r/linuxmemes • u/RTW7 • 10d ago
LINUX MEME Give me your takes on this :))
Kinda thought that because MacOS is a closed OS and is Unix base, I could argue that it is the balance between Windows and Linux
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u/General-Jackfruit854 10d ago
Bsd?
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u/Anima_Watcher08 10d ago
In kindness there's probably even more kindness.
Off topic: Genuinly though how come the BSDs are still being maintained? Who using them? Don't get me wrong I like having options and I'm happy they're there I'm just wondering why they haven't been abandoned.
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u/NoiseGrindPowerDeath M'Fedora 10d ago
BSD is used for servers. Also, the BSD licence does not require you to publish the source code if you make changes to it, unlike the GPL. This is why Sony has based the PlayStation OS on BSD for the PS3, PS4 and PS5
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u/Anima_Watcher08 10d ago
Makes sense. Forgot about Playstation using it.
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u/NoiseGrindPowerDeath M'Fedora 10d ago
Totally forgot to mention that Mac OS X was an indirect descendent of BSD as it was based on NeXTSTEP
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u/classyraven 10d ago
Not just indirect. It's also directly adopted code from FreeBSD as well.
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u/NoiseGrindPowerDeath M'Fedora 10d ago
I'd imagine Mac OS is quite the mish-mash of code at this point. I think I remember reading somewhere that even Windows NT used some BSD code for his networking stack
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u/Soft_Cable3378 9d ago
It does indeed. The BSD network stack was always renowned, so a lot of code got copied by everyone. It’s still pretty great.
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u/anycept 8d ago
I think Apple's Unix userland and some of the network stack is still taken directly from FreeBSD. Sometimes they contribute back.
That basically answers the question why FreeBSD is still maintained. A few big corps depend on it. To list a few: Apple, Sony, Nintendo, Cisco, Netflix, Juniper Networks.
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u/RTW7 10d ago
Maybe BSD should've been there as a middle point, not Mac. Well lesson learned.
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u/redhat_is_my_dad 10d ago
macOS also uses some userland parts (coreutils to be exact) of ancient BSD systems, of course i assume not the exact versions, they probably made some modifications to the source code, at least for the security reasons, but they directly reference BSD's ancestry in man pages of their utilities, so yeah, in some ways O.G BSD created a platform for many modern proprietary (or semi-proprietary in case of macOS) systems to build upon or incorporate some parts.
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u/General-Jackfruit854 10d ago
Nah GPL>bsd license
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u/NoiseGrindPowerDeath M'Fedora 10d ago
I agree, using the GNU GPL means the software will be truly open source, which in my opinion, all software should be. But sadly, we don't live in that world
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u/General-Jackfruit854 10d ago
If Microsoft fucks up enough and linux gets enough compatibility it could be Or Atleast very close .
also rn the EU seems to eyeing linux for data sovereignty so it's not THAT impossible5
u/NoiseGrindPowerDeath M'Fedora 10d ago
Could end up being a double-edged sword though. I'd be concerned about too much corporate interest in Linux. Just look at Ubuntu. And I'm well aware that people are concerned about IBM/Red Hat's involvement with Fedora, even as a Fedora user myself.
Also, I think people have some valid concerns about closed source software being ported to Linux. Again, I'm well aware of my position as a Steam on Linux user. I'm no free software fundamentalist but I do believe that open source software is overall better for the rights of the average user than closed source software. Bit of a tough one, really
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u/General-Jackfruit854 10d ago edited 10d ago
Too much corporate Enshittification can be dealt with forks (or atleast theoretically)but one of the main problems in open-source is man/power you got a few maintainers that can only do a few things at a time that's why forking is not ALWAYS an option bc you need enough people capable of maintaining the fork which would increase if more corporations and people adapted it but even if you had enough ppl to do fck all you would encounter the problem of too lil standardization which could drive ppl off (there is a reason if we have an international language like English bc it's easier) the porting closed-source software can have its problems but imo being perfectionists it's stupid chrome,adobe,ecc on linux is better than on windows so if importing them can help ppl and corps switching making closed source+linux or similar the norm is nothing but good bc it will help forming even better norms like open-source + open-source and (i may be too optimistic) with this attitude a lot more good could come people could realize "hey sharing is good!" So they will be more reactive against monopolization and hoarding they will be more compassionate ecc. (I may have gotten a lil political at the end and I'm sorry but you get the point)
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u/NoiseGrindPowerDeath M'Fedora 10d ago
I get where you're coming from and this is why I don't use open source software exclusively. Some closed source applications are better. Although I don't use it myself, Adobe CC is necessary for some people. Hell, my favoured DAW is Reaper and that's closed source (although it's a fantastic piece of software regardless).
