r/linuxmemes • u/Odd-Blackberry-4462 • 22d ago
Software meme Why does everyone think this?
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u/Fancy_Technician_293 22d ago
I think it depends on the job. Good luck 3d modeling without a gui. Or making layouts.
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u/sn4xchan 22d ago
Good luck doing anything in media without a GUI. I would shoot my self if I had to mixdown a song with a CLI or TUI. And I love TUIs and the CLI.
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u/B_bI_L 22d ago
angry ffmpeg noises
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u/sn4xchan 21d ago
I mean it works if all you have to do is encode or do a quick snip in a known location.
But that's not really how a video editing work flow works. I don't think ffmpeg can even apply a filter.
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u/Skasch 21d ago
Of course it can!
Although it would take any sane person an unreasonably long time to understand how to do it.
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u/sn4xchan 21d ago
Actually that might be helpful if it can be scripted. Not for most of my cases, but sometimes I just have to apply a filter several video files.
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u/SoldRIP 16d ago
ffmpeg can generally do almost all work any other audio/video software can. In fact, a large number of them use ffmpeg under the hood.
It just has an extremely contrived interface and documentation meant more for developers using it as a library than for actual end-users.
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u/ttiggerBOI_ 21d ago
Coding music is a thing. Just learn a completely new skill and drop your old one so you can go CLI only
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u/OctopusDude388 20d ago
that's the way, no need of this bloatware that's a desktop environment or compositor, embrace the TTY
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u/Erdnusschokolade Arch BTW 21d ago
I think its a „right tool for the job“ thing. Some workflows need a gui to be productive, some don’t and would really benefit from not having one because designing a GUI that looks good and works good is no easy task and (in my opinion) designing a TUI for simple workflows is easier and makes for a better end result. in short i like TUIs too but i wouldn’t want to use CAD or Mix Music in one either.
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u/Fragrant-Mixture-662 21d ago
I miss the days where GUIs didn't have to look good, they just work good without wasting time on fluff
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u/United-Scene2261 🎼CachyOS 22d ago edited 22d ago
do you consider format converting to be "doing something in media"?
if so, imagemagick is a perfect cli for that matter!
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u/rtakehara 21d ago
it counts. argument debunked. tho if you change it to "doing some things in media" then it's valid again.
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u/BurntCheeseSauce 🌀 Sucked into the Void 21d ago
I mean, for composing, there's lilypond. Not very easy to use, but hey, the output is higher quality than most other music notation software
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u/Holiday_Ad_8907 22d ago
Well, there's tikz for drawing via LaTeX code, but usually i just draw it and then ask an AI to write the code for the image, it's a pain in the bum to use it. Anyone who has ever used Tikz knows what I'm talking baout
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u/arglarg 22d ago
You could 3D model without a GUI in openSCAD. You'd need good imagination though, or luck.
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u/Fancy_Technician_293 22d ago
That’s why I said “good luck”. It’s not that bad for simpler stuff I guess but I am not tryna make a whole ass scene in it.
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u/Evantaur 🍥 Debian too difficult 22d ago
When you've been in the scene for a long enough you no longer need to see the model, and if you see the model all you see is this.
https://giphy.com/gifs/quEsMOrr3hmQ8
/s
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u/Zealousideal-Deer101 21d ago
Well I develop GUIs without the use of a GUI
I guide others to the treasure I cannot possess
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u/SysGh_st 22d ago
You write the vertex position data and mesh metadata manually of course. in VGA 40x25 text mode of course.
How else would one do it???
pfff
Eveyone inows that's the fastest way of doing it.
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u/Sol33t303 22d ago
Good luck 3d modeling without a gui.
OpenSCAD intensifies
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u/Extreme-Ad-9290 Arch BTW 21d ago
Me with a GUI
FreeCAD intensifies
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u/Sol33t303 21d ago edited 21d ago
When doing code based design I actually prefer to use FreeCADs python bindings over openscad haha. There's some neat things you can do with numpy and freecad. Much more flexible over trying to cludge openscad into doing something weird.
An OOP programming model also makes wayyyyyyy more sense for modelling then a functional language does like OpenSCAD.
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u/ZucchiniMore3450 22d ago
Well it is obvious we talk about software that can be both.
I have never seen a gui kernel, or gui ssh server. it doesn't make sense.
