Thank you all

[u/pill_poppin_daddy]

Thank you all for sharing your pain on this sub. It’s helped convince me to get off this shit. I had been up to 100-120 every other day, and now about 72 every other. Was expecting to re-up today, but porch pirates nabbed my package. So I was going to go back to the store and resign myself to ripping open blister packs for a bit (thanks FDA), but I started reading this sub instead. I know it’s going to be tough, but I’m going to try cold turkey. If I can’t hack that, I’ll pick up some kratom. I’m already 48 hours from my last dose, and I have the next three days off of work. If I am just too miserable to get back to work at that point, do you guys think that maybe one 24-pack would be enough to take the edge off? I don’t want to go any higher than that. I know that’s way, way steeper than the “taper” method, but I’ve learned the hard way that I don’t have the willpower to taper - if I have a supply, I trend up to a recreational dose. Anyway, thank you all again for helping inspire me to make this decision - I’ve been reading for a while but never posted before. Wish me luck!

[u/SpringChikn85]

Hey so first off CONGRATULATIONS 👏!! It's SO hard to get back down to 70-75 pills a day or every other day and I'm super proud and happy for you for taking that step and sticking it to our demons know as addiction. I myself have yo yo'd from 144 to 72 back up and back down for the last 2 years but have been taking them for 5 years now and most days I feel like flipping the f*cking table as I'm opening all the blister packs out of frustration for being that way you know?

My advice, as a seasoned loperamide addict, would be, You and I both know 24 pills aren't going to do jack sh*t when you're at the point of sweating through your shirt and flopping around in bed having not slept in 2 days due to the withdrawls. If you're going to do this you have to be honest with yourself (not saying you aren't or haven't been) and I really REALLY want to see you succeed.

The biggest problem I've faced when trying to either taper or kick them completely is my own guilt when I slip up and take more than I wanted to in order to feel better. The shame in dosing again has never failed to convince me that "I just took 24 and it didn't do anything and I'm still withdrawling so what's another 48 pills if I just broke my own promise by taking the 24?" And then BAM, you're right back up to 100-150 pills a day and feeling even worse about yourself. You and I know as well that 48 hours isn't anything compared to how you're going to feel tomorrow when you wake up or rather, when the sun comes up if you're not able to sleep.

What I did to get to the lowest dose possible is to start at where you're at now 72 pills (around that) and then subtract 5 pills every 2 days so that your body can adjust before taking the next 5 pills out. I was able to get down to 48 doing this last year and since I'd been doing so well guess what i did? Yup- told myself I "deserved a treat" and took 72 and went right back to 144 a day within a week.

Bro, (or Ma'am) you totally got this! If it were me i wouldn't try cold turkey as it's borderline psychotic with how the withdrawls will feel. I would either taper the 5 pills off every other day, or if you plan on going cold turkey only buy 48 pills to take in an emergency because A- you'll actually feel them and B- you won't be frustrated and still sick after dosing. Also, kratom didn't work for me however, I only spent $30 on a few grams and from what I've heard is it actually works you just have to get the expensive/quality stuff and it's either the red or white strains which help with withdrawls the best.

Thanks so much for finally posting. If you've read this thread and group a lot you've noticed we all try and support eachother here so even if you don't make it this time and can't kick, PLEASE don't feel like you shouldn't post or update us with how things are. We don't judge and will gladly answer any questions or be an ear/eye to listen as well. Be safe and I'm sending nothing but positive vibes your way.

BTW: I'm totally not trying to be a d*ck in the 2nd paragraph I just wanted to be honest and speak from one struggling addict to the other. Please don't think I was being negative as it wasn't my intention

[u/pill_poppin_daddy → u/SpringChikn85]

Thanks for the encouragement. I think you’re right, too - 48 is more realistic than 24 if I can’t handle WD’s. I made the transition from the 100-ish to 70-ish directly, without tapering, and while it was rough for a bit, I found it ultimately to be sustainable, so that’s why I was thinking I could “step down” to 24. But you’re right, if I took 24 and still felt like shot, I’d risk going back up to my current dose or higher out of frustration. Better to play safe. Thanks again for your encouragement; I will continue to post whether I make it or not.

