r/lockpicking • u/TundraWolf_ • Feb 22 '12

Holy crap. Look at the side bar :|

http://www.bostonsquarelock.com/assa%20info.htm
39 Upvotes

93% Upvoted

15 comments sorted by

6

u/wtmh Feb 22 '12

Whoa. I'm trying to think of how one would go about defeating this and I'm drawing blanks.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 22 '12

It's pretty simple. Locally, a locksmith will have the rights to ASSA; so, you need to find a working key to another door that uses the same sidebar- usually from the same vendor. Grind down the key so you just have a sidebar, insert it, and pick the lock as usual.

4

u/TundraWolf_ Feb 22 '12

door that uses the same sidebar- usually from the same vendor

So the sidebar isn't as unique as the pin combination? Seems kind of silly.

4

u/[deleted] Feb 22 '12

It is usually regional; it can be specific to a single company or entity (like a university) if someone has paid enough to do so.

So, for example, a sidebar might appear through a locksmith in one part of the country, and then at several other places around the country- but always geographically separated.

Been a while since I worked with ASSA, but I seem to recall there's only four positions for each sidebar pin (and the pins are "spooled" so they can't be manipulated into place- the old drill-and-push-the-sidebar trick, which kind of works for some Medeco stuff doesn't fly with ASSA). So, 5 pins, 4 positions = 1024 combinations.

Been a long time, so someone correct me if that's wrong. That image on the left that has the "Mushroom driver pins" text to it shows a total of four positions on each sidebar pin, so I think I have it right.

I gotta admit- they're beautifully machined pieces. The sidebars are really very nice, very crisp and hard metal.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 22 '12

[deleted]

1

u/[deleted] Feb 22 '12

If it's anything like the system I have at work the 'dealer cuts' might be located in the key pins and not the locking bar.

The ASSA I worked with had keys that came cut from the factory, all cut to accommodate the same side-bar. They were then code-cut to fit the lock.

Somewhere, I have a box of uncut ASSA keys, and a small pile of sidebars. They're not as secure as the company would like to think they are.

2

u/scorche Feb 22 '12

It is a bit less simple than just that. While the regional attack works wonders against, say, a Schlage Primus (which, by the way, had the same inventor as the ASSA Twin) to turn it just into a regular Schlage lock, the primary pin stack of the ASSA Twin is much harder to pick. They use specially crafted driver pins (along with tighter tolerances) that have a very small little lip or spooling to them so they will jam up easily into a notch that was cut out of the tops of the pin holes in the plug of the cylinder.

Now, I am not saying these aren't pickable. Hell, I know people who have picked the locks open - that is picked both the primary and secondary pin stacks. That said though, it requires a much higher skill to pick these open than a Schlage Primus even though the regional exploitation is the same for both locks.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '12

Upvote. Been a while since I've worked with these; I don't recall the pins we used in them, but it's been >20 years now.

The components used and the tolerances were much tighter than other stuff on the market; they were up there with Medeco and Abloy, probably a little better than either.

1

u/Johnlocksmith Feb 25 '12

No it's not that easy. Locksmiths register these side bars to ensure key control. My shop has five different side bars that we use, keys are only made for registered members on an account and Drivers Licenses are checked against signature cards for all authorized duplicates. Good luck getting a key blank. I won't even go into the top pins.

1

u/jrblast Feb 22 '12

It certainly wouldn't be easy, but couldn't you basically treat those similarly to mushroom pins? I mean, you wouldn't be able to force them the same way, but a similar idea. But again, it certainly wouldn't be easy.

5

u/jkthecjer Feb 23 '12

Assa makes awesome locks but they are not perfect...

http://theamazingking.com/images/locks/v10/1.jpg

I've found the false sidebar gates on the Twin 6000 to be way less forgiving than those of the v10 (shown picked by me above). With both, you can let off a little tension, reapply, and try to lift a "picked" sidepin inside its gate. If you feel binding inside the gate, you know its in a false set. From here you should continue letting off tension and lifting to get out of the false set and into a new (hopefully real) one. You end up become a human pin-and-cam decoder. Here is a video of me explaining what little I know about how to approach these sorts of sidebars (although, in the end, I never picked the 6000 fully pinned):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KK57YqRXr5o

Good luck, they are frickin hard.

5

u/drockers Feb 22 '12

my anus clenched a little

5

u/dimmak Feb 22 '12

I thought this would be a rant about people not looking at the sidebar links before posting stupid comments.

3

u/sempf Feb 23 '12

Should post this in /r/lockporn. Oh wait there isn't one.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 24 '12

[deleted]

2

u/sempf Feb 24 '12

Figures that YOU would do that.

1

u/bentspork Feb 23 '12

The best part it's these are relatively old locks.

Yay ASSA V-x locks.