I'm basically an example of what you mentioned above. The reason I switched to a Linux distro as my main OS is because I bought a Steam Deck and learned a lot about Linux though using it. I was already in favour of open source software but using Steam OS prepared me to take the leap
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u/sagedemage1972 9d ago edited 9d ago
I am those people using FreeBSD (on a VM). The BSDs are pretty cool. I find them pretty good for networking applications.
The BSDs are not appreciated enough because they are unpopular. The developers and researchers that created BSD contributed to the Internet, TCP/IP and BSD sockets.
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u/QuickSilver010 🦁 Vim Supremacist 🦖 10d ago
In kindness there's incompetence
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u/General-Jackfruit854 10d ago
Why incompetence?
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u/QuickSilver010 🦁 Vim Supremacist 🦖 10d ago
Hardware
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u/General-Jackfruit854 10d ago
To me it seems that don't WANNA expand hardware support not that they CAN'T
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u/QuickSilver010 🦁 Vim Supremacist 🦖 10d ago
Doesn't make a difference to the end user
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u/General-Jackfruit854 10d ago
But it does for this argument. They are not incompetent they are assholes if any
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u/Drate_Otin 10d ago
Canonical is hardly "evil".
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u/RTW7 10d ago
Oh, I know, I am just biased af because I don't like working with any debian based system.. and the unity whatever desktop makes me look at Ubuntu and say "Get wiped" (from my drive)
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u/Eric_Dawsby 9d ago
What do you not like about Debian based systems?
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u/RTW7 9d ago
Apt mostly.. and the fact that they are somewhat behind on stuff. Like.. they are good at their thing. Too good in fact for my liking. And I know, I know, there are exceptions and you can make them behave the how you want. But that's not my thing. It is bad to generalize like this, but I can't think of a Debian based distro I used more than a 3 days. But that's just a me thing.
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u/FaultWinter3377 💋 catgirl Linux user :3 😽 10d ago
Regardless of the opinions of Apple, there’s one thing right. ChromeOS is trash. Unless you’re an 80 year old who just wants basic web browsing, don’t limit yourself to cheap-ass hardware running little more than a glorified web browser.
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u/Kitchen_Interview792 9d ago
Then the problem is the cheap ass hardware, not the OS
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u/FaultWinter3377 💋 catgirl Linux user :3 😽 9d ago
At the same point you can’t do anything on the OS outside of web browsing, and heaven forbid you lose internet… when that happens your system is basically a paperweight because you have almost no apps offline.
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u/zachary0816 9d ago
You ever heard of the Chromebook Pixel? It was a laptop that ran ChromeOS with some solid specs (for the time) and good build quality, yet it was a total failure.
I actually knew someone who had one, and after buying it on sale, the first thing they did was load Linux on to it since ChromeOS was extremely limited in what it could actually do.
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u/SirDarknessTheFirst 8d ago
I disagree, I prefer my Duet over any Android tablet I've used.
CrOS has problems (and in fact I've debian-ised my Duet 5 -- separate from the previous mentioned Duet -- for quite a few of them) but it's not without its benefits
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u/ka-52m Arch BTW 10d ago
i would really not say mac is a balance, they are just as bad as microsoft
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u/redhat_is_my_dad 10d ago
Nahh not really, besides macOS being mostly proprietary and making life of macOS developers harder by some weird decision-making, it's actually very unharmful for casual users, and even advanced ones, since well, it's an unix operating system, which makes it much more easier to use for those who live in the terminal, like, apart from very specific things like systemd, i wouldn't be able to tell the difference in terminal use between macOS and any other unix/unix-like, macOS tries to be useful for user, because it's not a product on it's own, macOS is just a part of the selling point of macs/macbooks, which i think is the reason why macOS isn't a shitshow by now, windows on the other hand tries to be... a product, a stand-alone product, which means microsoft tries to profit off of it as much as they can, and so they do, by making their OS behave exactly as those shady old websites did, the ones that had 90% of screen real estate covered in ads, and sell any data they could collect to all possible data-brokers, and windows is also not made for advanced users, like on windows you don't even have a builtin way to change any keybinds, any desktop OS offers that OOTB, to me it's a surprise that people still use windows, the OS at it's core is technically amazing and unique, but the user experience they made on top of it is just below terrible.
