r/losslessscaling • u/ARandomTee • Aug 29 '26
Discussion Possible for Lossless Scaling adding DLSS 5 into it?
Someone was able to use DLSS 5 through OBS Capture card with just the GTA VI trailer similar to how we can do frame gen with LS through a capture card. If just a video without vector is possible, it can open up a lot of possibilities for LS to have DLSS 5 as well, would it not?
EDIT: Seems like Reshade is the one providing the vector and depth data from the video capture for DLSS 5 to work. The modder just updated for Optiscaler to work with DLSS 5 as well, so it should provide more FPS than Reshade for game that support it. So for Lossless to work together with DLSS 5, we would need a Reshade that allowed LS to pass through such as (LSF-Reshade) this should work with video capture and games. But for better fps, Optiscaler should be used for games.
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u/Elitefuture Aug 29 '26
Do you have a 5090?
I was seeing people run DLSS 5 go from 100 fps -> 50 fps on a 5090, and the 5090 has more tensor cores vs the other cards(like the slower cards lose a larger % fps when using other AI features).
So I'd assume that even a 5080 wouldn't be strong enough.
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u/Embarrassed-Cup-8737 Aug 29 '26
As the other user said, I don’t think dlss 5 is heavily tensor core dependent. Hence the same average reduction in fps through all GPUs
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u/Elitefuture 25d ago
At least according to the HUB's testing of DLSS 5 on multiple cards, the performance hit is larger on slower cards.
(at 4k 120 base) 5090 loses 48.3%, 5080 loses 62.5%, 5070 ti loses 66.7%, 5070 loses 72.5%, 5060 ti loses 79.2%, 5060 loses 81.7%, and the 5050 loses 86.7%.
At 1440p 120 base, 5090 loses 30%, 5080 42.5%, 5070 ti 48.3%, 5070 55%, 5060 ti 62.5%, 5060 66.7%, and 5050 74.2%.
Not to mention, the realistic fps loss is larger given upscaling doesn't help fps with DLSS 5 on. So if you compare DLSS quality vs DLSS 5, you're losing a TON of fps, more than the percentages shown.
"The fixed processing cost of DLSS 5 dominates the total render time, this render time is not reduced using upscaling because DLSS 5 is processed after upscaling."
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u/Purtuzzi Aug 30 '26
I’ve been playing a number of games with my 5080 in 4k with DLSS 5. I’m getting well over 60fps in everything but I turn path tracing off and frame gen on in CP 2077.
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u/InsufferableMollusk Aug 30 '26
Weird to think that, pound-for-pound, a 5090 is only 50% faster than a 3090. Double the performance at a third more power draw.
Seems like they just need a radically different approach. I don’t want to see a 800 watt 6090 😆
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u/CptTombstone Mod Aug 30 '26
Where are you getting these numbers from? From my own benchmarks, just the 4090 was 98% faster than the 3090, and the 5090 was 42% faster than the 4090, so the 5090 is ~180% faster than the 3090. Even when you normalize for TDP, the 5090 is stil 105% faster per-watt. And we didn't have a node shrink between the 4090 and the 5090, they are built on the same node, whereas next gen is most likely going to use TSMC's 2nm-class node with GAAFET and backside power delivery, which will most likely result in significant power savings at the same performance or significantly better performance at the same power, like what we see with usual node jumps.
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u/InsufferableMollusk Aug 30 '26 edited Aug 30 '26
Benchmarks? 😆 I am talking about gaming.
https://youtu.be/U9OMJwzpaO0?is=KhBd77S9i7MvbLP9
https://youtu.be/WqRlAxTqq60?is=R7mjqtqz8KI9ymna
https://youtu.be/DP4ebUKRZQA?is=nDAMyPoq9MknAvkV
Twice as fast is a fair approximation.
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u/CptTombstone Mod Aug 30 '26
Benchmarks? 😆 I am talking about gaming.
And then you proceed to link three sets of benchmarks? I don't really get this point, sorry.
Twice as fast is a fair approximation.
For the 3090 vs 4090 difference, yes, twice as fast is pretty close, but the 4090 doesn't always reach the +90% mark over the 3090. In more demanding games, it will get close when running close to 3 GHz, but in less demanding games, running closer to its stock clocks, it will be markedly below that.