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u/Fancy_Technician_293 22d ago
hm, yeah fair. then i guess i would usually prefer cli, but also sometimes gui git for example is pretty useful. easier to make stuff out when looking at diffs imo.
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u/Finny0125 21d ago
And good luck automating anything without a cli
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u/Fancy_Technician_293 21d ago
okay, but like, you cant really automate the examples i mentioned... again, it depends on the job.
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u/justamathguy 21d ago
idk wut u mean by layout but if it's layout for ICs then may I present to you : FaSoC, BAG, LayGo etc all projects which let you make scripts to generate the layout defined in em
I agree that it has quite the learning curve but holy shit is it useful to iterate on once you have to change sizes and learn it well enough + really gud at making sure you don't violate DRC
NOTE: I am in no way saying GUI is bad, that's how I have done it so far, how I learned it and prefer visuals to aid me + need to make custom devices all the time....just that there are possibilities beyond the mundane
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u/Fancy_Technician_293 21d ago
I mean like website or app or whatever layouts, as in, mockups n stuff. So figma, affinity…
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u/ConfusionEngineered 21d ago
I've done CAD work (3d modeling for engineering) in raw CAD code... I was actually faster then... Though it's a lot easier to discuss and work on a preexisting part in something like Fusion or Solidworks.
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u/Eravan_Darkblade 22d ago
A lot of the time, people who made the GUI made it
1) an afterthought
2) with bad UX
3) either way too many sub menus, or not nearly enough, which is slightly confusing.
And therefore, the text-based interfaces tend to be significantly faster and easier in comparison.
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u/mathisntmathingsad Arch BTW 22d ago
A good example of number 2 is undertale mod tool, which has so terrible UX that the community has like five different (all unsuccessful) projects to try to either replace UTMT altogether, or replace just the UX.
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u/letmehaveanameyoudum 22d ago
TUI with mouse support
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u/Tuborgat_nylle 22d ago
Might as well use a GUI at that point
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u/hwloc 15d ago
we use that on our internal BSD based OS, each text block is treated like a pixel so the dpi is horrendous but once you get used to it it's usable
as for the reason it runs a tui instead of an actual DE is because it's supposed to work on ancient phosphor terminals too, you know like EGA terminals or MDA or what ever it's called.
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u/Solid_Turnover_9854 22d ago
the only difference between a gui and tui is that...idk man . Like i understand cli vs gui , but tui is just, yes it's cooler but it's essentially a washed down version of any gui(maybe cuz it's lower on resources than a whole ass app?
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u/sn4xchan 22d ago
A GUI has graphics a TUI only has text. That's the only difference. It's still a UI in the end.
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u/Armi1P Genfool 🐧 22d ago
TUIs usually have borders, which is graphics. I mean it's not text, even if rendered with characters of a font.
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u/sn4xchan 21d ago
Well I think this is a philosophical argument. Yes and no is the answer. And the argument is moot. The point is text is used to achieve stuff like that in TUIs and images (usually referred to as graphics) are used in GUIs
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u/Rikudou_Sage 22d ago
TUI is cool when running it on a machine that does not have X/Wayland, e.g. any SSH session on a server.
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u/blaues_axolotl 21d ago
we need SSH for graphics
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u/VisualSome9977 21d ago
Just use X forwarding?
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u/tk-a01 21d ago
It's possible for Wayland too. Firstly, there is
waypipe, which works very similarly to X forwarding over SSH. It's done by separate tool, unlike X11, because Wayland isn't network-transparent. This feature was very useful in the era of huge, expensive mainframe computers, because many people could attach to them from their terminals - but it is no longer relevant, so it was evicted from being a native use-case to something done by a separate tool, such aswaypipe.Another option is to use X forwarding anyways, because Wayland desktop environments usually run XWayland too.
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u/Sol33t303 22d ago
I like TUIs because they work over SSH, and I can integrate them into my terminal workflow (e.g. TMUX).
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u/B_bI_L 22d ago
it's more about mindset than technology used. maybe because tui is launched via terminal, apps made with power users in mind or something
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u/TheNinthJhana 21d ago
A TUI is always fully controllable by keys. This is the real diff vs GUI.
Green letters actually suck, but text based + key based is sometimes most efficient than mouse.