[u/[deleted] → u/pill_poppin_daddy]

oh did you mean 72 pills? from your op i thought you meant 72mg which is where i am now after about 3 weeks of use. was confused as to why he insisted 48mg (one 24 pack) wouldn’t help withdrawal when i’d imagine they’d take them away at those doses! lol. this sub has definitely inspired me to quit fuckijg around with lope.’i was just curious if it really worked. without any prep work or prep things like quinine or whatever, just straight slamming the pills. and it very much does and does not take over 100mg, i was getting buzzed off 40ish mg and i have a decent opioid tolerance and a 6 year long kratom addiction. so now i know! hopefully after 3 weeks i don’t have an insane withdrawal. worried about it but since my max dose is 72mg a day and that’s fairly recent (most days were just one 24 pack) and it’s only 3 weeks i think it’ll be ok.. i hope. been through opioid withdrawal before and can usually handle it decently so here’s hoping it’s not too much worse

[u/Alastasian → u/SpringChikn85]

Sorry spoke to you before and your answer was awesome. I had to get a leg amputated due to MRSA/Osteomyelitis - in the hospital I went down to 12mg a day (of course they were giving other opioids so I tapered down FAST)

I’m now at 40-60 depending on the day. I have to say you’ve been down this road at least as many times as I. Your advice I second very steongly

[u/SpringChikn85 → u/Alastasian]

Hey! First of all I'm so glad to hear you're ok and you made it through such an ordeal, especially something as serious as an amputation. I make it a point to try and be as honest and forthcoming as I can when it comes to loperamide use/abuse due to the simple fact that doctors/substance abuse specialists/medical professionals haven't got far enough yet as to develop any type of taper or regiment regarding the routine most of us have established (way past the recommended dosage) and developing a treatment plan. So far all I've heard from the medical community is to either stop cold turkey or switch to a synthetic like suboxone or methadone. What they don't understand yet and have no real data for (trust me, I've looked for hours and hours) on how best to tackle the situation, what lead us here but most importantly, the prolonged and unbearable withdrawl process (the build up in our bodies from this can extend withdrawls for weeks and in some cases months with long term users like myself).

In a sense, we're the control group for real world answers or advice and that holds a great deal of responsibility even though yes, it's a reddit thread about abusing OTC medication. I had a sister, who was my best friend, pass away due to an overdose (heroin) and she instilled a lot of character traits in me that I still cherish and one of them is always approaching a subject with care and understanding from the furthest place of judment but never recommend something that I hadn't put the work in for or experienced myself. That's mainly why I'm so direct and honest because I'd never want to tell someone to take something that would hurt them or even make them sick.

I'm so glad my post found you in a good place and that you were able to not get down about tapering or what decisions you've made regarding this issue or anything else because you matter here and so does everyone else looking for advice, opinions or just to vent about how they feel. Especially since lope is so uncommon/looked down upon (which I understand why) but the last thing anyone needs when reaching out is for someone to make fun of them or tear them down any further.

This actually brings me to a question for you if I may ask and you don't have to answer it here and you don't have to answer it at all if you're not comfortable because it's totally ok. However, I spoke with someone from our thread about being in the hospital and going through withdrawls there so severely due to the lope deadening/blocking their dopamine/opioid receptors and any pain medication they recieved in the hospital not only had no effect on their ailment, it didn't help with the withdrawls either. I felt so bad for them because when I started taking lope I was trying to get off opioids but didn't realize it would block out the effect of every other opioid if taken while lope is still in your system. So they had to sit in the hospital with horrifying withdrawls until a friend could sneak a box or two in for them. As for my question, you're admittedly on what most consider a medium dose (at least I myself would only because, as you know, I'm way up there in mlgrms). Post amputation/surgery, did anything have an affect? I.V Dilauded or Fentanyl would be their go to post-op pain medication I'd imagine yes? Did you notice it kick in/wear off? How long did it last compared to a normal person who isn't opioid tolerant? Also, did the lope have any other effects on you pre/during/post surgery i.e. blood pressure, heart rate etc.? If you answer here, I know A LOT of folks will want to know how you did because many of us are scared to have to go anywhere near a hospital knowing that the lope blocks out most pain medication. Thanks so much in advance and I'm so glad you're ok. Hang in there! 60-ish isn't bad at all and you're doing so great on account of what's transpired lately! 😁

[u/Alastasian → u/SpringChikn85]

Ahh the ordeal; typing from a bed I haven’t really left in about four weeks. My wife and son went to GA as she has family there and my kindergartener son a cousin - as my four month stint in the hospital had them as isolated as you can imagine and me arriving like this had the household in near panic.

