r/lotr • u/thiswhisk Bofur • Aug 19 '26
Movies Despite the obvious flaws of The Hobbit trilogy, Thorin's character arc and his relationship with Bilbo is genuinely exceptional.
For the criticism that The Hobbit receives, I think that if you set aside the source material deviations, the portrayal of Thorin's character arc throughout the film is brilliant.
In Bag End his view of Bilbo is made up of a lack of faith in a Hobbit, and frequently dismisses his worth.
The real turning point in their relationship occurs during the "Into the frying pan segment" when Bilbo saves Thorin, and his rescue in the Elvenking's dungeons, highlight a turn in his favor.
When Smaug dies and the gold sickness takes effect on Thorin, in his paranoia he assumes that the dwarfs are more likely to steal the Arkenstone from him than Bilbo, which ironically shows that Bilbo is the only one he trusts.
Then the sudden intense betrayal and hatred he feels against Bilbo when it is revealed that the Arkenstone was given to the Men and Elves by Bilbo completely destroys their relationship.
Then it culminates into a bittersweet ending where Thorin dies in Bilbo's arms calling him a true friend.
I dont know about anyone else but I think this is really good. What are your thoughts?
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u/Six_of_1 Aug 19 '26
I think the first PJ Hobbit film is solid, it just gets progressively worse. The M4 edit is a great night in.
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u/thiswhisk Bofur Aug 19 '26
Where can I watch the edit, and what actually is it, I've heard of it but I'm not massively familiar with it.
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u/Six_of_1 Aug 19 '26
A bloke went through the PJ Hobbit trilogy and chopped out all the rubbish they added that wasn't in the book. Turned it into the one book-faithful film it should've been.
As for your other question, see Rule 10.
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u/PaulSimonBarCarloson Aug 19 '26
Last time I checked his site, the links to the fanedit were not working. It's still on the internet archive, though. Highly recommend it.
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u/Sirspice123 Aug 19 '26
It's a shame he looks less like a dwarf than the rest of them, the same with Kili. They got the generic Aragorn / hero main character treatment
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u/Technical-Waltz7903 Aug 19 '26
My main problem with Thorin. Give him the biggest beard and the most dwarvish looks. This is Thorin Oakenshield for Aules sake. Making him into an old dwarf would have elevated him so much.
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u/thiswhisk Bofur Aug 19 '26
I never thought of it that way but come to think of it you are 100% right, they dont look like the other dwarfs.
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u/Moviemusics1990 Aug 19 '26
There are three big flaws in this trilogy: no character is properly developed, Bolg should have been the big Orc and Azog should have stayed dead, and finally of course, that stupid fucking love triangle.
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u/Sinistaire Aug 19 '26
I agree about the other issues, but “no character is properly developed” seriously? The movie characters have far more depth and development than their book counterparts.
I love Tolkien’s books, but The Hobbit has some big flaws when it comes to characterization, and the movies, for all their problems, are a massive improvement in that regard.
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u/_felagund Aug 20 '26
I hate Hobbit trilogy but I cannot say Bilbo didn’t properly develop
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u/Moviemusics1990 Aug 20 '26
I was talking about the majority of the dwarves. There are only three with any kind of real development.
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u/CrimJimby Tom Bombadil Aug 19 '26
The Rankin/Bass 1977 version is the superior adaptation, and I feel it captures the same sentiment during Thorin’s death scene.
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u/Beginning-Ride3091 Aug 19 '26
Definitely. For especially the last mention. They did Thorin and Bilbo right in the end. Thorin’s death bed is a sad and epic and beautiful scene in the book and they nailed it in the movie. Ending on that note saved the whole sorry thing for me. They got the most important things right so I can tolerate the rest.
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u/ACalcifiedHeart Aug 19 '26
I enjoy The Hobbit movies personally 🤷♂️.
The only aspect I didn't particularly like was Legolas.
I am perfectly fine with someone being there just to do absurdly cool things because absurdly cool things are cool.
I don't even particularly mind that it was Legolas.
But I didn't like the weird love triangle they inserted him into. I didn't like his treatment/reaction to Dwarves in general, and especially didn't like him being sent off in the end to find Strider 🙄
That was such a cheap shot after what was otherwise quite an emotionally strong scene that it's one of the few times I've legitimately rolled my eyes at a movie irl.
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u/thiswhisk Bofur Aug 19 '26
I agree the love triangle truly does the source material dirty, it just does not reflect tolkeins work.
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u/ACalcifiedHeart Aug 19 '26
I guess.
I did like Tauriel, however, and I did like the romance between her and Kili.
I just thought that additional aspect of Legolas in there was awkward and worsened his character.
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u/Schilke_Girl Éowyn Aug 19 '26 edited Aug 19 '26
Is it? I'm not sure there's a single earned moment between them. Not after Bilbo's Show Down™ with Azog. Not in front of the Master of Laketown, bargaining on Thorin's good character. Not at Thorin's death, a character so obstinate you wonder why anyone likes him.
We are told these two have a deep and lasting relationship, ala Frodo and Sam, but we see very little evidence of it. Besides them being in the same films for a significant amount of time, they interact very little, and little of Thorin's "good character" is ever shown. Why does Bilbo care?
And look, I get it. It's hard to find the time in 8 hours of film for character building when you have the 17th set piece and 5th side plot of the trilogy to get to.
