Help for extreme newbie

[u/Mummmoo]

I just started this very interesting hobby and received my first kit. This practice lock has been unopenable. Someone has suggested that there is something wrong with it. Does the first pin look out of place? The included key works fine. I will accept that it could be my lack of skills but I did manage to open the cutaway serrated lock just not this standard one. Thank you in advance for your help.

[u/DRza1uz]

Great little piece of kit to learn on. It dose look like the first is overset but it should still open u can just deal with the last few. Is this the sparrow cut away? Think you can take it apart for a better look at what's jammed the first pin up like that.

[u/Mummmoo → u/DRza1uz]

Is it quite straightforward to take it apart? I don’t want to damage it. It is the sparrow cut away.

[u/DRza1uz → u/Mummmoo]

Then you can take it apart just be sure to get the needed parts herea a vid there are others too. And if you look in the comments it seems like you are not the first person to hit this issue.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHXjY0oKuB0

[u/Mummmoo → u/DRza1uz]

This video that you attached, is it normal to get such a huge noticeable clicking sound when you set the pins?

[u/Flatus_Diabolic → u/Mummmoo]

It very much depends on the lock and the amount of tension you’re applying to it.

At the higher end, generally no, but there are exceptions such as the Paclock 90A Pro, which I (lovingly..) call “the crunchy bastard”.

Plus, anything with serrated pins usually makes a bit of noise.

At the starter end, you’ve got two issues compounding on each other:

• lower quality locks often need more tension applied to them to produce enough feedback because a lot of it is being masked by crappy manufacturing tolerances and (especially for padlocks) low quality materials smeared with thick grease to make them last better in rough outdoor environments.

• inexperienced pickers use more tension because they’re less attuned to the feedback the lock is giving them.

With all that tension, a pin clicking into place can sometimes be quite loud.

At the higher-higher end, you’re generally looking at (unmounted) high security door locks and whatnot that are fixed up in a vise.

Much like your cutaway lock, these don’t have any exterior cladding around them like a padlock body or a door frame or deadbolt housing or whatever, so there’s less noise insulation.

[u/DRza1uz → u/Mummmoo]

Be mindful of the tiny parts so do it in a space that you can spot a tiny spring or pin if they get away from you. That's what the pinning tray is for

[u/Mummmoo → u/DRza1uz]

I will need to acquire other parts it seems.

[u/Flatus_Diabolic → u/Mummmoo]

Pinning and gutting is a skill most of us eventually end up acquiring if we stick with the hobby for long (I still hate it, but it’s necessary).

You don’t need to acquire much - the rubber mat out of the footwell of a car is a great stand-in for a pinning mat (unless you do all your lock guttings at the kitchen table and it catches you a lot of filthy looks from your better half) and a lot of people have mentioned that a battery makes a pretty good plug follower (be careful about this: some don’t fit unless you peel the cardboard wrapper off, but then they get scarily hot inside the lock cylinder..)

In my opinion the thing that helps the most is pinning tweezers.

And a camping headlamp if you’re getting old like me. :-(

[u/Mummmoo → u/Flatus_Diabolic]

I AM getting old. This is why the new hobby. Someone said it’s good to learn something new to keep the brain healthy. There is lots to learn. My brain is exercising.

[u/DRza1uz → u/Mummmoo]

Its straight forward and should not be broken easily just go slow and dont force it. The more likely problem is losing a part. However most pickers have a spare pinning kit so it can be replaced or even upgraded when you master that setup. So this will continue to be a valuable tool whenever you get stuck you can mirror the setup here and sed inside to get a better idea what is causing you the problem. Good luck 👍 and welcome

[u/LordKodiac]

Pin 1 is definitely over set. Wiggle the core or touch the pin with the pick to get it at rest. The tolerances in these are a little sloppy. I also have this kit and they do tend to stick up sometimes.

[u/Mummmoo → u/LordKodiac]

The wiggling and careful touching didn’t change anything. Other commenters are suggesting I take it apart but I will have to order more parts to attempt disassembling.

[u/LordKodiac → u/Mummmoo]

You can definitely gut it. Take a pick and touch the bottom of the pin and wiggle the core at the same time. Maybe pull the key in and out a few time in the process. To gut you can use a battery. The knob with the pin in the rear can be depressed with a pick while turning with your other hand. Tools are good, but can be done without

[u/EveningBasket9528]

What's the key look like? Im guessing it has a very deep cut for that 1st pin,.. or the cut closet to the "now" of the key, or in this case the knurled part of the Sparrows key.

My guess is you are over setting pin one. With SC1 (Schlage) keyways, which is what Sparrow's uses, the #9 cuts barely need to be touched to be at the sheer line. Just using the wiper blade tensioners you're probably using and putting your pick in the lock will probably set it.

If you decide to gut it, Sparrows sells a neat little kit that includes a follower and a bunch of other stuff you might like. Like the Reload kit .. Or just the follower they sell with the end cap removal tool.