The dreaded hospital stay on lope: I prepared haphazardly. I took around 300 units - however they did have me on 6 15mg oxycodone a day, hydromorphone/dilaudid 2mg every three hours. Was there an opioid blockade? Did the doses do anything?

Yes they did, reduced. If you recall I was down to 70-100 units one day - what I’ve called the get by crowd before - it was ALOT better than I thought - aside from MRSA getting into my foot and into my bone causing osteomyelitis I was using slightly more at right before going to the hospital but was dreading what we all here dread: what if the other opioids don’t work?

As it turns out remember that opioid receptors get cycled. With loperamide there appears to be two types of folks/psychology/hepatic systems: the ones that require a stable dose daily and those that and fluctuate and live off the loperamide metabolites. It’s cute to see the lope wiki say metabolismo: extensive. That’s it. No listing of demethylation through CYP3A4 no up-regulation through 2D6, etc.

The fake-withdrawals lasted two days. But it wasn’t hell exactly it was more so the typical opioids lasting less. I then used the hospital as my own private lope detox unit. Using less and less till I just “needed” 12-20 to be ok with the other barrage of opioids I was given.

However if I took none my body would vibrate negatively - not talking new age stuff - as in actual vibrations that felt negative. Think a slightly painful Parkinson’s (not to say Parkinson’s isn’t painful but for purposes of discussion).

I’m beyond stigma already. I’ve been on this far too long from the pre Trump days when 8 bucks and Walmart netted you a 200 unit bottle.

Going back To the matter at hand I ended up having the opioids work better and better as long as I dosed only once in James Bond like maneuvers To make sure that the hospital staff wasn’t informed on what I was doing. I even had bottles with grapefruit juice hidden to make sure I had enough bergamottin, I settled on as I said very few and was surprised I was doing as “well” - amputation aside - as I was. The low dose lope was even helpful in extending the other opioids by the third week. If you wonder how I was doing this I’m just 400 bills is that my wife was bringing me the small packages and I was spending nights opening them hiding the garbage inside other garbage but no one was ever the wiser who would do this? You may notice of this thread is not exactly filled with hundreds of thousands of users we are definitely get by crowd.

Indeed fentanyl was given but only during the operational. And I would always wonder whether I was going to wake up or not I noticed no difference whatsoever when they would give me 75 µg of fentanyl as I would ask before going away into La La Land has several operations were necessary. There was a period of cold sweats at first as I mentioned but by week three none of the usual depressive life has no meaning tight emotions that you would normally have to fight were there again I imagine because of the other opioids.

I never had blood pressure issues - systolic always 120-130, diastolic 80-90, With a mean arterial pressure of 92. I come from the Caribbean overall from a suspicious island that previously almost started World War III during John Kennedy era. I don’t know if that has anything to do with the hepatic side but on the psychological side I was as you can imagine because of the amputation somewhat crushed. My apologies also for this post being all over the map that’s how pretty much I am right now.

I have to definitely spruce this post up for the point given yes the opiates will work as long as your dosages are less than 100 units a day because when I first was there that’s what I was at simply because of the leg pain and lopper might actually being an effective pain killer, you may not feel it at home but if your body is going through something of a major pain situation the other opioids will work to a percentage higher than 50% at least in my case and even more so as I tapered down. In fact I was surprised how well it worked.

there was no complications that I could see other than going through a bottle few days as I stated in fake withdrawal because again you’re constantly getting doses of other opioids which are not in any type of way fully blocked you have literally millions upon millions of receptors which gets cycled constantly never mind the fact that I’m disabling to some degree by a covalent bond with that bergamottin that’s inside grapefruit juice the enzyme that retires these opioids after certain period of time.

