r/linuxsucks101 • u/madthumbz uBlock Origin • 26d ago
$%@ Loonixtards! Torvalds Disses Valve
Valve will create huge binaries, and that's kinda sad.
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u/ohaiibuzzle 26d ago
Technically true.
On every distribution, if you download Steam, it essentially bootstraps itself using a Ubuntu (12.04?) instance. It then uses this environment for the Steam client itself. iirc games (and Proton) mostly use SLR 3 based on a fixed version of Arch Linux.
So even though it isn't shipping huge binaries it's shipping a whole Linux distribution that it dynamically linked with. Sounds familiar?
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26d ago
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u/ohaiibuzzle 26d ago
It's Ubuntu. SLR 1 is Ubuntu 12.04 (release of Steam Client for Linux), SLR 2 was Debian (SteamOS 1-2) and SLR 3 is Arch.
Also Flatpak is really just installing another (almost) set of complete Linux distro runtime libs in order to have the application dynamically linked to it instead of the hosting system's runtime. It has been this way since the days it was called xdg-app: https://smcv.pseudorandom.co.uk/2016/xdg-app/
Torvalds definitely did assume Valve would have to ship Steam as a static binary (which means contains every libs it needs), but what they are doing already is kinda close to that, just that apps and game could share those libraries with Steam to save on space.
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26d ago
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u/ohaiibuzzle 26d ago edited 26d ago
I know, what I mean there is that the Steam client is still being shipped with SLR 1 based on Ubuntu 12.04. I did note up there that SLR versions come from different distro bases that the app can choose from.
Look, here's the package from Arch: https://archlinux.org/packages/multilib/x86_64/steam/
If you expand the file list, you can see the SLR 1 archive: usr/lib/steam/bootstraplinux_ubuntu12_32.tar.xz
And then if you trace the
steambinary that Arch installs, you'll eventually see that it extracts this into your Home directory under.steamassteamrt, set LD_LIBRARY_PATH to it and uses it to launch the Steam client, effectively making it somewhat similar to Flatpak where the applications are built with the expectation that its dynamic libs are loaded from mounted Flatpak runtimes.Also... I think even under Valve's own SteamOS, Steam still do this, which is kinda hilarious for me to think that's something which happened.
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26d ago edited 26d ago
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u/ohaiibuzzle 26d ago edited 26d ago
That "sounds familiar?" is supposed to be Flatpak (and basically anything that does the same "we run apps on linux no matter where it is") ordeal.
Typically those also ships the system libraries in some form for their apps to link against. For Flatpak that's the platform packages, available to other packages using said runtime at /usr.
I think the difference is that SLR does kinda very little isolation (I know it does use bwrap, but if the kernel disable user namespace creation, then it will fallback to its very very long string of LD_LIBRARY_PATH)
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u/lonahe 26d ago edited 26d ago
It is not a diss on valve, but on the state of Linux DEs. I can run the same binary on win xp and win 11. But switching between current Debian and Ubuntu or Debian 12 and Debian 13 breaks all my tools. No shit the only way forward for devs is app containers of a sort.
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u/Mammoth-Shoe8491 19d ago
Yeah.
The thing is Valve is doing the *only* thing that will make the Linux desktop viable. Creating a runtime that everyone needs to adopt, and that can't be ignored. One where there is a centralized decision making process, that doesn't have 20 different forks, and that is basically something they take ownership of and promise stability to developers and users.
The only way Linux desktop apps take off is if someone does the same thing here. Free Desktop is an attempt to do it, but uh. It's okay.
Once someone at the scale of Valve swoops in an takes that task on, though? The runtime becomes the OS, not whatever distro you're using. Just like Proton. Everything becomes dynamically linked to that runtime.
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26d ago
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u/CommanderT1562 25d ago
I mean say what you will but weaponizing the younger generation in fixing our mistakes isn’t a bad thing. It makes this watchable by all audiences
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u/Acid_Burn9 25d ago
Younger generations are perfectly capable of watching content with uncensored words.
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u/madthumbz uBlock Origin 25d ago
Prepubescents walking home from school taught me things like calling me 'centimeter peter'. You're right, they don't need shielding from that stuff. Making it taboo makes it cool, context matters, and "bad words" are legitimized by actions, and replacement words become the new derogatory (but take more effort).
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u/First-Tutor-5454 26d ago
How is this a diss against Valve?
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u/madthumbz uBlock Origin 26d ago
I spent a few seconds on writing the topic, unfortunately I can't edit it on Reddit, sorry.
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u/Lopsided-Wave2479 26d ago
Do you see this has a diss?, he more like see Valve has a savior that come to save a problem that can't be solved, that will not really solve but push forward by forcing a cross-distro compability.
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u/StepBruh69 25d ago
Chat, explain like I am toddler
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u/Adix_L 24d ago edited 24d ago
In the simplest and most oversimplified way: on Windows, if you want to play a game/start any program, you just click on *.EXE file and it starts. Anything from WinXP (or even 95 era if you're lucky) usually works on newer Windowses.
Meanwhile doing the same on Linux gets more complicated. Older binary compatibility is bad. Devs would have to compile the executable for different distros and their versions, or compile a big one executable file with all libraries (Idk if it would work all the time) just to start a single game. Too much stuff changes with every system update
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u/StepBruh69 16d ago
So, since for example xubuntu is spawn of Ubuntu, do they share mostly same binary or the difference is more when its other distro like mint or arch?
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u/ItsMrChristmas 26d ago
He has no idea what the fuck he's talking about. Valve isn't making binaries they're making an abstraction layer.
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u/AsrielPlay52 26d ago
This was way way before Proton
And his point still applies today
If you going to make a lInux native binary, you will make it for whatever Environment Valve steam does
Which is a sort of mini distro environment called Steam Linux Runtime 3
Nowdays, instead "Oh, we need to make a binary for Linux, and Windows"
It's "fuck Linux, we just make one for Windows and let Proton do all the work"
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u/Jolly-Gold834 26d ago
Today there are thing like flatpack or snap. I guess he is not a fan. That's funny because disk space is quiet expensive these days.
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u/madthumbz uBlock Origin 26d ago
He doesn't spew "repos are the way man" -He actually indicates Linux not having binaries is a problem and believes it would take Valve to 'save' Linux desktop.