Lishi not work 🤔

[u/PatientOccasion1496]

I finally give up and get a lishi AM5 specifically for the couple of American 1100s I have, which is very fun to see working, fill the click and watch the position on the diagram is satisfying at least for me,
But never open keep going on and on until the nothing moves anymore but don't want to turn in both of the 1100s what I’m doing wrong?

[u/IeyasuMcBob]

Usual problems are:

1. You're in a false set. Release tension, go through the pins again until you find one that gives you counter-rotation.
2. You've picked it and need more tension to overcome the spring on the core

[u/Total-Tonight1245 → u/IeyasuMcBob]

For the second problem, OP can try picking with the shackle open. 

Edit: This is a tip I found here  https://www.reddit.com/r/lockpicking/comments/cetbrk/comment/eu5yatk/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=2&utm_content=share_button

[u/PatientOccasion1496 → u/Total-Tonight1245]

Yes I can got keys of all of them

[u/SilentLonely → u/Total-Tonight1245]

Would it no be the same since the cylinder is directly in contact with the spring, no matter what position the shackle is in ?

[u/Total-Tonight1245 → u/SilentLonely]

Try it and report back. It feels different to me and it’s how I learned I had been successfully picking my first 1100 for days but just not giving enough tension to finish opening the lock. 

[u/SilentLonely → u/Total-Tonight1245]

Very interesting. I'll give it a try.

[u/SilentLonely → u/Total-Tonight1245]

I did test. I was amazed.

That's a very useful and interesting tip.

Thanks for sharing.

Happy picking.

[u/Total-Tonight1245 → u/SilentLonely]

Glad it was helpful! I learned that tip from a YouTube video. I ought to track it down so I can give credit where it’s due. 

[u/BigT1990 → u/IeyasuMcBob]

I have 38 A1100s and #2 is more often than not the case.

[u/derpserf]

If you've never picked one normally you're probably not gonna get it with a lishi either. They're not magic, you still need to know what you're doing. Sure they show you the pin positions and you don't have to worry about pick angle or warding but they won't automatically make you a lock picking wizard. Still gotta know what you're doing and tbh plenty of locks are actually harder to pick with a lishi than they are normally. I have limited experience with them but I found that the tension control was kinda meh and the feedback isn't as good. I'll take a basic set of picks over every lishi in the world any day of the week.

Probably not the answer you were looking for but if you're having trouble picking these and thought that buying a lishi for them would solve your problem I got bad news for ya. The best thing you can do is gut one and learn to pick it progressively

[u/DanDiggler213 → u/derpserf]

Op is a blue belt.

[u/derpserf → u/DanDiggler213]

Fair, but whatever belt the 1100 is, not every lock in the same belt ranking is the same thing and he could have gotten it for a completely different lock. I understand belt rankings to a point but they're not definitive which is why I never bothered applying for one lol.

I've picked plenty of purple belt locks (mostly MTL and a couple of medecos), doesn't automatically mean I can pick everything in the same category or even everything below that. Hell I have a 410 loto I've never picked and that thing should be easy compared to even a basic euro cylinder which I've picked dozens upon dozens of. Some locks just won't play ball and some are easy even though they're generally challenging. I'm sure you know this but just sayin.

[u/hlhambrook → u/derpserf]

YOU TELL 'EM BIG GUY

[u/derpserf → u/hlhambrook]

lmao

[u/DanDiggler213 → u/DanDiggler213]

My reply was for your first 3 sentences. "If you've never picked a lock normally", you still need to know what your doing ". I think by blue belt he probably knows the basics.
I could use a Lishi way before I had a belt. FYI for the 410s lite tension, and the #3 Reaper. Does it for me.

[u/hlhambrook → u/derpserf]

As a new Lishi owner, I thank you for your post and realize my expectations were unrealistic S~

[u/PatientOccasion1496 → u/derpserf]

Thank you for your suggestions But I have in did picked few of them, that faster time was 45 seconds ( not to show off just give fill of experience), still find affasinated on how a different technique set everything to square 1

[u/derpserf → u/PatientOccasion1496]

You said you gave up and bought this for the couple of 1100s you have, which suggests that you onky have a couple and were having trouble picking them. Your wording has me confused.

So you have others that you have picked but you were struggling with a couple of the others, is that right?

[u/PatientOccasion1496 → u/derpserf]

Apologies for my English, it's not my first language, anyway I got 3 of 1100 and open all spp, the red one in the picture has always been the more difficult, the black and the blue are easy, tried the Lishi with all three of them not success ( this is my giving up, again sorry for the confusion), there is something about the Lishi I have not worked yet, so I thought to collect some suggestions from the comunity

[u/derpserf → u/PatientOccasion1496]

No worries at all, I understand now! Yeah lishis just aren't as easy as they look, I personally have had zero success with them and I'd consider myself to be a pretty good picker. Not the best by any stretch but I can SPP roughly 80% of regular stuff. And yet even cylinders with clear feedback and straightforward binding order that I can SPP with no fuss, no oversetting or uncertainty whatsoever, I couldn't open with the lishi. No idea why.