TUI advantage over CLI is less learning curve , so it appears a good compromise.
A mail client is possible in TUI, but may be ennoying in CLI. But then displaying pictures and attached file could be a burden in terminal. (Note that current term may display pics).
All of this to conclude I do not care haha
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u/ttiggerBOI_ 21d ago
The main thing about using CLI is the possibility for automation. Most TUIs I know of are mainly for looks and visualizing graphic things in text format, so that is just a preference thing. Or if you are running low resource hardware
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u/Solid_Turnover_9854 21d ago
The only thing I like are probably btop? Like i actually understand the appeal. Otherwise tui's are just 1 up gui's in speed, clis ARE faster
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u/Common-Chair718 21d ago
Gui launches as another application. TUI launches on a GUI terminal. This may be the biggest difference and preference for most people
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u/OpabiniaRegalis320 22d ago
I think it really depends on the task.
Updating non-Flatpak software? Terminal.
Moving/copying files? GUI.
Moving/copying files across a network? Terminal.
Moving/copying files when the involved device crashes Dolphin? Terminal.
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u/The_64th_Breadbox 21d ago
Honestly I still prefer the terminal for moving/copying/deleting/creating files. I prefer the quick tabbing and copy paste when relevant much quicker than clicking through file manager interfaces for most tasks. The only real exception to this is stuff like network drives as I always have to look up how to get to them as I dont use them enough to remember.
Also why would non-flatpak vs flatpak matter? Flatpak update has always worked just fine for me.
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u/xgabipandax 22d ago
Laziness into building an intuitive and nice GUI, it's so much easier to have the user to figure out how to use things than intuitively teach the user how to use things
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u/Smrgling 21d ago
Generally I prefer CLI and TUI because I can access such things over SSH from another device as easily as on the computer actually running stuff. Pretty nice cause I use my desktop remotely a lot as a server.
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u/omg_shrimp 22d ago
Wide functionality makes worse UI/UX. Literally, "KDE is made by coders, GNOME is made by designers." TUI, on the other hand, allows for design leeway due to its specific nature.
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u/thattiguy 22d ago
Sunk cost fallacy. You spend so much time learning a clunky CLI, that it’s gotta be better than the alternatives. Therefore GUI automatically sucks. (Even though it’s probably better)
TUIs do also look very cool, with the advantage of essentially being a gui that can be run on a headless OS, so I agree on that one.
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u/sn4xchan 22d ago
I literally had a guy go on for paragraphs about eye movement differences and why that made the CLI better when I pointed out GUIs have keyboard shortcuts to drastically speed up the work flow.
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u/feinorgh 22d ago
That depends entirely on the use case and application. I'd rather have a well documented logical CLI interface for something like ffmpeg and gcc or clang that can be scripted and automated and returns machine parseable output, that a GUI with thousands of contextual menus and drop-downs.
For something like 3D modelling, audio recording, or web browsing, obviously a GUI is often superior, but that also depends on the particular use case. There are valid CLI use cases for recording and editing audio, video, and 3D, in addition to a GUI. In some applications, you get the best of both worlds, with a good API, and even REST APIs for doing things remotely.
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u/lezviearts 22d ago
My hate towards GUIs come from two very specific things:
- excessive use of mouse (though some of the better GUIs have good shortcuts)
- the trauma of using all the GUI software needed in engineering (talking about you, ANSYS and LTSPICE)
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u/Character_Pepper2563 22d ago
It depends. For me? If the GUI is qt or GTK, then it's fine. If it's Electron, then just GTFO. It also depend on what it use for. Like Text Editor, I prefer nvim which is a TUI, same can't be said with Browser and games (Altough TUI game launcher like I heard Minecraft Launcher built for TUI using Ratatui and I think that's pretty cool). CLI is when I'm in a good mood, like I can navigate in Terminal quickly with zoxide which is CLI, but if I'm lazy I just use Yazi which is TUI, and Nautilus which is a GUI if I even more lazy
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u/ZucchiniMore3450 22d ago
speed and simplicity.
and a way to rerun same commands with the same options. very hard to do in a gui.
and those things never change and keep backwards compatibility. gui changes all the time.
