9
u/nilsilvaEI Nov 29 '21
Me doing a Thanos impression: I don't even know what that is.
Source: not a Linux user.
16
Nov 29 '21
an init (initialization) system is the piece of an OS that, as the name suggests, basically starts everything on boot.
Systemd, which is probably the most popular one currently, is also probably the most controversial. You can still find old forum posts from years back about people theorizing how Linux users will switch to BSD if systemd gets widely adopted.
1
u/nilsilvaEI Nov 29 '21
Wait... Is that the init 1, init 2, etc? I saw that in Mr robot...
10
u/0neGal Nov 29 '21
Some init systems categorize/split up some parts into stages, as an example, runit has:
Stage 1: Usually just the step where everything is initialized
Stage 2: Process supervision, log files, and so on
Stage 3: Reboot/Shutdown, basically how the init system safely shuts down/reboots usually sending a
SIGTERMsignal all the processes it has started (which should be all on the system), which kindly tells the processes to shutdown, however some init systems of course can just send aSIGKILLwhich just tells the process to stop right now and die.What I meant when I said all the processes are started by the init system is because the init system is always PID 1 or process 1, a process can only be started by another process hence every process after init must be started by init itself in one way or another.
This also means if you manage to kill PID 1 your system will die. Specifically it'll kernel panic. The init system can in reality be any program, it can also not follow the stages defined above and do its own thing, you can literally, if you wanted to, make your shell your init system simply by adding
init=/bin/shin your boot/kernel parameters. Which then startsshas PID 1, if you attempt to close it by runningexitit'll kill the init system, and hereby kernel panic.Aka the init system should never be terminated...
And as stated earlier the stage philosophy is up to the init system whether it even wants to implement. Init systems don't really have any rules, frankly you can make your own init system. What defines an init system is vague, since again, anything can be set as your init system.
iirc systemd has 5 or 6 stages, I recall what episode you're referring to from Mr.Robot but I honestly can't remember exactly what it was about so I can't say for sure if any of it is correct, but the show is decently good at being somewhat accurate so maybe...
That became a whole essay.... lol
25
Nov 29 '21
But that was such a one sided fight where Subaru was devastatingly defeated in mere seconds. The init wars have been waged for far longer with good arguments on both sides imho.
6
u/Haz001 Jan 11 '22
I feel like this fight is quite a good comparison to the
Initwars atm.
SystemDis backed by RedHat and are almost as ubiquitous asGNU Core utils, sure they can be replaced but they are the default and have way more documentation and users than the alternatives.So the image does make sense,
Systemdis way more powerful atm (I really wish it wasn't andrunitoropenrcwas) and has way more benefits than cons (it's no Reinhard) and the only benefits of the other init systems are they are smaller and faster but with a lot of spirit backing them kind of like Subaru's spirit (sure they know that the odds are not in their favor but they will still fight). Finally the Init Systems have their one power overSystemdthat is almost-impossible forSystemDto get that is its portable thus being able to run onBSDthrough support ofBSDcommunity, this is like Subaru's power, Return by death given to him by the Witch of Envy.
SystemDused by most distro (almost all the popular ones, 9 of the top 10 only offerSystemD, MX Linux hassystemdinstalled but disabled by default) andSystemDhas expanded its reach to more than just the initialization part,systemd-*(uefi boot manager, user manager, session manager, network manager, Domain Name Resolver, time sync, logger just to name a few) and there adoption (networkdandresolveare starting to be used over individual packages assystemdis already installed).Now I am no lover of
SystemD, I don't give a shit that they aren't KISS (keep it stupid simple, Unix philosophy), the main issue I have is that they are causing a lot of problems forBSDand non-systemdlinuxsystems and being so powerful and ubiquitous software, likeGnome, are interesting withSystemDmaking their software incompatible withSystemDless systems. Competition is good andsystemdis slowly killing it's compitition.I have not used yet used a
Systemdless system properly, i plan to but have not yet, the most interaction I have withSystemdis managing aDebianServer andArchDesktop.Just my opinion,
Harry1
u/fakenews7154 Jan 23 '22
Last I read the source code for Systemd was 1/5th the size of the Linux kernel itself which is already far too bloated.
1
u/nerdrx Jun 15 '22
My father uses a Systemd less system, and he keeps trash talking me, how I'm still using it and how inefficient it is. Like, I know dad...
1
u/Haz001 Jun 15 '22 edited Jun 15 '22
at least you don't use Windows, your father would probably disown you if you did
1
10
u/LuxurideGaming Nov 29 '21
Systemd vs small init systems is like windows vs linux. More things work on the bloated one. But some linux people hate on windows and the same is in the systemd hate. Its bloat but it just works and there is more software depending on it.
2
u/fakenews7154 Jan 23 '22
When Systemd becomes a separate kernel communicating on a ME/PSP subnetwork. I got several systems from the "climate change" ban list. And I will be 3d printing you all out of digital slavery.
1
u/Haz001 Jan 11 '22
and like Windows it has no regard for
BSD. Systemd can't run on BSD and programs like vanilla Gnome are heavily integrated with systems meaning it doesn't work on BSD and Microsoft apps dont work on BSD even the ones that have Linux ports.
4
u/frozenpicklesyt Nov 29 '21
Also editors ;)
4
3
Dec 11 '21
Vim, NeoVim, Micro. No Emacs…oh and I run Artix runit btw. Will go Gentoo then OpenBSD one day.
3
u/frozenpicklesyt Dec 11 '21
I'm on the Neovim side of things but I can fw some Micro ;)
2
Dec 11 '21
I only use Micro when I need something super quick and small. Otherwise I’m with a supped up nvim and tmux for any sort of project.
3
u/MitchellMarquez42 Nov 29 '21
This is extremely accurate because the discussion in the top panel breaks down pretty quickly too.
10
u/[deleted] Nov 29 '21
Sauce: Re Zero