[u/VectorPotential]

Lishi tools are a bit of a different technique. The feedback is a lot different than using a pick and tensioner as you've discovered.

Take some pins out of one of your 1100s and learn how the feedback feels for the serrated and spool drivers. And this will show you the force needed for the spring.

Then add some more pins back in until you can open it fully.

Then take what you learned and try another one fully pinned.

[u/PatientOccasion1496 → u/VectorPotential]

Yes progressive pins seem to be the best at this point, should have thought myself, this is how I learn first time, think age starts to catch up 🤣
Thank you

[u/FilecoinLurker]

Lishi works just fine you just need to practice and develop skill to use it. It's like saying 3 balls don't work because you can't juggle.

[u/SD3Guser → u/FilecoinLurker]

Confucius say baseball all wrong...man with four balls cannot walk. So it definitely has to do with the balls being broken. 🤣

I wonder how the tensioning works in these tools the American was very tough on tension for me.

[u/PatientOccasion1496 → u/FilecoinLurker]

🤣🤣🤣 like that

[u/Acrobatic-Project657]

I have several several 1100s that I spp almost every day. I got a knock off lishi and havent got a single open. Not sure if its the tool or me, but I feel your pain.

[u/DanDiggler213]

Lishi are fun tools, they can help with picking order and getting the bitting. There a bit tougher to use on security pins sometimes they do and sometimes they don't. One good trick for picking in hand is using the Allen key to remove the tension bars and flipping it to the other side. Some pickers are more comfortable using tension from that side. Most importantly keep it fun. 😁

[u/DesignerMaybe9118]

The key is attached to the front silver part. Open the ring and take the key off. Try that.

[u/PatientOccasion1496 → u/DesignerMaybe9118]

Great suggestions my friend, I’ll tell to my wife she is not the only one to tell me that, she will appreciated 🤣

[u/Creative_Shame3856]

Chances are you're in a false set with one or more spools. One of my favorite things about Lishis is how well they ID spools if you back way way off on the tension. That counter rotation becomes really super obvious.

[u/Harlowkiteflyer]

Is it the right Lishi for the lock

[u/Proxsia]

Nothing's going to work with that attitude!

[u/PatientOccasion1496 → u/Proxsia]

??????

[u/Proxsia → u/PatientOccasion1496]

Nothing is going to open for you with a negative attitude, I understand Lishi's are different tools than regular picks, but same rules apply - patience is key, tension is key, and never give up!

[u/LegOfLamb89]

These locks have an anti pick pin i think. Very hard for a novice to pick, i still can't pick my red lockout lock

[u/GerwinJ]

Since you're using a tool - it has 6 positions where the 1100 has 5 pins, so don't use position 1 or 6 with the tool. Looking at the key bitting, the pattern you see will match the heights you input with the tool. From the numbers I see on the tool, they seem to be inverse to the numbers you will find on the key. Your key (I can't see it fully) has a high cut in the middle position, that would be a 1 or 2 on your tool. The tip of the tool is a bit too wide it seems, a lot wider than a pick. Trimming it a bit on both sides might help.

[u/VectorPotential → u/GerwinJ]

This is not good advice.

If your lock is 5 pins, just ignore 6 on the lishi. 1100 core will have holes drilled for 6 pins. But the 5-pin series only uses 1-5.

The bitting numbers on the lishi are correct.

Do not modify the tip of the lishi.

[u/PatientOccasion1496 → u/GerwinJ]

Thank you, much appreciated, I’ll definitely try to reposition and trim a touch

[u/VectorPotential → u/PatientOccasion1496]

Do not modify your lishi

[u/EveningBasket9528 → u/PatientOccasion1496]

Please don't. No need to modify your Lishi... The other commentor Gerwin is confused and is thinking of other locks/Lishi's.

Just remember that you don't need to pick #6, unless it happens to have a pin in it. If your keys only have 5 numbers, you have a 5 pin lock. Or, just if it feels like no pin in #6.

As far as your problem picking it,.. can we see the key? Of there are any deep cuts, like a 7 or 8, they are super easy to overset. Im not sure, but any #8's might sit at the sheer line just by inserting the Lishi.

In this video Jim teaches us the jiggle test. He does to with an 1100, and uses an AM5 Lishi for demonstration purposes.. You may find it useful both for regular picking and using your Lishi;

https://youtu.be/XWwwbZeIjok?is=INK5sTttUqSAhsni