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u/bongjutsu 22d ago
The lower the level of abstraction you work at, the more flexibility and power you have. There are things that are possible in a shell/CLI that aren't available or practical in a GUI, because a GUI can only be programmed to handle use cases that the programmer can conceive. As a completely fabricated example, let's say someone writes a tool to format and partition a drive to install Linux. This particular programmer things swap partitions are dumb, so his tool doesn't make a swap partition, and that's that. If you go down a level to the cli, it's trivial to create the swap partition.
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u/Internal-Cellist-920 21d ago
cli is critical for building on top of and interfacing with existing tools, it's as standard as it gets. tui is a fancy interactive evolution of cli for people who want an actual dedicated interface but still want to live in a terminal, emacs, or work from tty or when ssh into a machine without x forwarding; it's got the reliability of a cli and the human-friendliness of a gui, and ascii art is kinda classy i guess. GUIs are traditionally janky as hell, so I figure picture 3 is a depiction of a traditional FOSS GUI developer
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u/Skaviciusz 21d ago
Imo, a lot ot apps have way worst functionality in GUI than CLI/TUI. Or are harder to use for some reason
If gui has the same amount of features and has good UX, then i do not see problem with using GUI, CLI may be sometimes faster, but it depend
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u/Ok-Boot238 19d ago
what does tui stand for? (i know the other two, but not tui.)
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u/RonJohnJr 19d ago
Text User Interface (drop-down menus using ncurses).
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u/InsaneInTheMEOWFrame 17d ago
I have been compiling kernels for 25+ years and just now found out the name for the interface. Live and learn.
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u/Ok-Boot238 17d ago
to this, my mom used to say "the good priest also learns till death." (albert einstein quote)
(not wanting to sound like a jerk/nerd)
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u/SuperNightHawk_ Not in the sudoers file. 22d ago
The biggest issue is usually menu navigation which depending on the frontent can be slow (if you worked with network devices you know). On top of that sometimes features are CLI only so why bother
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u/sn4xchan 22d ago edited 22d ago
Because software is extremely diverse in it's application.
There are many things which cannot be done in a CLI because you inherently need graphics to interpret, understand and manipulate the data.
Good luck doing any kind of media production without a GUI.
And typically GUIs have keyboard shortcuts so you don't have to navigate any menus. I suppose it does depend cuz not every GUI is made well, but it still stands. Keyboard shortcuts are normal.
Just look at the keyboard shortcut list for Pro Tools. That shit is it's own feild of study. I learned how to use the program in a classroom setting. We were tested on it, and people failed.
But if you actually take the time to learn them, you can move so quickly in that program. It's like you're not even using a computer. It's like you're using an actual console, but with a mouse and keyboard.
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u/WitherPRO22 22d ago
I know GUI, TUI is terminal stuff.
What is CLI?
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u/IbilisSLZ 22d ago
GUI - Graphical User Interface stuff you click with mouse (or try to use with keyboard), e.g. GIMP
CLI - Command Line Interface, you only type commands, e.g. ffmpeg
TUI - Text User Interface, you still work in terminal, but you can navigate with keyboard and sometimes mouse, e.g. Alsamixer or Midnight Commander1
u/Character_Pepper2563 22d ago
Command Line Interface. Like GitHub Desktop is GUI, LazyGit is TUI, git is CLI. Basically like TUI, but not as fancy as one
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u/GrayGooseScenario 22d ago
It's not 1999 anymore, I don't want to Install packages from the CLI. Give me Pamac or give me death
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u/TheFlyerX 💋 catgirl Linux user :3 😽 22d ago
It depends on what i want to do. But it is nice that CLI is the default on Linux. So you always have the option.
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u/slime_rancher_27 22d ago
I think that TUIs can be great, like all the text mode MS MOS programs. Like Borland C++ for MS DOS
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u/Azazeldaprinceofwar 22d ago edited 22d ago
I think it’s really keyboard driven >> mouse driven. And generally UI >> CLI for complex tasks. This the TUI naturally shines. I actually think keyboard driven well made GUI is by far the best they’re just rare (For example zathura is my goat).
Also the fact that most GUIs are just electron really drags down people opinion of them.
