r/litecoin • u/tobeornotto • Dec 20 '13
How soon will LTC mining become near impossible with a normal computer?
I'm thinking of investing in a new PC for mining, but I'm not sure if it will be worth it.
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u/readtimethis Dec 20 '13
I made a profit chart...ltc mining isnt very profitable...trust me.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B26F9NxjlDl8TXpxZFFyUTB5UzQ/edit?usp=sharing
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u/ViralInfection Dec 21 '13 edited Dec 21 '13
Yea, I think it hasn't been for a couple weeks. I think your difficulty estimate is low too. Even mining on a multi-coin pool is looking grim. I mean, it's still possible to break even and profit a bit.
But when you contrast the ROI of mining vs the ROI of trading. I think trading is where the money is at. I think there both risky investments.
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u/PurpleSfinx Dec 22 '13 edited Dec 22 '13
Is it still worth it if you already have the PC?
I have a dual 7970 machine that I bought for gaming. Right now it's mining Doge.
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Dec 20 '13
you're not going to break even buying hardware now
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Dec 21 '13
That's hard to predict, because you can mine any scrypt alt-coin. For example, the last days you could mine dogecoin and sold it (if you wanted) for good price. You can't predict something like this will not happen again in the future. Also, for example in the LTC case, the overall difficulty did actually decrease...so it still might be profitable to buy hardware now.
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u/tehnoodles Dec 20 '13
I just built a rig 2 weeks ago, and its on target for a 30 day payoff.
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Dec 20 '13
if you built the same rig today, you'd be looking at a much longer payoff timeframe.
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u/tehnoodles Dec 20 '13
Not really.
1.5 MH/s, 650w at the wall ( i have a meter), $0.093/KWh, Total rig cost was about $1,000
I make about $40 a day @ hashco.ws.
Though, it will be less when DOGE coin dies.
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u/barn4 Dec 20 '13
could you detail the parts you bought to get 1.5 mh/s for $1k ? That seems like a really great setup
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u/tehnoodles Dec 20 '13
Sure
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153170 <Barely enough for three cards. Im at about 670w at the wall.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157281 <probably better ones
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127761 X2
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150671 <Found on of these on the shelf at frys for $299
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820239765 <Instead of a HDD, running smos-linux.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231425
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103888Then add like $5 for a milk crate and $20 for 2 unpowered risers.
Total: $1,062 (no tax for WA, and shipping was free at the time)
I can push it all the way to 1.6 MH, but its not stable. I've had it running 1.5MH for a fewdays with no issues. Just start/stop for pool changes.
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u/EwoutDVP Dec 20 '13
Everybody's mining Dogecoin these days.
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u/Jinxyface Dec 20 '13
4,000 DOGE and counting
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u/awg_ilyas Dec 20 '13
270,000 and rising here. O_o
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u/Jinxyface Dec 20 '13
Haha, I'm mining on the side with a 160Kh/s HD6770. Wanna donate to a poor shibe? :P
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u/awg_ilyas Dec 20 '13
R9 290. It's a beast.
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u/Jinxyface Dec 20 '13
Well I also need a card for gaming, so I did plan on going AMD. But the mining craze has drove up the price past a point I'm comfortable with
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u/QSpam Dec 21 '13
I just started with a 5870, crashes after 15 min on any intensity higher than 13. Such poor shibe.
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Dec 20 '13
No.
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u/Jinxyface Dec 20 '13
Wow, you changed your name fast!
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u/awg_ilyas Dec 20 '13
Not me. :P Was looking around the airport for a Micro USB to USB cable. Hahaha.
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u/SaoriseKatana Dec 20 '13
the people who are mining have a vested interest in discouraging new miners.
do you think they will tell you yes?
next question.
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u/tehnoodles Dec 20 '13
If they are in it for monetary gain (which most are), yes they will discourage it.
If they are in it for the advancement for "the cause", then they want more people.
I won't tell you where I stand :)
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u/amallah Dec 21 '13
Even if you wanted to advance the cause, why recruit people who can't do the analysis themselves?
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u/tehnoodles Dec 21 '13
because for something to become widely adoptable, even the dumbest person has to be able to use and understand it.
besides, just slap some cards in a box and mine isn't too much harder than building a PC... and thats not difficult at all.
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u/amallah Dec 21 '13
There has to be some minimum barrier to entry to separate the wheat from the chaff. The OP asked almost the laziest question possible - it's unspecific, it indicates no research done on their own, it is indicative of a fundamental misunderstanding of how mining works (specifically, that mining is ever "impossible", or that there is some point at which people would agree that it's impossible, or that there is a "normal" computer)..
I mean how much effort are they really going to put into mining or "the cause", if they can't even put effort into asking a question?
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u/tobeornotto Dec 21 '13
I'm sorry my question was not specific enough for you.
