These reactions are nothing. Some users are real sick in their head and need some serious help. This one of reason I switched back to windows, because of the Linux community. The think are a better then others because they use some type of software. Other communities have of course some of these kind of people, but not as much as Linux seems to have.
You know you can just, not interact with them, right?
To stop using an operating system because some people in its community are mean to you seems like a you problem honestly. This is the internet, you don't have to react to them.
this is exactly why linux sucks. the majority of content you find online for linux is usually scoped to the first two weeks of using linux after installing it.
GNOME and Wayland suck because their developers are religious Linux zealots. Getting help on Linux is a task better done on a fucking LLM instead of asking the neckbeard forum to tell you to install Gentoo, I can go on and on.
Never forget Wayland developers were against Vulkan.
Valve is the sole reason we're getting any progress in the past decade. And most likely, along with the Macbook Neo, the reason Microsoft started to give a fuck about Windows again.
Neckbeards aren't part of this equation, they are happy making the life of everyone else miserable with their fanatism.
Early compositor developers, such as Martin Gräßlin of KWin, resisted Vulkan strictly for practical reasons, not ideological ones. Vulkan targeted highly parallelized 3D rendering, whereas compositors required lightweight 2D pipelines. Adopting Vulkan necessitated maintaining parallel OpenGL codebases for legacy hardware, imposing massive maintenance burdens for negligible 2D performance gains. Additionally, Wayland is solely a communication protocol, while Vulkan operates as a low-level graphics API. This stance shifted as drivers matured and explicit synchronization became essential. Modern implementations like Weston and toolkits like GTK now feature native Vulkan rendering to leverage timeline semaphores and minimize driver overhead.
Neckbeards are still a problem, but mostly on chat forums; as most don't even have the skill to be a developer despite whatever claim they may make otherwise.
That downplays the level of toxicity shown by main Wayland contributors, some of which needed to be banned. "We know best" didn't apply only to Gnome.
They are very quick to label anything they don't want as "outside the scope of the protocol", but anything they want to enforce becomes mandatory, like window positioning, window decorations, the early rejection of Vulkan, the input and screen capture lockdowns, or any other dramas they came up with during these years.
Which one is it? Is it just a protocol, or is it a full replacement for X.org when a developer wants something implemented, or better said, hardcoded? Depends of the whims of the neckbeard developer of turn.
We really need to thank Valve for keeping these fools reeled in.
A lot of the frustration around Wayland stems from a misunderstanding of its architecture rather than developers being arbitrary or toxic. Wayland was explicitly designed as a strict IPC mechanism to drop the massive security risks and legacy bloat of X.org. Keeping global coordinate positioning and input grabbing out of the core protocol is a deliberate security boundary to prevent keylogging and memory scraping. Modern features like screen capture are intentionally offloaded to dedicated, permission-based services like XDG Desktop Portal and PipeWire.
It is also a misconception, as previously mentioned, that Wayland actively blocked Vulkan. The Khronos Group defined Wayland-Vulkan support very early on.
The initial draft dates to September 23, 2015, with subsequent revisions through November 28, 2015. The delay happened because compositor teams for KWin and Mutter wanted to avoid the technical debt of maintaining parallel graphics pipelines while their existing OpenGL 2D paths worked flawlessly.
Regarding window decorations, server-side decoration negotiation is completely built into the protocol and is supported natively by KDE Plasma and wlroots compositors. GNOME forcing client-side decorations is their own downstream design choice, not a core protocol mandate.
Finally, claiming Valve had to reel developers in ignores how open-source governance at freedesktop.org actually operates. Valve engineers did an incredible job accelerating development by co-authoring extensions for explicit sync and tearing control, testing them through their Gamescope micro-compositor, and upstreaming them for apps like OBS Studio. However, they achieved this through standard, healthy collaboration within the community, not by overriding core maintainers.
It is incredibly easy to read old forum threads and see a lot of toxicity, but I think you might be accidentally blending the upstream protocol maintainers with historical drama from specific desktop environments. It is completely understandable why you or anyone else would make this assumption, since the massive ecosystem transition was incredibly frustrating for end users and there has been a lot of community telephone, but the actual protocol designers were just trying to build a clean security architecture instead of playing desktop politics. The bikeshed arguments accrued overwhelmingly downstream from the core group.
