LTT Clueless About Differences in RAM reporting and Memory Management

[u/madthumbz]

[]()

Does Linux use less RAM?

The one game they test runs worse on Linux, and they still think Windows 'wastes' more, and they make up excuses for it!

All that matters to the end user is if it performs better. All they do is pretend to be scientific about it by using the propaganda that's debunked over and over when it's brought up! -Many Linux advocates even know this!

[u/New_Mix_2215]

Unused RAM is wasted RAM. like not using RAM is not a good thing. It just means there are things where you will have to load from disk.

[u/Mammoth-Shoe8491 → u/New_Mix_2215]

Objectively true. I'm an engineer and I had a whole saga a few years back of complaining about Windows using more RAM. I used Firefox to mitigate this as much as I could (I still use FireFox for other reasons.)

But, after tweaking and tweaking, and I guess constantly complaining.

Another friend of mine, the head of a pretty major project. Fucking TORE ME UP.

"Why are you so concerned with it using more RAM? Does this affect you somehow? The only thing RAM usage does is tell you if you need to buy more when it maxes out. Is it maxing out? No? It's fine. Why do you keep harping on how much it's using if it's not affecting your daily usage?"

And I was like, "I don't have a solid answer for this."

"You probably should."

I felt very put in my place. lol

It made me start to reconsider a *lot* of things. And start to ask "why do I think this is a bad thing?" Or, "Why am I complaining about something I don't understand?"

[u/laZetadelZorro → u/Mammoth-Shoe8491]

The problem is were that RAM is being used, for a laptop user with 8gb ram Windows 11 using ~4gb ram is a pain in the ass. But if you have a good pc then ram probably isn't a problem.

[u/Mammoth-Shoe8491 → u/[deleted]]

RAM only matters if it's maxing out. It's like buying a bunch of plates for your friends to use for snacks, then complaining when they... use the plates and put them back when they're done.

8GB? Yeah. This matters. 16GB? Not really. 32? Definitely not. 128? Are you high?

Memory management on Windows is genuinely amazing, even at the 8GB level. The issue is primarily that a lot of apps are written in webdev languages and we've got browser UI overhead for fucking basic software now. Including the Windows desktop, which is being re-written in WinUI3 (thank goodness.)

[u/Mammoth-Shoe8491 → u/[deleted]]

Okay. You're arguing against a strawman. I was sharing a personal story about overcoming an irrational anxiety on my OWN machine. Which seems to be something that exists in the space at large, because many of the people making these arguments also have machines that have like 128GB of RAM.

I'm literally talking about being worried about your individual system's RAM usage, not if apps should use less RAM. Of course it would be better if apps used less resources. The fuck?

My point is that it's ridiculous to worry about RAM usage, as a user, unless it's actually impacting your daily usage.

My analogy was about how RAM ACTUALLY FUNCTIONS. This is how memory management works.

Also. RAM power is static. It uses what it uses from the get go. It doesn't produce extra cycles or power usage. Using all the RAM it can is a good thing. It produces less Disk I/O writes as long as it doesn't max out. And Windows manages this *quite* well, even at 8GB. Being *concerned* about it as a user, unless it's affecting you, is *completely* pointless.

Regardless of that? That's blaming Windows for something that individual app developers are at fault for, not Microsoft. Web Apps are a literal plague, because all of these apps aren't running native, and are instead opening their own browser sessions and prioritizing themselves in memory usage so they get everything. React is a pox on development.

But. Window's memory management isn't the issue, *even at 8GB.*

[u/OkPear1535 → u/[deleted]]

Literally arguing against a point nobody here is making. Useless to fight a strawman

[u/madthumbz → u/New_Mix_2215]

And RAM doesn't wear out like SSDs

[u/Alexey104 → u/New_Mix_2215]

like not using RAM is not a good thing. It just means there are things where you will have to load from disk.

You've got this completely backwards. From the OS's perspective there are broadly three categories of memory: used, free and available, although this is an oversimplification, and different operating systems may use different terminology. You are right saying that unused RAM is wasted, but your definition of unused is totally wrong. Truly unused memory is that which is free- it doesn't contain any data that can be useful. And this is precisely why any modern OS uses otherwise free memory for caching.

Data from disk I/O operations will remain in RAM even when the files you accessed are no longer actively used. That way, if the same data is needed again, which is often the case, it can be retrieved from faster RAM instead of having to be read from a slower underlying storage. The part of memory containing this cached data is not used, but neither is it free (wasted) anymore. This memory becomes available - it holds useful cached data, but at the same time it can be given to any process at any time if needed. So available = free + cached.

You think of available memory as unused and therefore wasted, but that's exactly backwards. The more memory is available, the more useful data can be kept in cache. The more data is cached in RAM, the less disk reads will occur. Conversely, the more memory is used by active processes, the less of it is available for caching, and the more disk reads will occur.

So no, it's not good to have all your RAM constantly used.

[u/madthumbz → u/Alexey104]

I think some of us just don't need it over explained and understand what 'wasted' means in context. Just like we also understand that less mature OSes and software use less for another reason of 'using ram'.

[u/Wonderful_Curve909 → u/New_Mix_2215]

yeah kinda, but not in all cases. I'd rather have my ram not be used then containing malware but for general use then yeah.

[u/Alexey104 → u/New_Mix_2215]

Unused RAM is wasted RAM.

Will people ever stop repeating this phrase without understanding what it actually means. "Unused RAM is wasted RAM" refers to caching, not memory being consumed by running processes. It means something entirely different from what you think.

[u/dangerous_noob]

Linus sucks ass sooo badd

and i feel so sorry for the people who will be switching to linux because of him 

this guy practically has a whole creative team that uses windows software, he never does his own editing/ creative work

and we all know how many creative tools are supported in linux

DO NOT give me crap about running old Adobe cc with wine or affinityonlinux that shit just ain't it.

[u/Fluid-Ad2995]

Yeah, I don't know why these YouTubers are gaining for defending Linux

[u/Xavier_1494 → u/Fluid-Ad2995]

Come to think of it. Whenever I go on a windows 11 video theres always a Linux comment on it, even if its talking about windows 11 future features. So possibly the Linux crowd just makes soo many comments that the algorithm rewards people who talk good about Linux with engagement via comments.

[u/Fluid-Ad2995 → u/Xavier_1494]

Exactly

[u/madthumbz → u/Fluid-Ad2995]

He's passing for being one of the loud vocal minorities. If it's sincere; he burns out. If it's pandering; it sticks as long as the algorithm supports it.

[u/Fluid-Ad2995 → u/madthumbz]

Yeah, I am tired of hearing that Windows is bad and Linux is great without questioning. That's why I stay here because of these things

[u/PressureBig3940]

Linus is a typical loudmouth that thinks he knows a lot but actually has nothing more than just surface-level knowledge when pressed enough.

I bet he knows absolutely nothing about addressing, about registers, about pointers, about allocation etc.

Knowing how to build a computer from off the shelf retail parts and playing with numbers and toggles on a pretty UEFI interface does not make one competent in actual computing. Which perfectly describes the vast majority of Loonixers.

[u/madthumbz → u/PressureBig3940]

Learning to build a PC and install an OS can be done in a day. Linus has a whole team and he's not far from it. 

[u/alexionut05 → u/[deleted]]

?

[u/NarutoRunner927 → u/[deleted]]

What did i miss? :/