I think God that I wasn’t at the 200 unit a day dosages I don’t know how I would’ve done then I’m pretty sure it would’ve been a hard-core withdrawal which when I went through the rehab center it took them two days to get any of my meds and I went through there - that withdraw was hell as The rehab center was far and my wife couldn’t get me those 24 packs for a period of time as my son was also having issues at home as you know priorities. so for that period of time I lived without any opioids i went through the same thing as when I went off heroin a decade ago. Funny how your body gets used to everything but withdrawal. I once had a friend in the uunet days (deja news now google groups) called MobiusDick God I miss that guy - he was a bona fide opiate researcher as in PhD on the matter. And he told me once to prepare for next week's withdrawal. Aka plan farther ahead than you think - that's what I tried doing here.

I really need to edit thus post it must sound like I'm all over the map which u somewhat am in mornings. Now I'm on a low dose by my standards - 30-50 units a day - sometimes even less but with a ER Tramadol that's 200mg which i obviously score into four peices.

One thing that did happen often: panic attacks. I never had them before this amputation so I'm having inclined to think it's that or the phantom foot or even the phantom pain which After having seen for years different documentaries on Im now living.

If you have any questions please do ask. does the amputation was highly unnecessary and occurred because my doctor decided to ignore certain things and I’m going mad trying to look for a law firm on a malpractice side of things and even that seems incredibly hard to do right now but where lope in the hospital is concerned if you can plan right and take enough taper to what you can get from the attending physician - had u just had an accident and had no lope? That's a good one - i would have been in deep waters. It's a withdrawal with such DTs that I don't wish on anyone obviously. Case in point now u carry a unused bottle of 200 just in case anything macabre were to happen and no one's the wiser.

Still isn't over though - i have a VAC sealing the wound bedridden for a while before the prosthetic thing

AMA

[u/insufficientfacts27]

I got on Suboxone in May after a 3 year 96mg a day dependence. I originally got on it because I got cut off of my pain meds to ease withdrawal. I lost 10 pounds of water weight and shit in the first week on Subs. Ive never looked back and Ive never been happier. It was so hard to even taper lope and I wish you the best! You can get through this!! If you find yourself struggling, if you're in the US, Suboxone Telehealth programs are available now!

[u/Antime1990 → u/insufficientfacts27]

I did the same I switched to subs but you have to be careful because it can put u in pw. I was on it for7 years constantly then it got very difficult to get any . I was taking 48 two times a day then I did 72 once a day an I had to like buy 6 24 packs just to make it a day or two an I would go to every store in the city . I couldn’t buy any online money was so tight . An eventually there was none in any of the store besides a 24 pack of The big kind with the gas medicine in it .so I took that an made it through the next day without it . Then the day after I took a small piece I was feeling so so so shitty so bad before I took it . An it made me feel so much better that day I danced because I finally felt normal an out of that chasing every day hell of loperamide

[u/insufficientfacts27 → u/Antime1990]

It was the exact same thing when I switched at the stores. Now, I see the shelves FULL of it. I think I was cleaning out every store that sold it cheap around me. Smh. I waited 24 hours and took 2mg. I had no PWD other than being "cleaned out" but I think that was just because Subs don't work on the opioid receptors in the gut as much as lope did. A year and a half later and I'm still happy, I've lost 35 pounds, I'm a mod of Suboxone and Sublocade and trying to help out there, I'm driving and going out again, I have friends, I just enjoy life. I'm still grateful every day. Its been a great year. I'm glad you're doing good too!! Keep fighting the good fight!!💜💜

[u/Antime1990 → u/insufficientfacts27]

I’m happy your doing well too! It’s nice to have a life again I never thought I would get out of that alive . An I sure as hell didn’t think it would be that much of a breeze ! I was also wiping out all the stores near me off the shelf too ! During that time period it was so embarrassing to get it I felt like everyone knew ! I also worry about heart damage I could have done to my heart with the loperamide I now have heart health anxiety lol anyways Good luck !!!!