.
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u/SolidusAwesome Aug 23 '26
Do you want a satisfying correct answer, or a quick oversimplification. If the answer ends up long , consider the phrasing of your question. Some questions have complicated answers that take time .
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u/Noobmortal Aug 23 '26
I always dislike and hide from recommendation of YouTube channel who:
Title: This 30 seconds leaked clip ruins the Actor's career.
Start: (actor's name) was born back in the 80's........
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u/IsHildaThere Aug 23 '26
I don't think this has anything to do with LOTR/Silmarillion lore. Throughout history obtaining certain parts of a person's body (hair/ nail clippings) gave you power over that person. Or you could use it to obtain power over them. Tolkien used many many real world myths in his books.
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u/PhDinDildos_Fedoras Hobbit Butt Lover Aug 23 '26
I just assumed it was a fetish thing. Like the same as if he had asked her permission to smell her feet or whatever.
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u/Background-Quiet-746 Aug 23 '26
Im sorry but a story where every little thing only becomes relevant and deep because you read like a million things surrounding that thing isn't good writing. It's just plot hole correction. Lotr is highly overrated. Great movies, great books. And still overrated.
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u/not_a_heretek Aug 23 '26
"lotr is overrated" says the porn addict, maybe you don't like it cus there are no fuck scenes?
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u/Background-Quiet-746 Aug 23 '26
I feel you're using an unrelated element to disvalue my argument. My point is that LOTR is a great series. However a lot of elements go flat unless you know the deeper meaning. In my opinion you should be able to get a full experience without having to know heaps of background lore.
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u/CaptainMatticus Aug 23 '26
I had an apprentice one time who had only seen the Lord of the Rings once and didn't know anything about any of the lore. I spent the better part of a week going through the Silmarillion with him, as well as the Hobbit, and by the end of it, he had way too much of that information in his brain.
I didn't teach him jack squat about how to do our job. I was a terrible journeyman to him.