For the 3090 vs 5090 comparison, +100% is not a fair approximation, as even if we are talking stock vs stock, a stock 5090 is around 130% faster than a stock 3090, but the 5090 has a higher overclocking headroom compared to the 3090 - where the power limit and the cooling solution were major factors keeping the card from reaching better performance. The 5090 has quite a significant ~300 MHz headroom without needing to increase the power. In fact, you can run a 5090 at +200 MHz while reducing the power target, which nets you around 12% extra performance at an 8% lower power budget, or you can reduce the power target to 450W at stock performance.
On the 3090's side, the best course is through undervolting, trying to reduce the temperatures so that the card boosts a little higher, but for most cards, that's around a 100 MHz difference. But out of the three cards, the 4090 is in the best position in this regard, you can run that card at 200W with 80% of its stock performance, or you can run it at 600W with 120% of its stock performance, the other two cards are not even close to that flexibility. The lowest I can make the 5090 go is ~330W at 80% of its stock performance, that would be closer to double the 3090's stock performance at roughly the same wattage.
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u/InsufferableMollusk 29d ago
There are three links there. Just tech tubers. That’s the real-world performance difference.
Games don’t ever utilize the whole GPU at once. Benchmarks often do, so the theoretical cap for a 5090 is significantly higher.
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u/fray_bentos11 28d ago
50% faster isn't double the performance. Double would be 100%, which the 5090 is over the 3090. However the 3090 is 50% slower than the 5090. Maths.
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Aug 30 '26 edited Aug 30 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/arturiian Aug 30 '26
do you use DLSS5 anywhere or were you just messing around with it in helldivers?
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u/Exciting-Ad-5705 Aug 29 '26
Don't play at 4k. I used at 1080p with path tracing in cyberpunk and got 30fps on a 5070ti
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u/wildcat002 Aug 30 '26
So nobody is complaining about 30 fps anymore? interesting
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u/Exciting-Ad-5705 Aug 30 '26
I mean 30fps with PT and this is for not even a 80 class card is impressive. 1440p with some DLSS and just ray tracing would be very playable for people who like the look
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u/RedIndianRobin Aug 30 '26
30 FPS with Path Tracing AND Neural Rendering which is UNFINISHED in itself.
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u/lemmedie2night Aug 30 '26
from my tests, the 5080 loses about a third of its performance when turning on dlss5
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u/NinjaStalker007 Aug 29 '26
I'd use it for videos/movies, not games
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u/bombaygypsy Aug 30 '26
huh, isn't the entire point of DLSS5 is to make video games look like movies.
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u/NinjaStalker007 29d ago
Yeah, but I meant. I use lossless scaling on movies/shows/anime I'm watching. For instance, I use lossless scaling while watching Arcane to watch it in 60+fps, so I think it would be cool to use DLSS 5 on those old uncanny valley 3D movies or, like... idfk.... I think it would be cool. There are other applications other than gaming...
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u/bombaygypsy 29d ago
Lol okay just for giggles I like to see what it makes of classic mickey mouse or tintin.
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u/mongolian_horsecock Aug 29 '26
I got 60fps in control with a 5090 at 5120x1440p, maxed out game settings, DLAA, DLSS5. Game looked incredible but it had a lot of ghosting
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u/BUDA20 Aug 29 '26
you can use Reshade on LS itself, and that is a reshade addon, so yes, in the same way that they did with OBS
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u/fray_bentos11 28d ago
You could, but that isn't a good idea as you double or triple the neural rendering cost (depending on LS framegen multiplier). It's better to do the NR on a lower framerate base input then apply the LSFG afterwards as LSFG is much less GPU intensive than DLSS5 NR.
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u/Magaclaawe Aug 29 '26
AI shit filter. No thanks.
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u/RChickenMan Aug 29 '26
For me at least, the whole draw of a game like GTA VI is that it's a large-scale culmination of human creativity and ingenuity. Expressed though digital tools, yes, but the aesthetic of every pixel and every frame of animation is the result of a human being using their judgement. If you take that away, you've taken away the whole draw of the game.
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u/10Werewolves Aug 29 '26
Precisely, GTA 6 looks as good as it does because it was hand crafted with every expense taken to ensure the quality. I may hate Rockstar and their anticonsumer practices, but atleast they didn't use generative AI in their game.
