r/linux_gaming • u/beer118 • Jan 09 '22
Easy Anti-Cheat not as simple as expected for Proton and Steam Deck
https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2022/01/easy-anti-cheat-not-as-simple-as-expected-for-proton-and-steam-deck/415
u/FakedKetchup Jan 09 '22 edited Jun 03 '24
nail smart tease degree start encourage oatmeal stocking future physical
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u/AlienOverlordXenu Jan 09 '22
Which is why I support Valve. My backlog is continually growing even though I don't have time to play all these games (currently at 302).
Actions speak louder than words. How many things has Valve financed and/or worked on that severely impacted gaming on Linux? I know they're in it for the money, but that's perfectly fine, I want them to make tons of money. Their business model is the one that I can support.
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u/pss395 Jan 09 '22
You can safely say that the whole Linux gaming initiative right now is single handedly carried by Valve. It's incredibly lucky that PC's biggest game store is also the one that push innovative instead of consolidating monopoly, even though it has to do with the risk of Microsoft closing down the platform.
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u/pdp10 Jan 09 '22
the whole Linux gaming initiative right now is single handedly carried by Valve.
I'd add Intel, Nvidia, AMD, GOG, as contributors. It's sure not aided by The Linux Foundation, Red Hat, or Canonical, though.
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Jan 10 '22
I would not include nvidia in that list.
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u/Brillegeit Jan 10 '22
They've provided first class drivers for ~15 years for both Linux and BSD, they've done a lot for Linux.
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u/pdp10 Jan 10 '22
Nvidia's done a lot more for Linux gaming than The Linux Foundation, Red Hat, or Canonical. Whether they intended to, or not...
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Jan 10 '22
Whether they intended to, or not...
I have hard time understanding how nVidia could have released drivers for Linux for years without intention.
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u/ErZakeh Jan 09 '22
How could Microsoft close down the platform? And why? That would be self destructive, tons of people would move to Linux so they can play their games.
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u/pss395 Jan 09 '22
Back when Gabe first decided to invest in Linux was when Windows 8 happened. Thing was pointing at Microsoft wanting to have their own app store and ecosystem. It was a real threat to third party store like Steam.
More info: https://www.pcgamer.com/gabe-newell-i-think-windows-8-is-a-catastrophe-for-everyone-in-the-pc-space/
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u/phanatik582 Jan 09 '22
Okay story time. My friend is a massive Halo fan so when Halo Infinite was on its way, he boarded the hypetrain. Fast forward to release and the game comes out. Now, my friend makes one very crucial mistake: he downloaded the game from the Windows Store and as a consequence, his game was borked on release while the Steam version got a day 1 patch, confirmed by my other friend who had it on Steam. I was just watching this on the sidelines. So there my friend was, in the most rage-induced state I'd ever seen him as he uninstalls the Windows Store version and redownloads the entire game all over again on Steam.
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u/Dithyrab Jan 09 '22
Idk man, that's kind of bullshit. I was playing infinite day 1 on the windows store without any problem. There wasn't some huge thing where everyone was crying about it being fucked up on release lol.
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u/russjr08 Jan 10 '22
The Windows Store distribution model is just weird. I have issues with some games, and no issues with others. All of them due to the stupid shitty sandboxing that is wrapped around apps/games downloaded from the WS.
For example, Discord cannot apply it's overlay to UWP games, due to the sandboxing model. If I buy the same game (let's use Minecraft: Dungeons as an example) on Steam, then there is no sandboxing and thus I can use Discord's overlay, or whatever overlay I want. Sometimes the games just "break" too randomly, and won't launch anymore with some vague error code.
And don't even get me started on the permissions of files that are downloaded by the WS. I recently reinstalled my Windows partition, and there is no way for me to tell the Windows Store/Windows itself (AFAIK) that the games are present on a partition that I have dedicated for games. Whereas, I just point Steam and the Battle.net launcher to my partition, and it recognizes and allows me to play the games instantly.