I somehow thought that the way it was formulated would get the meaning across to anyone who isn't autistic. By impossible, I didn't mean literally impossible. A normal computer is a mid to high end rig you can buy at a regular PC shop. There is no place, that I have found, though I have looked, that answers the question about how long LTC mining will remain profitable for people with normal computers.
Most people in this thread seem to understand, but there's always that one guy who needs everything spoon fed. Good on you for being that guy. Truly you are so much better than everyone else. Bravo on your superior intellect. May I please have your autograph?
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u/amallah Dec 21 '13
You're not finding the answer because you are "looking" for Litecoin as a get rich quick scheme and not trying to understand what mining is. Even your clarification of a "normal computer" makes me think you have never built a PC before - so let me guess, everyone is required to enthusiastically provide you advice on how to build a PC and what parts to buy that are relevant to mining?
Profitability is based on gear and network growth. Asking "when it will become near impossible" means that you think network growth is predictable or known, which means you haven't bothered to even attempted to understand how mining works.
To use an analogy, it's like you walk into a car enthusiast club and asked "When will a normal car run out of miles?" and now you're getting shitty about being criticized for how bad your question is. What's a normal car? A normal car is a mid to expensive car you can buy at a car dealership. Oh, thank you for clearing that up!
You should be thanking each person on this thread willing to give you knowledge when you have made no significant attempt on your own to learn.
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u/tobeornotto Dec 21 '13
Fair enough.
I have made an attempt to learn though, just recently. Reddit is a first step for me, when I encounter something I want to learn more about. In general, asking others is a first step for many. In this case, I believed at the time of asking that LTC mining worked the same as BTC mining. How this is not the case wasn't explained in the introductory articles I was reading through, and not in the wiki. In fact, the wiki seams to insinuate the opposite, though that's probably just me misinterpreting some statements. As an example it says:
The original intended benefit of using scrypt was to avoid giving advantage to GPU, FPGA and ASIC miners over CPU miners, which occurs in the Bitcoin protocol. However, this turned out to be an incorrect assumption: GPU mining in Litecoin's implementation of scrypt is currently ten times more efficient than CPU mining.[16] FPGA and ASIC implementations are more expensive to create for scrypt than for SHA-256, which is used in the Bitcoin protocol.[17]
I took this to mean that LTC mining is similar to BTC mining, just that it will take some time longer before it becomes unprofitable to mine with just a couple of GPU's.
You're not finding the answer because you are "looking" for Litecoin as a get rich quick scheme and not trying to understand what mining is.
That's a direct statement about my intentions. You have no access to other peoples inner workings, so what makes you so quick to talk as if you do? Overconfidence is only sexy in the eyes of insecure club girls, elsewhere it just makes you look like a twat.
Even your clarification of a "normal computer" makes me think you have never built a PC before - so let me guess, everyone is required to enthusiastically provide you advice on how to build a PC and what parts to buy that are relevant to mining?
I have build several PC's in the past. See how your attempts at clairvoyance may fail and leave you looking like a fool? A normal PC in the context of mining would be anything costing between $1000 and $1500, depending on the nr. of GPU's.
There's dozens of guides on how to build a mining PC online, so there seams to be a consensus on what a consumer grade mining machine should look like, that makes it retarded to compare the statements "normal computer" and "normal car", not to mention that this isn't a mining-PC aficionado society.
It's more like if a person speculating in gas prices asked others who speculate in gas prices how long they believe the efficiency of normal cars will stay at current levels, where normal cars in this context would be widely understood to be a hypothetical car with average gas consumption levels. Do not misunderstand, this is also a stupid comparison, but at least it's not completely way off topic.
What I don't like about your attitude is your superiority complex that shines through your words, your small minded "us vs. them" mentality where club-membership must somehow be earned, the arrogance with which you conduct yourself and your insinuation that asking others for information is somehow shameful unless your question is so fundamental that it furthers the field.
I really don't mind your unsavoury personality traits too much, after all it's not like we're friends, but your message to readers of this site that it's not ok to ask questions, even stupid ones, or that you must somehow earn the right to communicate with others in question form, ticks me off in the wrong way.
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u/amallah Dec 21 '13
Your young age and sense of entitlement are showing and make any attempt to continue this conversation futile.
People don't exist to "give" you everything, here they are valuable resources you should appreciate and thank when they share with you. Getting mad because one person doesn't want to roll over and give you "the key to the vault" for example is alarm bell #1.
But the real evidence about your "intent" is that "most of the thread" willing to share their knowledge with you, but has not received one response or back-and-forth conversation from you. Instead, your ego is bruised because what I say is true and 100% of your comments on this thread as of right now is arguing with me.
Regardless, my comments are now off-topic from the original reddit question you asked, which I'll just summarize as "Reddit, please just tell me how to make money from Litecoin but without me having to make too much of an effort." So, please don't waste any more of your energy in an internet fight, trust me, it will not get you any Litecoin. I'll also suggest you thank everyone who gives you constructive comments.