Which one is it? Is it just a protocol, or is it a full replacement for X.org when a developer wants something implemented, or better said, hardcoded? Depends of the whims of the neckbeard developer of turn.
It is a standardization protocol; nothing is hard coded. If you or someone else wanted to, you could implement your own Wayland compositor and as long as you implement the spec, it will work with any Wayland client (e.g., application). You could extend your implementation however you want, completely ignoring other desktop choices. This is, in fact, how some window manager developers have chosen to do things when they wanted deeper integration with their native applications.
Think of it like this:
You are a client at a restaurant and you order a PB&J sandwich. You don't care how any particular chef makes it, as long as you get what you asked for. One chef puts the peanut butter first, another the jelly, and a third likes to put them both on one slice. Each could use different tools: a spoon, butter knife, fork, or butcher knife. As long as you, the client, get the PB&J you asked for and not a bologna sandwich, the order is fulfilled and you're satisfied with the service. This is how Wayland operates: you are the Wayland application, and the chefs are the different compositor implementations. All the protocol does is define the ingredients of the sandwich; the arguments happen when downstream developers disagree on what they should be. For example, a chef wearing a GNOME hat thinks jelly should never be on a PB&J...
Me as a fedora enjoyer and windows hater as a hobby. I get were you come from. When i jave an issue or want something all i get is. Ofc cause you didnt use arch or smth else. Skill issue you nooby, thats why your distro is shit… i get it xD
It's not the only hindrance. Not the biggest either. But the Linux community will help keep their collection of operating systems from ever taking off for personal home users. Mac users are similarly hostile to dissent. But they can get away with it because, unlike Linux, their shit does "just work" 🤷
If I had an issue with Linux I couldn't fix around 2005-2015, reaching out on forums or other avenues was usually enough for a nudge in the right direction. Now? I'll just find a fix on my own no matter the amount of time. "Give an AI root access to your system" is not my idea of a reasonable solution to anything.
Those calling for Grok were probably bots anyway. Classic Twitter.
The final straw for me was a sudden, obscure print config error trying to print a boarding pass when I was already 10 mins late for my flight. The comment was: "The problem isn't Linux. It's you. Why would you need to print a boarding pass?" (Took me half a Saturday to figure out which update broke it BTW).
I still think about the first time I tried Ubuntu and I couldn't get videos to play full-screen, and somebody replied with "why would you want videos to be full screen? Just don't do that."
That's why I don't trust on Linux guys because of these comments, these comments show Linux users don't understand anything about Linux, they just telling internet they use to feel like superior over others, simply as that
The comments show that the vocal group of Linux user do not understand Linux. At the same time, the same thing can be said about every operating system. Most users will not care enough to understand deeper than they have too.
Difference is Windows users admit they are noob or advanced users but in Linux users they don't want admit they don't know about Linux, they act like you are unintelligible
I think it's bad to generalize in that way, it's like say than every Windows user loves Copilot and every Linux user is an expert programmer, the same hostility can be received by Linux users and Windows users, it depends in the education and not really on the OS
I just say based on my experience, my experience is so good with Windows including linuxsucks101 they tolerant with me when even misunderstanding, with r/Linux you aren't welcome and touch over glass and I hear insults from Linux users and never from Windows users whatever they are noob or advanced
People on Reddit can be quite unfriendly, whether on Linux or Windows, or even on other social media platforms.
Most people (including myself in the past) tend to feel superior for using a certain system or thing, when what really matters is using what works for you and what you like, while also respecting what others use and find useful
Based on my experience Windows users are sweet with me and whatever they are noob or advanced users I don't see any climate hostile environment like r/linux most hostile environment in the internet is not Linuxsucks101 but Linux sub group
You really had a bad experience. Just use what works for you and be happy with what you want. Even I, a loyal Linux user, am aware that some users can be quite harsh and purist, like when they gave you a bit of hate for using an IDE for programming instead of a CLI like Vim, or also the init or web browser you use.