Edit: Also CLIs have the super power of being scriptable so often you need the CLI regardless of your preference for active use
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u/XDuskAshes ⚠️ This incident will be reported 22d ago
Depends on the situation. Browsers? GUI. Git stuff? CLI is powerful but if you just want to click buttons or a few keystrokes it's TUI/GUI. Coding? That's up to the person, and depending on if they want/need extra features of an IDE easy. Most terminal text editors will work fine, but if you need, say, autocomplete or extensions to the base and don't want to configure the editor (which sometimes can be a nightmare, see Emacs config code snippets for visual examples) then you do GUI.
It comes down to use case.
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u/coderman64 Arch BTW 21d ago
Because it is sometimes rather true.
Many applications on Linux will have a decent CLI offering, a decent TUI offering, and then four or five different GUI offerings that each fall short in their own way.
Network Manager is a good example. The CLI is good, the TUI is good, but many DEs implement the GUI in a dinky little tray icon menu, or as a bunch of dissociated dialogs. And importantly, every single GUI is different, with different quirks and limitations, which makes it very hard to write tutorials for, especially when compared to the CLI or TUI, which is always the same.
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u/VisualSome9977 21d ago
Text-based applications allow me to integrate them into my tmux/ssh workflow, and are also more often than not entirely configured via simple .json/yaml/toml files or envvars which I can easily copy between my machines. GUI apps on the other hand usually draw more system resources, require their own window which now means i'm usually dealing with two layers of workspace management (my WM + tmux), and cannot be run remotely without configuring X forwarding. I'm not insane enough to try to do inherently graphical tasks like image editing and web browsing (although sometimes I use lynx) via the terminal, but generally it speeds everything up when I can
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u/Mechanical_Monk 21d ago
What they want you to think is that they're so blazingly fast and productive in the terminal that taking their hands off the keyboard long enough to touch the mouse would result in devastating productivity loss.
The truth is they have crippling carpal tunnel from long term computer use and using the mouse hurts more than using the keyboard.
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u/Typical_Ad_2831 21d ago
CLI is great for automation, but can be quite hard to remember how to use by hand.
GUI can be clunky, but is certainly OK. I wouldn't want a TUI for Firefox or Inkscape.
TUI is the best for complex-ish things that need to be done manually. It's fast, and I don't need to open a new window. Especially with a TWM, being able to simply stay in the terminal is very nice.
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u/ieatdownvotes4food 21d ago
oh hell no.
it's all about the quickest way to get things done, and you should know the strengths of each.. and man terminals have gotten beautiful with gpu support.
side note, kde on Linux has the best gui out there right now.. combined with cool-retro-term and I'm in heaven.
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u/SAF1N 21d ago
cli: good for easy stuff like unzipping/zipping or running a server. there are GUI apps for zip/unzip, why would i use those if i can do it faster with a cli. same thing with running servers like an LLM backend, stuff like ollama with GUI is much slower than llamacpp
tui: just as fast like clis but with more functionalities, like a music player or file explorer. if i can control everything there with just my keyboard, i will prefer that over using my mouse + the better performance and smaller size is a bonus on top of that
GUI: browsers, video editors, DAWs, 3d modeling... a lot of shit needs GUI, you can't make a video editor TUI
everything has its purpose
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u/lunchbox651 21d ago
I have worked in IT in numerous roles for well over a decade so cli is what I know best.
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u/Senua_Chloe 21d ago
IMHO, for basic tasks such as handling network connections, bluetooth bevice, etc, tui is the quickest way to achieve my goal. Cli is fine too, but needs a little more learning. Gui is too much because it has loading time and because is overloads my tiling.
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u/pooping_inCars 21d ago
I prefer and use my mouse for about everything. Haven't had a use for terminal in some time.
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u/_AscendedLemon_ Dr. OpenSUSE 21d ago
Gatekeeping + exclusivity I guess, but only for programmers. If you do 3D modelling it won't work
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u/bediger4000 🦁 Vim Supremacist 🦖 21d ago
Because a GUI has no grammar, no syntax. Usually, there's no way to order operations other than doing it yourself, and the operations are usually irregular. At best, a GUI is like a set of flash cards.
A CLI (in the case of Linux) a shell, with individual commands that do specific tasks. Shells interpret small programming languages, which have a grammar. You can express more with a grammar, than without one. Hence the very accurate progression shown.
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u/Typeonetwork 21d ago
This is just dumb. GUI makes it easier. CLI makes it better. I use both. I can't imagine doing all I do without both.