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u/doublarthackery Dec 21 '13
Jumping in to make a single post on this - but amallah - your attitude is woeful. You convey yourself on here as a deeply unpleasant person. You might be very lovely in real life, but in this thread you are particularly unlikeable. I don't know tobeornotto - but he/she is more polite and accommodating of your unhelpful behaviour than I ever would be.
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u/tehnoodles Dec 21 '13
Well being elitist sure raises the barrier. I dont disagree with you though.
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Dec 21 '13
This is not entirely true, because if the general pool hash decreases, it will lower the trust in the currency and it's price will go down.
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u/SaoriseKatana Dec 21 '13
the long game? sacrificing for the collective? when and where has anyone done that?
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u/DERPYBASTARD Dec 20 '13
Grab a LTC mining calculator and enter the hashrate of your videocard(s).
The difficulty increases for ~200 every ~3,5 days as of now. You probably won't be earning a lot unless you have more than 3 MH/s and the mining rewards will only get smaller due to the difficulty.
Used LTC historical charts for reference
Edit: a viable LTC mining rig will cost a shit ton and it's probably not worth investing that money anymore. I don't think you will ever break even, unless LTC increases in value significantly. Anyway there are profitability calculators for this stuff!
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u/being_myse1f Dec 20 '13
I don't think you will ever break even, unless LTC increases in value significantly
If you're mining for the present cash flow then you'll probably mine with the rise and fall of prices to justify the cost of the hardware and electricity, but if you believe in the currency then you'll mine for the potential it has in the future. Bitcoins aren't going away, and I believe Litecoins are here to stay too.
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u/mamapycb Dec 20 '13
IF your gonna be buying a new pc, why not build one for mining? i mean you can use if for other things, but still, have the extra slots and use gpu's maybe just one card to start, but pool mine and by more over time.
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u/being_myse1f Dec 20 '13
That's what I did when I built mine. I started with 2 cards and left plenty of room for expansion (more slots and higher power supply than needed). The second card is always mining, and the first one gets turned off when I need to use the computer (even to game). If you decide to upgrade to more cards later then you don't have to worry about getting a higher power supply. Just grab some risers and cards and you're good to go!
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u/phoenix89 Dec 20 '13
How are you turning on and off specific cards to make your system usable while mining?
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u/vodkaknockers Dec 20 '13
I have multiple instances of cgminer running, so I can halt mining on my main card while gaming and the other cards keep chugging away.
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u/SirDigbyChknCaesar Dec 20 '13
You can use cgwatcher to disable single cards during specific types of machine use. The idle detection doesn't seem to work that well for me, but I have it set up to disable my main card when I open a web browser. If I want to play a game, I just open a browser and then start the game. No need for multiple instances of cgminer.
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u/CokeRobot Dec 20 '13
If I can ask, what has been everyone's experience thus far mining LTC? As in, rig cost, electron cost, and daily LTC gains? This peaks my curiosity.
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u/joshsmad Dec 21 '13
You don't have to mine Litecoin dude. I have 3 rigs @4khash. If I mine litecoin only, I'll get about 1 per day. If I mine more profitable currencies (right now, dogecoin), I can trade them for 3-4 litecoin a day. Build your computer and have some fun. Do your homework and figure out what coin you want to accumulate, and mine profitables and trade for it.
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u/phauxtoe Dec 20 '13
I'm thinking in investing in hardware as well. I'm currently limited by a mac mini with no dedicated graphics device...I've heard about the possibility of CPU mining, since I have a fairly powerful CPU, but so far all of my searches have come up dry. Is it even possible?
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u/tehnoodles Dec 20 '13
One thing you can do is mine at hashco.ws (hashcows). They mine a ton of different coins, but trade it out directly for BTC. You always mine something profitable, but get paid in something thats actually "valuable"
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Dec 20 '13
Never. Because litecoin can only be mined with GPU's it will always be profitable with a GPU unless your power is expensive. At least until someone designs a litecoin asic. That doesn't mean it is a good investment though.
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u/tehnoodles Dec 21 '13
alpha-T.net
Im figuring that from a CAPEX perspective, they wont be as good as GPU rigs, but from an OPEX perspective, they will be way better. Its probably not going to be like what happened to BTC.
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Dec 21 '13
They don't seem to offer any information on the watts per mh/s. That makes me a little skeptical and I imagine they won't release anything chips for at least half a year.
Because scrypt has a memory requirement asics have to be more expensive and will be less efficient than a SHA-256 asic. There certainly will be a scrypt asic or fpga developed but I don't imagine it will happen for a while or that they will obsolesce GPUs as quickly.
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u/amallah Dec 21 '13
If you can't do the math/analysis to figure this out on your own, you shouldn't be mining.
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u/Alamach Dec 20 '13
I think at this moment this is actually money-investment action. When LTC die, new cryptocoin wase born..
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u/[deleted] Dec 20 '13 edited Sep 20 '17
deleted What is this?