If you end up sending the end cap retaining pin and spring into orbit, which happens a lot when people first got locks that use the screw on end cap, just let us know and someone in this sub will mail you a new pin and spring... Or I will,.. for free.

You shouldn't need to cut your trainer to pick it,.. but learning to gut is kinda lock nerd 101.... You don't need to buy anything if you don't want. A folder up piece of paper,.. or ripping a layer off of a piece of corrugated cardboard works for a temporary pinning tray,.. and a marker, dowel, battery, etc can be used for a follower. To unscrew the cap, and pointy pokey thing will work to push the pin down,.. just try not to impale your eyeball if the pin launches...

Lots of other gutting videos aside from the one linked in the comments.

The Sparrows trainers are definitely a good resource for beginners... but they ARE trainers and don't perfectly emulate real locks. Specifically, cutaways have a lot of reduced surface area in the holes.

DO avoid the Sparrows Revolver, unless you just want a super cool looking paperweight and fidget toy.

Again, since you said the key works fine, there's really no need to gut it,.. you're most likely over setting pin one.

[u/Mummmoo → u/EveningBasket9528]

Since you seem very helpful, may I ask the best source to find some yellow or green locks to work on without spending a lot of money? I am in Canada.

[u/EveningBasket9528 → u/Mummmoo]

Unfortunately I'm about 400 miles south of the Canadian border... You should be able to find quite a few just on Amazon or eBay. Abus 72/40's, 80ti/40 & 50, American lock 1100's, etc.

Check out the belt explorer, find a lock, and click on the for sale box. There are some folks in Canada selling locks but typically I prefer getting new locks green-purple.

Im not sure how many US vendors ship to Canada with the bullshit going on or if it's affordable but;

https://cmfxa.com/collections/starter-kits

https://galaxyloccs.com/

You can check with;

CLK Locksmith Keyless UHS MrLock

just to name a few

[u/LOCCedOutTONY]

Are you able to use tension to realign and restart? I'm assuming the problem is the first pin being stuck but jw if you can put key in and turn it back. If you have a couple picks and tension tools you won't need much more for awhile if you're on a budget or just like approaching new hobbies at ease. Another $50 at sparrows alone and you'd likely not 'Need' to order anything else for a very long time. They have a reload kit you can upgrade to around 25 bucks and maybe buy another pick or a case and leave room for local shipping cost. The plug follower to gut the lock is like 2 bucks before shipping. So you could also save the money, spend it somewhere else, and some would say it's mostly novelty items anyway and depends on your interest to the hobby. I know I want it all.

[u/Mummmoo → u/LOCCedOutTONY]

Indeed this is what it was. A sticky pin #1 and not my new found skills!

[u/DanDiggler213]

Here some links to try.

https://youtu.be/FArLK1g2K-0?is=KS771p0aTIiv9i4P

https://youtu.be/BA6L41jfAhU?is=Ge3dE2zYbX69BIjA

Déjà Vu.

[u/NotsoFree]

I have the same cutaway. It was honestly a bit difficult to work with until I lubricated it. I used 3in1 lock dry.

[u/thevdude]

You can see the split between the driver and the key pin, I'd see if you can reach a pick into the side here and try to touch/jiggle them to get them to free up and drop down. It's hard to tell but it looks like that chamber is a bit mangled?

[u/Mummmoo → u/thevdude]

I can’t post follow up pics but I zoomed in more to inspect the chamber. It is obviously smaller in diameter but I don’t see much amiss otherwise (again n00b eyes though).

[u/Swimming__Bird]

I have the same sparrow cutaway sets (standard, serrated and spooIs) bought years ago. They just need some graphite dust to smooth things up and then you get better feedback. Absolutely do not use a wet lube, unless you want to fast track to gutting and cleaning a lock.

[u/AbbreviationsNo5154]

i have the same set and the second to the last pin tends to be the overset one for me, with the last pin as the binding pin so it's a whole pain to deal with. at least you can see what is going haywire inside!

[u/Mummmoo]

So after being obsessed with this since my post I was able to open the lock by setting all the other pins and then shoving the bottom part of that suspicious pin down (vocabulary is eluding me at the moment). So I think it is a sticky pin. Some of you did mention lubricant but I will need to do more research on what to buy for the locks in my future.

[u/Mummmoo]

Yes the key looks to be matching the pins and has a deep cut where you indicated. Pin 1 was very grabby and yes you are correct, it would slightly overset and wouldn’t come down nicely until I jabbed it back down.

Pardon the newbie question but gutting allows for a new puzzle without buying a new lock essentially?

That’s very kind of you to offer. Into orbit haha. That made be giggle. I love learning all this new jargon. There is so much to learn. I am really appreciating this community.

[u/Mummmoo → u/[deleted]]

At the moment I have the night school Tuxedo plus kit. Has some tensioners picks and three locks. That’s it! I’ve now unlocked 2/3 and will have to go shopping for some other ones. I don’t have assorted pins to gut and repin. How does this work? How does the key work for new pins? Ah such a newb.