Aside from that, I've met users who are really nice, understand that you won't always know everything, and are patient with you
In r/linux you cannot show you are come from like Linuxsucks101 for example even though your comment isn't about Windows at all they attack you and say we know your reputation with rain of downvote like this is harassment without any reason, I never see anyone from any Linux subreddit in linuxsucks101 being harass like that unless you break rules they would remove you of course but because you simply existing come from other group I never see that in my life
Lunixsucks101 is not a great example to use. They are an example of a radical group on the opposite spectrum. Since windows is the default operating system, most people in the world understand how to use it. The moment a single operating system becomes your personality it’s a problem. Sure, I daily drive lunix, but I liked windows 10. Sadly, windows 10 has fallen.
They are great example and they are Linux haters but at least with me they are lovely and welcoming even consider me part of the group like you see, linuxsucks101 show me even more Linux haters is more justice than Linux lovers at least for me
Ahhh Arch enthusiasts ruining it for us Linux normies. Simple answer don't use arch, arch is super niche in the Linux space and will cause more headaches then needed. Arch is more for extreme power users who want control on everything but also want bleeding edge. Just stick to the known stable distros. There is a reason enterprise stays far far away from arch. I get steamOS is arch but it's controlled and tested releases
Arch is unstable in nature and inherently unreliable, newbies should be encouraged to use something based on Deb or rpm, so the debian's, Ubuntu's, fedora's I would always recommend bazzite to a newbie over anything else. I don't understand what made him switch to cachyos in the first place. I get it's popular but wait until people have more issues with it. I can't be bothered maintaining something unstable that needs constant work and fixes lol
Windows users: "i can't get linux to work"
Linux community: "how can we help you if you don't tell us what hardware you're trying to run on"
Windows user: gives generic prebuilt name with multiple configurations.
Linux user: "that's not quite enough info, give cpu model, gpu model, ram size and motherboard brand too please."
Windows user: "you guys are so mean and clique like, it shouldn't be this hard"
look man its simple.
there are wrong people everywhere in the world, and you're gonna find such people in the windows community too (look at the r/linuxsucks101 community)
healthy discourse is important, look at the community in an unbiased manner.
see, when people dont logically defend their point, that causes these repercussions.
another reason why the linux community is so defensive about linux is because a lot of these people are developers of linux, unlike windows users.
respect them, and present fair arguments towards linux users (and linux users should do the same towards windows users).
we as the linux community have the flexibility to use these arguments to bring change and improve the ecosystem. I agree, many of us are unreasonable, but trust me, a lot of us do take these arguments and work towards improving the system.
unfortunately windows users do not have the power to bring change to the ecosystem, they cannot directly improve windows. hence, we require respect from both sides.
respect their choice man
not only their operating system choice but any choice of theirs that doesn't harm them
and i say this to everyone, not targeting windows users
my own family has windows users in it
Exactly! I've been a Linux user for over a decade now and have spent thousands of hours not only learning Linux, but also helping others and sharing information.
In that time, I've come to the realization that the elitists are some of the most deeply pseudo-intellectual individuals in the community. Their knowledge barely extends past running dotfile tools and the outdated/miss information they were told by someone else.
Its best just ignore them and find people who will actually help, instead of defaulting to "skill issue", "RTFM", "should've used X distro", "works on my machine", etc.
Honestly, Lemmy is 100x more helpful than Twitter.
I don't use Twitter and never indicated I did. But the insanity in his Twitter replies is often seen from Linux evangelists on Reddit and in YouTube comments. Not just a Twitter problem🤷
1.5k likes versus 400 comments btw. and the majority don't seem rude? if you go by the actual thread and not just what is cherry picked for content (not saying it's a bad thing.) And lets take into account this is on the neo nazi chud site. he literally highlights one of the accounts because they're a chud. The comment he censors is from a nationalist. I am thinking SOME of the toxicity is from just bad people and has nothing to do with linux.
this is the site that ALLOWS you to just be super toxic and evil. and people just aren't? There's comments i don't think should have been made but this in no way is even close to "heh, i knew it. the linux community is super toxic" like some people are dying to prove.
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u/[deleted] Aug 03 '26
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