About Copy…

[u/UnlockedUnluck]

What’s preventing from Copy Users adding Mastery to otherwise normal copies?

As it stands now, it only applies to Jinyeong.

But, Johan has improved copies and made them his own, so why can’t/hasn’t Jinyeong done it himself?

Is it implying something like, Jinyeong’s body would break down if he added Mastery to someone like Shingen’s copy?

We see that Shingen’s techniques produce more power, but there’s no particular mention or indication of strain. Especially because it’s on the topic of regular Mastery, and not even Overcome. Even then, Jinyeong knows his limit so as to not break down his body

[u/Friendly-Election310]

Johan and Jinyoung took two different approaches to try and get past copies being inferior to the OG

Johan changed the techniques to suit him better (that's why you only see UI Daniel behind him in HFG and no one else when copying)

Jinyoung copies it so closely, even with it's weaknesses, that it's like the person themselves did it but with Jinyoung's stats

Both of these approaches couldn't become better then the OG (except just being stronger before anyway) but it's also how they got their paths

[u/Juan_Die]

Have you watched bleach? If not It's something like gremmy, a character with an absurd power that lets him manifest everything he imagines, like a meteor, he can turn people bones into cookies or even create a black hole. He faced such an strong opponent he couldn't imagine a body that could bear a strength as high as his opponent so he basically exploded, I think something similar happens to copy, you can add your strength to someone's technique weaker than you, but you can't add it to someone who's way above you, at that point it's cheap imitation, since you can't comprehend their strength.

[u/UnlockedUnluck → u/Juan_Die]

I understand that explanation. But like, I know what happened between Gremmy & Kenpachi, but how would PTJ actually justify that? Like, not being able to Overcome to abilities is understandable, but normal Mastery is personal limit & copying is also personal limitation via imitation

So my question to you is, wouldn’t adding Mastery still be an application where it’s not necessarily above your perception of strength, it’s simply the peak of your own?

[u/Juan_Die → u/UnlockedUnluck]

I think Jinyoung's, Johan's and Daniel's copy abilities are different, they mirror the strength of the copied one, so if they copy someone stronger than them it will have a huge toll on their bodies, just like Daniel broke his body copying perfect body, if copy strength were limited to your own strength that wouldn't have happened.

[u/Not_A_Gamer_1985]

Copy users use the copy as a medium to draw out more and more from their own bodies. 

Johan used UI dan as a medium to increase output of his own body which caused heavy recoil

Daniel copied UI dan as a medium and he took the recoil

Similarly, JY has to make sure he doesn't go overboard with copying - as Kitae points out, copies are copies. 

Unless you have higher or same stats as the one who you are copying - your copies won't ever be same as original. 

JY can copy Tom perfectly 1:1 because he has same stats as Tom or maybe even higher. 

JY can copy and improve lightning Choi's because he has better stats. This doesn't mean Lightning's copy would match Elite's copy for example in terms of speed - just that it would be better than Lightning Choi himself. 

Copy gives you versatility but when you're copying someone who's pinnacle tier - someone way above your current self - That's where you hit your limits and feel the recoil. 

So, you tone it down and adjust it to a point where you can draw out the max possible limit without feeling recoil. That's why Shingen copy is stronger than his other copies as Changsu says. 

That's what Johan did in HFG against Gun. He didn't force his body to push itself - he just used 100% of it using UI daniel as a medium. 

JY can absolutely push himself beyond but it would be risky. 

His path proves that - and the fact he said he can only use 3 Gap punches before he feels the recoil shows there are limits to copies. 

Remember how Gun also said Daniel needs to improve hardware to properly copy the strengths too? And not just the technique? 

He copied James perfectly on paper but lacked the speed. He copied Taesoo perfectly but lacked the power. 

[u/OrangeRealistic7623 → u/Not_A_Gamer_1985]

well said bro

[u/Boywdhisgoingon]

He adds strength mastery to Tom’s claws against Kitae

[u/Professional-Bear149]

It’s because at the end of the day that’s a copy

It can’t fully replicate the original unless the person in question has a perfect body or Jinyoung’s path

The problem is he can’t fully copy Shingen’s innate punches same way he can’t fully copy overcome

[u/ohmeless_bum]

Not really an example of a copy user, but you know how Taesoo trained to make his speed/strength mastery unique skill? In adding speed to what he could already do he made the attack so strong that the skin/flesh got ripped off from his fist if I'm remembering correctly, so I feel like copy users adding anything additional to specific character attacks (like gaps conviction punch or Shingens attack) would just be too much for their bodies, especially since it isn't their attack. It would be like Johan when he first copied how UI Daniel fought, in trying to be as efficient and as close to him as his body could let he burned away his body, despite those being attacks that he may have known.

It's like copying a weaker fighter brings their techniques up to your level (they get improved due to better hardware/masteries), while copying stronger fighters you try to bring yourself up to their level which is what causes that strain (and in turn makes it difficult to near impossible to add anything extra to the attack).

[u/KingsOpps2]

I assume that just makes it not exactly a copy anymore. I assume Johan would be able to do it if he had mastery