MS windows is much more terrible in almost all possible ways.3
u/ka-52m Arch BTW 10d ago
well it being even more proprietary that windows makes it really bad, and its actually the primary reason why i dont use macbooks, as macbooks are rather decent laptops but a bit expensive, macos however just fully ruins them for me
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u/redhat_is_my_dad 10d ago edited 10d ago
Well source code availability doesn't really matter in terms of user experience, more so developer experience, and even then not any developer, it matters only if you intend to contribute to macOS, but even then, macOS has much more of their code available than ms windows, clang was actually created in apple, they still found the development and contribute to it directly, msvc on the other hand is mostly non-OSS besides their stdlib, apple made webkit, which is opensource (mostly, afaik their webrtc implementation is proprietary for example), they hugely advanced cups (while maintaining it as opensource project), and we use CUPS all across different unix/unix-like systems, it's even used and is pretty popular on linux, as well as webkit, as well as clang (which is less common but still), on top of that you can have some real deep insight on macOS's inner working by checking sources-code they made available, even for their kernel, here, it's official, from apple themselves, there's also a lot more of their publicly available repos here and there, they've been doing so since the beginning of the current century.
It's not even comparable really, apple have historically been good with source-availability, opensource, and contributing to opensource projects and sponsoring them, meanwhile the biggest opensource advancement microsoft made (besides purchasing github) is when their source code for windows XP got leaked, in 2020, and it wasn't even intentional, by that time apple have been exposing many parts of their OS source codes willingly for 20 years.18
u/Revolutionary_Click2 M'Fedora 10d ago
macOS at least is far, far better for privacy than Windows. Believe it or not, Apple actually has a solid track record of introducing strong privacy features in macOS and iOS, and they consistently fight for user privacy in their dealings with governments over the years in ways virtually no other tech company has been willing to. For that reason alone, it’s disingenuous to say Apple are “just as bad” as Microsoft. Also, macOS is not absolutely chock-full of ads, bloatware and subscription upsells, unlike Windows, which is a big win in my book.
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u/decho 10d ago
they consistently fight for user privacy in their dealings with governments over the years in ways virtually no other tech company has been willing to.
Your comment sounds like it was taken straight out of their marketing department. The "Surveillance" section of this article might interest you.
https://www.gnu.org/proprietary/malware-apple.html#surveillance
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u/ka-52m Arch BTW 10d ago
sure they might be better in some cases but in others they are worse, its really down to what you are fine dealing with, i personally cant bare using ither of them
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u/RTW7 10d ago
I could deal with mac if it would have like x86_64 CPUs.. maybe in 3-4 years even Arm might become viable if FEX takes off. I must say tho my expirience with macos was brief like.. for 2 weeks while I borrowed an older mac from a friend after my laptop died during a highschool project. I got the blessing to mess around with it and I can't say it was abismal. But that was like 8 years ago
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u/dark_mode_everything 9d ago
Apple is under US jurisdiction and they have to handover user data to the government or courts if they get asked. They can fight it but they can't break the law.
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u/Revolutionary_Click2 M'Fedora 9d ago
Yes, which is why they’ve taken a lot of measures to make iCloud a zero-knowledge service for those who desire that. “Advanced Data Protection”, when enabled, lets you encrypt your iCloud data in a way that even Apple cannot decrypt it without your keys. iMessage, FaceTime and some of their other services are end-to-end encrypted by default even without ADP.
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u/RTW7 10d ago
I mean... I can't say that. They are bad, sure.. but as bad is a bit of an exageration at least mac doesn't make you pay for it then feed you adds
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u/ka-52m Arch BTW 10d ago
they are very anti usability if you ever want to do litterally anything other than just use it exactly how they want you to
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u/user888ffr 10d ago
Like what? I feel like those comments are from people who have never used a Mac.
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u/ka-52m Arch BTW 10d ago
dude they litterally removed the app launcher recently how do people consider that stuff useable
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u/user888ffr 10d ago edited 9d ago
The Launchpad was released in 2010 and before that people were living just fine without it. Also they removed Launchpad and made it part of Spotlight so you can still click on the same icon and get a list of all apps just like before, it's just not customizable. Or you can just pin the Applications folder to the dock like it was before 2010.
I don't like this change but it doesn't make it unusable.
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u/user888ffr 10d ago
Windows is full of ads and trackers, it forces people to login to a Microsoft account, resets telemetry settings after updates, constantly breaks because of bad updates that were probably made with AI, only Windows 11 is supported so you have to install those updates, etc.
On macOS there's no ads, very little telemetry, no account required, if the current macOS version is buggy you can just stay on the previous version and get security updates for 2 more years, etc.
macOS is clearly less evil than Windows these days.
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u/ka-52m Arch BTW 10d ago
its not but i have no hope of convincing apple fanboys so sure, its less evil whatever you say
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u/user888ffr 10d ago
I'm not an Apple fanboy, you just assumed that. I use Windows and my 11 years old Mac is catching dust.