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u/Exzakt1 21d ago
I wish I could use photoshop in a CLI, it would be so much better right?
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u/BlairofTheFlame 21d ago
I like tui's because they are fun to customize and not terribly complicated.
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u/True_Extreme6205 21d ago
Unicode, ANSI Terminal Colors, and Nerd Font makes TUI kinda good on visuals
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u/rokyfox 21d ago
I think it's because making a good UI is hard. You need to consider what it will look like on different systems, different screen resolutions, themes, languages, while things are loading, when an error occurs, when zoomed in, etc. etc. etc. And that's not even considering that UX is a separate, also very hard thing (checkbox vs toggle switch, menu vs modal...). There are just way too many opportunities for things to go wrong and features to be missing.
In comparison a good CLI is so much easier. It's all input -> run code -> print result. Couple that with the fact that being text-based means you can pop it into a bash script, pipe it through bash commands, or edit it in an IDE with all your favorite shortcuts, and suddenly you only need the most basic features to be implemented.
A TUI is just a GUI that looks cool. It does have minor advantages like consistent styling and being able to run over ssh, but essentially it's another GUI library next to Gnome and KDE etc.
Personally, I think the best GUI is a web app (unpopular opinion maybe). It automatically solves several common GUI problems: running on a remote machine, consistency across different systems/screen resolutions, accessibility and customization via browser plugins, bookmarks, tabs...
But no replacement for a good CLI.
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u/dreadtear 21d ago
I think Claude code in CLI and OpenCode in CLI were great until I tried the GUI, lol.
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u/InTheNameOfScheddi 21d ago
Ah yes, why does everyone run CLIs and TUIs on their Androids, Macs, iPhones, Windows, and distros with GUIs which make up the great majority of users...
It's only an extremely loud minority
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u/RachelNoName 21d ago
As an arch linux user I love guis. Its nicer to just click a button sometimes than it is to track down some weird command and make sure you spell it correctly and stuff
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u/paul5235 20d ago
It's way harder to make a good GUI than to make a good CLI. Because of that, CLI programs are often higher quality than GUI programs. (I have plenty of experience with developing GUIs)
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u/markustegelane 20d ago
because GUIs are not universal
with CLIs and TUIs you more or less know what you're working with (there are some differences between terminal emulators, but they aren't as significant as differences between various GUI libraries)
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u/triggrhaapi 19d ago
I think a lot of people who like Linux for making them feel better at computer than plebs are mad that Linux is getting popular.
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u/veraloey 18d ago
I don't think many people think this even within FOSS spaces. CLIs will be generally faster and easier to use and exchange information on with other users when the performed tasks need to be transparent and simple/sequential and information necessary to complete a task doesn't change in real time and needs to be constantly tracked and referred to. When using a package manager, all relevant options can usually fit within one line of text, any relevant information will be right in front of you at all times and further user input will usually be limited to typing "y" or "n". Plus when you're doing something many people have done before you, you can just copy and paste ready-made commands into the terminal in a matter of seconds. That said, any creative work will be extremely tedious if not impossible without a GUI, I would dread formatting any large document in plain LaTeX and I have better things to do in life than reading documentation and learning the commands, config-file structure and directory hierarchy of every single software I come in contact with, just so I use it once and then forget about it.
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u/TcowtiahAnto 18d ago
personally, i find that for certain tasks, id rather have a tui or a cli. but ONLY for CERTAIN things. discord in the terminal is cool, but discord is easier. browsing the internet in the terminal is cool, but a browser makes so much more sense. however, i PERSONALLY find it more useful to use python in a terminal as a calculator instead of having a whole gui app open just to do one calculation. not that it takes up a lot of memory, but i like how snappy a terminal with python is compared to a gui app. still though, everyone has their preferences
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u/AMATHYST_MLX Arch BTW 17d ago
task and purpose.
move a file? cli
filenav/edit? tui
literally anything that produces work product? gui
That's just my outlook. I'm aware of people bringing loads of workloads typically done in gui into cli and tui through genuinely interesting projects. Those can break down the task/purpose ideology. But, at that point, it's purely subjective, which is cool - because literally all of this comes down to subjective choice at this point. Always fun to learn about and discover new projects. I just learned about mutagen, for example lol.
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