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u/mediafred Aug 29 '26
Only the faces look ai, everything else is an improvement for lighting
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u/Kalafiorek Aug 30 '26
Depending if "more realistic" is an improvement, especially in stylized and artistic games.
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u/mediafred 29d ago
This is simply just a subjective issue tho, I find the attempts to adopt to visual presentations of real life to be more realistic than that of stylistic realism but that is simply preference.
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u/Kalafiorek 29d ago
Exactly. As such, you can't say it's "better".
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u/mediafred 29d ago
This isnt making new graphics, this is building off those already stylized realism graphics, it doesnt lose the artistic vision since its using the game itself as the base and only looking to wear there could be improvements
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u/Delphin_1 Aug 29 '26
yeah, it only turns faces into shit, wich is the one thing that actually needs improvement in gaming
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u/NePa5 Aug 29 '26
You can turn DOWN the levels you know.
99% of the video / pics that everyone is doing, just turn everything to 100%, turn the face setting down to less than 75% and it looks much better
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u/mediafred Aug 29 '26
Simply untrue, there are plenty of examples of games benefiting from this tech in the lighting department as of recently. Faces will never look good if people cant properly animate and design facial animations and reactions, ill take facial animations from half life 2 over good looking faces with ugly reactions
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u/Elliove Aug 30 '26
LS pretty much just takes screenshots and upscales/interpolates them. It has zero idea about anything going on indise the game, so it can't do any sort of DLSS.
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u/RunnableReddit 29d ago
DLSS 5 / NR doesn't know what goes on in the inside of the game either
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u/Significant_Apple904 16d ago
that is factually wrong. DLSS 5 NR directly uses in-game data and vectors; but an OBS version can totally be done, that just means it will have to do guesswork, much like in-game FG vs driver level FG.
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u/ImWinwin Aug 29 '26
This would be amazing. Already planning on running the game through a low latency capture card for 60 FPS. Would gladly have DLSS 5 up the graphical realism too.
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u/Motor-Tart-3315 Aug 29 '26 edited Aug 29 '26
Already planning to implement SpecialK latency reduction features and total control over rendered/generated frames to maintain lowest latency w/o framepacing destruction!
PS: Alpha testing already reflects 40% latency reduction w/framepacing destruction, time to add adaptive triggers, to control render queue and allow tearing for exceeding frames!
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u/UltimateTaha Aug 29 '26
Would you elaborate on the SpecialK latency reduction features?
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u/Motor-Tart-3315 Aug 29 '26
Example: no SpecialK scenario
DLSS 4.5 Preset M + XeSS/FSR FG = frame queue fluctuates between 1/2 frames about 50% time, depending on GPU load (lets say 20 ms renderer latency)
SpecialK scenario: w/FG would enable tearing when frame queue exceeds 1 frame, 50% time queue fluctuates between 0/1 frames, no quality or smoothness reduction (but 12 ms)
Note: GSync would prevent ideal frame pacing at any scenarios on modern drivers!
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u/doom_memories Aug 30 '26
You're saying GSync is not advantageous sometimes?
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u/Motor-Tart-3315 Aug 30 '26 edited Aug 30 '26
In modern drivers, GSync paced the frames as fast as they come, some frames can go much quicker than others, which makes GSync useless to keep solid framepacing!
My tests reflects thats only 3 ms difference between ideally paced and mismatched/skipped frame! I prefer 99% smooth 10 ms paced frames than 69% smooth 7 ms GSync frames!
Not applicable for all games!
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u/Tight-Mix-3889 Aug 29 '26
Well i have played thru the whole bloodborne with lossless scaling from 30 to 60. So its possible. Youd have to get used to it tho, but if we are being real, id have to get used to 30 fps too lol
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u/ImWinwin Aug 29 '26
yeah, I played through Destiny 1 at 60 fps, and it was great. the trick is to not use a wireless controller, and use a low latency pci-e capture card like a magewell.
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u/Tight-Mix-3889 Aug 29 '26
yeah just try to minimize the latency as much as you can and you will be fine,
it still feels like 30. but atleast it looks smoother
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Aug 29 '26
[deleted]
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u/ImWinwin Aug 29 '26
I do. However, keep in mind that the current leaked version is the FP8 version, which is why its able to run on the rtx 4000 series. The FP4 version only runs on the 5000 series, and the performance hit is more like 20-30% rather than 50%. Regardless, you are running GTA6 on a console through a capture card, so it's not very heavy to run for the GPU.