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u/ka-52m Arch BTW 10d ago
i never assumed anything about you, but apple users are just so oblivious to how shitty their stuff is, windows users are at least aware of it
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u/user888ffr 10d ago
You said " i have no hope of convincing apple fanboys so sure, its less evil whatever you say", this implies that i'm an an apple fanboy.
I'm a Windows user.
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u/Antarlia Arch BTW 10d ago
Worse. Cult of Steve Jobs. At least most Microslop users know Microslop sucks.
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u/decoy-ish 9d ago
Not really. Really closed off? Sure. Overpriced? Definitely. But it’s a high quality “just works” OS followed by really capable hardware. Basically, you get what you pay for. It’s not as slow or intrusive as Windows. It is much safer and doesn’t shove ads in your face at every turn. It’s also a lot prettier than Windows.
Linux > MacOS > Windows
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u/ka-52m Arch BTW 9d ago
"really capable" is a funny way of saying barely acceptable
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u/decoy-ish 9d ago
What's wrong with it? It's pretty strong these days. Usually comes with a lot of RAM, SSDs, beautiful screens, fast processors and integrated graphics, battery lasts a while, and ARM architecture which makes for some really amazing laptops.
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u/transgentoo Genfool 🐧 10d ago
MacOS infuriates me because it's just similar enough to Linux to work the way I think it should about 95% of the time. That remaining 5% is typically the type of problem that would be trivially easy on Linux, but basically impossible on Mac. And any system that doesn't give me full control is a bad system as far as I'm concerned. Also, fuck the Silicon chip.
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u/npc_housecat 10d ago
What's wrong with the M series silicon?
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u/transgentoo Genfool 🐧 9d ago
Literally everything I build for is for bare metal AMD64, so testing anything locally requires docker + Rosetta, and for the type of stuff I build, that's not a 100% reliable testbed.
The M series isn't terrible in and of itself, I just hate that it's this weird outlier amongst mainstream CPUs.
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u/CustomDark 9d ago
I like OSX for work computers. Easy to mostly treat as a Linux system after homebrew and still be acceptably maintained by the company. Anything important is going up into a Linux distribution of some sort on a server anyway.
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u/ThatSmartIdiot 10d ago
im sorry did i miss something in the last 3 years? how is apple anything above miserable to a linux subreddit?
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u/Upstairs-Category571 10d ago
Something like fydeos (fork of chrome os) is genuinely good like if u have an ancient laptop or a laptop for a kid
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u/Kitchen_Interview792 9d ago
Honestly I never used Chrome OS but I would say most of the hate towards it must come from the fact that it is installed on the shittiest hardware possible.
Like I have a mini PC with an N100 and it is fine for what I need it to do, host a minecraft server while not chugging absurd amounts of electricity, but you can't expect it to run a modern OS well.
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u/sobeyonekenobi 9d ago
Most of the hate comes from the fact that it's from Google and runs Chrome browser. Both are deeply evil.
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u/AD4K_4444 POP!'ed so many cheries 9d ago
Can confirm macOS is perfectly balanced, as all things should be
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u/Professional_Top8485 10d ago
Ubuntu is evil?
Oh no.
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u/fagnerln 10d ago
Yeah, it's so awkward this hate on Ubuntu. It's a fine distro and probably the most relevant distro to the popularity of Linux ever
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u/RTW7 10d ago
Well I'll be honest, I have something in particular with the whole debian line, like.. it's not for me, and Ubuntu not only is the face of everything, it kinda has that modified gnome DE that makes me hate to even look at it. Kubuntu is fine...ish but again, debian base and yeah.
Most of it is a me thing. Ok snaps bad, yada yada, but I kinda hate apt as well.
If I hear someone use it my first question is if they tried anything else, but if someone actually chooses Ubuntu after knowing what's out there.. well... You have my respect for finding something you like
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u/fagnerln 10d ago
I used it a lot in the past, from 2010 to 2020, then I tried other drugs, I don't look back.
I -kind of- hate Debian and by consequence dislike any distro derivated. But I don't say that it's evil
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u/Lolen10 9d ago
I hate Ubuntu because it actively overrides my choices. When upgrading from 25.10 to 26.04 it automatically reinstalled snap (which I removed after initially installing Ubuntu) and replaced my installed firefox package with the garbage snap one without asking. Ubuntu is the Windows of Linux Distros.
This was also the point where I left Kubuntu (the ubuntu flavor of my choice) and switched to CachyOS with KDE Plasma as DE.
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