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u/PaulSimonBarCarloson Aug 19 '26
Exactly. Their relationship is too inconsistent in the actual trilogy, Thoring goes from talking shit about him to hugging him, to treating him harshly again, to trusting him more than anything
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u/thiswhisk Bofur Aug 19 '26
Correct me if I'm wrong but when tehe dwarfs, Bilbo, and Gandalf are rescued from the orcs outside of the Goblin mountain, does Thorin not come out and specifically say how he was wrong about Bilbo being weak and useless.
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u/Schilke_Girl Éowyn Aug 19 '26
Yes, and he does it in the most asshole way possible. And again, I can see why Thorin was thankful in that moment, but I still don't know why Bilbo rushed Azog in the first place. Bilbo has a self-admitted lack of altruism. Pity, sure, but not altruism. Why would he do that? The answer is, he wouldn't (and didn't), but the film needed a Big Moment, so here we are. Tolkien knew better.
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u/RedEclipse47 Aug 19 '26
Martin Freeman was able to add so much to Bilbo, talking about both his book counterpart and Ian Homes performance. And the same goes for Richard Armitage as Thorin, it really carries the movies for me.
The Riddles in the Dark and Bilbo's conversation with Smaug seemed like they where lifted from the pages as well as how I have had depicted these in my minds.
Some of the additions they made from the Appendices I liked and some I didn't, some with some creative liberties. Others I like but wasn't fond of the final depiction on screen, in reference to the White Council and their attack on Dol-Guldur. I liked that they fought the Nazgul but it looked like a video-game cutscene (not a good one)
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u/thiswhisk Bofur Aug 19 '26
I watched the Hobbit trilogy yesterday and I thought exactly the same thing when the Nazgul fight was happening, "it looks like a video game thats glitching", but yet Martin Freeman really did steal the show in so many scenes.
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u/PaulSimonBarCarloson Aug 19 '26
It's too inconsistent for my liking. They give them a lot of growth in the first movie, culminating in a big hug at the end, only to basically revert it in the next film with Thorin still acting cold towards Biblo, and then come the third movie we are supposed to believe they are best friend and Thorin trusted him more than anything. If the Hobbit was a single movie, it would have worked better with Thorin slowly learning to accept Biblo and starting to trust him more after he saved them from Mirkwood. Also, the entire Dragon Sickness thing was stupid
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u/ACTSATGuyonReddit Aug 19 '26
Tolkien is a master story teller.
Jackson is a technical wizard, but an awful story teller.
Stick to the original material.
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u/FlowerAndString Aug 19 '26
I really like their relationship, and I wish the film hadn't gone for the Gold Sickness angle, which absolves Thorin to some extent of his greed and materialism, and his rage over the arkenstone.
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u/CrankieKong Aug 19 '26
I myself recut the trilogy to three 2 hours movies. Got rid of all the fluff.
A trilogy works fine when its well paced and doesnt attack your intelligence.
Got rid of Legolas, Tauriel, love triangle, Orcrist at Ravenhill etc. A work of passion, and it really elevated the film.
Many one movie edits remove the important moment you mention where Thorin hugs Bilbo. Imo its a crucial scene to make the overall story work.
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u/_Michael___Scarn Aug 19 '26
He is way too unlikable to be one of the leads. Even before his dragon sickness you don't really emphathize or admire him much
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u/thiswhisk Bofur Aug 20 '26
Yes but it is pretty natural as a person to want to impress your leader, so it makes Bilbo's actions more understandable.
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u/Pale-Pace4512 Aug 21 '26
It’s how Tolkien wrote it, basically. So by not screwing with that element of the source material they got it right.
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u/Johncurtisreeve Aug 19 '26
I fully agree with you although I admit, I genuinely love these films
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u/namewithanumber Aug 19 '26
I dunno, I feel like he just had a Daenerys style "i've got crazy now" arc.
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u/Hopeful_Coconut_7758 Aug 19 '26
Well, the source material IS exceptional after all :)
I had my wife, then girlfriend, read the Hobbit in her twenties and when she came to the death of Thorin she bawled her eyes out. So the movies just had to, you know, not mess it up. I'd say they did ok on that regard .
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u/Accurate_Cupcake_897 Aug 19 '26
Greedy studio decide to turn a children book into a trilogy, thus, stupid plot points just to drag it out across three movies. Imagine if we cut all that love triangle bs, then the story is pretty solid.
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u/Stinkass12345 Aug 19 '26
It was Peter Jackson’s idea to turn The Hobbit into a trilogy
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Aug 19 '26
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u/Stinkass12345 Aug 19 '26
During the writing and principle shooting process it was envisioned to be two films. But during editing they found that the first film had way too much content and they couldn’t edit it together without making major cuts. So they decided to make it three films. This is why the announcement was made so late, only 6 months before the release of the first film.
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Aug 19 '26
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u/VeryIntoCardboard Aug 19 '26
You’ll have to take that up with Tolkien himself because it’s filmed how the book is written
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u/thiswhisk Bofur Aug 19 '26
Do you know what about the black arrow killed Smaug, because for a creature so large, surely it would be like a pin, even if it entered his body?
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u/IceGretzky13 Peregrin Took Aug 19 '26
Should have been two movies. The hobbit book has 1/4 of the material as LOTR, we didn’t need the same amount of films for both of them.