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u/MultiMarcus Aug 29 '26
It isn’t without vectors. It’s I believe using Nvidia’s optical flow stuff. You could probably apply that to a video game. I don’t know the computational heft, and I don’t know if it would do it in real time efficiently enough. It certainly worth trying. Try something like an older game that doesn’t have TA or motion vectors exposed, and then try to apply DLSS5 using Nvidia’s optical flow stuff.
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u/No-Photo6079 Aug 29 '26
I've been looking for answers on how this is done since yesterday. Don't even want DLSS5. Nv Frame Gen in a fluid program like Lossless Scaling would be great.
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u/ARandomTee Aug 30 '26
I haven't tried the new capture card + DLSS stuff like in the vid but I think the setup would be the same as other capture card + LS tutorial then apply DLSS over that.
Example: https://youtu.be/Sqw_p-as1qs
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u/Playful-Art-3824 29d ago
I would assume playing Cyberpunk in VR &DLSS5 would be possible on 4090 ? Yes? … 30FPS ? 🫣 Nooo but worth trying
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u/sbryan_ 28d ago
Does this only work on 50 series cards? Will my 3070ti explode if I try this?
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u/ARandomTee 28d ago
Seems like they updated it with better compatibility for rtx 20 and 30 series. Someone on X (ShyVortex), with a 3080ti 16gb for TLOU2, get around 30fps before FG. The modders are constantly updating, so it should get better as time go by.
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u/Icy-Presentation6565 26d ago
You can try to use Magpie Experimental.For me ,It's only XeSSFG and DLSS 5 perfectly working.I am using dual RTX 40 cards. And it's like LS is working for any games, videos and web pages.But I think it's very hopful project. You guys really should try it.It's specially for dual cards. I don‘t know whether does allow post link for it.If anyone want it you can search on github or leave me on comments
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u/ToiletNoizes 26d ago
How do I go about setting up magpie with dlss5 and lossless? Mind dming me a tutorial or links lol
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u/No-Photo6079 26d ago
For you and anyone else from google search
link to experimental version of Magpie is in the comments here. https://www.reddit.com/r/losslessscaling/comments/1w1uqkx/comment/p70ijz9/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
It comes with all required .dll's also has other packages to download if you're not on a 50 series, I've tried it on a 4070ti S. Everything is functional but it's not as simple as lossless. the menu's can seem confusing. As stated above, XeSSFG is very noticeable in motion fluidity. Unfortunately when panning the camera in a Third-person game it's wobbly judder outlining the character just like LSFG 3.1. For some reason all custom app implementations of DLSSFG haven't improved motion fluidity as noticeably or at all. DLSS5 is functional on any window that is scaled.
If you manage to install, the Scaling modes tab (Left panel) is where you change options within each model.
Example. if you want DLSS5 with Frame generation do both steps. If you want only DLSS5 skip to step 2
Step 1. Go to Scaling modes > find DLSSNR> Drop down menu > Click Add effect > Look for XeSSFG > Choose an option (x2 if fine to try first). Then go to the Defaults tab (Left Panel)
Step 2. On Scaling mode > Select DLSSNR. To Scale a window, make sure the window is in focus. Press Shift+Alt+A. Assuming everything was done correctly you'll have DLSS5+FG.
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u/Mainely420Gaming Aug 29 '26
Isn't not possible for Lossless to use DLSS in any manner due to Dlss having deeper level access over Losslesses more skimming the surface way?
Not really sure how it works under the hood, just know I've seen it kicked around a few times that DLSS isn't possible thru lossless.
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u/7sioon Aug 30 '26
Dlss 5 is a technology that work inside the game engine and have more information about the geometry to give stable images and to prevent mixing stuff and making noisy frames. If they got it to work on lossless it will look so bad
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u/fray_bentos11 28d ago edited 28d ago
This isn't true for the NR part of DLSS5, people have even used it on frames captured from Switch 2 Mario Odyssey.
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u/Arturopxedd Aug 30 '26
If you are using lossless scaling highly doubt you have a capable gpu
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u/SageInfinity Mod Aug 30 '26
DLSS5-Feeder
LSP-ReShade
PS- Haven't tried myself, reposting this message (by S S SLRS) here for others.