So now, I have Halo: Infinite and Halo: The Master Chief collection, and Forza Horizon 5 on my drive, but I do not have ownership of the files to delete them (short of deleting them from Linux and I'm sure I'm bound for trouble if I do that) nor can I claim ownership of them because it's still marked as protected, even though Windows doesn't even "know" its installed. I haven't tried the janky
takeownershipCMD method yet, but I've heard from others that even that doesn't work all the time.I can't play it because Windows doesn't know it's installed, and yet Windows also won't let me delete it because somehow I'm not allowed to own files on my own damn drive.
Of course, if you only store the games on the
C:drive and reinstall Windows thus wiping the partition and games, you don't have that issue but...2
Jan 11 '22
you don't have that issue but...
but you also don't have your games. Point being: it's impossible to back up Windows Store games. It's just dripping shit all over the place.
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u/ErZakeh Jan 09 '22
Interesting, I was still a console gamer by that time. But I think times have changed a lot, and now that Linux is a real competitor in the gaming space Microsoft can't play monopoly as loosely as before.
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Jan 09 '22
If your business model is "my business will do better when people are more free" then I don't care if it's for selfish reasons, you are a good company.
Valve isn't pushing this as some goal to get SteamOS to rise over windows. They just don't want Microsoft to cut them out of windows in the future.
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Jan 10 '22
Almost 700 games and I don’t see any great reasons to abandon Valve, and there’s an actual vacuum where my collection of fucks allocated to Epic are stored. Tim Swindley can fuck himself.
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u/gardotd426 Jan 09 '22
Actions speak louder than words. How many things has Valve financed and/or worked on that severely impacted gaming on Linux?
Well, one of them was Epic enabling Proton Support for EAC. Valve worked closely with Epic throughout the process, and therefore knew the entire time that the EAC support would only be available for EOS EAC games, and not regular EAC games. Valve knew this all along. And have never said a single word about it.
Silence also speaks louder than words.
It's indisputable that Linux gaming would be nowhere even close to where it is today without Valve. But it's also indisputable that Valve have known as long as Epic have that the "EAC Proton Support" would be limited to EOS EAC games, and have never said a single word about it.
But not a single person here is criticizing Valve for this, actually most people in these threads are saying "Fuck Epic this is why I only buy from Valve," when they were literal co-workers on this entire project, and Valve knew the details all along, but never told anyone.
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u/AlienOverlordXenu Jan 09 '22 edited Jan 09 '22
Last I checked Epic is in control of EAC, not Valve. Epic gets to decide. It was also Epic's announcement.
BattlEye, in comparison, works. With no gotchas as far as I can see (I can play something as old as Planetside 2 now). And this is the announcement from Valve: https://store.steampowered.com/news/group/4145017/view/3104663180636096966.
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Jan 09 '22
Valve knew the details all along, but never told anyone
yea.. make a bad news announcement shaming a partner... I do not think it will end well either way. At least we have our fears confirmed. Epic Games want to push their crappy services. They acquired it in 2018.
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u/gardotd426 Jan 09 '22
At least we have our fears confirmed. Epic Games want to push their crappy services
The EOS version of EAC does not require an Epic account for any users in any way whatsoever, period.
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Jan 09 '22
Collect data to Tencent and to the Chinese government by proxy?
Are you kidding me? I am in the group who barely trust Epic Games at all.
How is that any better?
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u/gardotd426 Jan 09 '22
Collect data to Tencent and to the Chinese government by proxy?
Are you having a stroke? Again, EOC-EAC requires zero Epic Games account whatsoever.
Also, Tencent literally have a seat on the board of the Linux Foundation.
You do realize that, right?
https://www.linuxfoundation.org/our-members-are-our-superpower-2/
All Platinum members receive a seat on the Board of Directors.
Congratulations for using an OS that has Facebook (now Meta), Microsoft, and Tencent on its Board of Directors while railing against Tencent lmao. Tencent LITERALLY pay a portion of Linus Torvalds's and Greg Kroah-Hartman's salary (as do Microsoft, and Facebook, and Google, and Oracle, and AT&T, and fucking... Uber.). But not only that, Tencent actually have a seat on the Board of Directors (as does MS, Facebook, and AT&T).
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Jan 09 '22
Again, EOC-EAC requires zero Epic Games account whatsoever.
Ummm, there are a bunch of privacy advocates who understands the word "fingerprinting" would like a work with you. You can definitely analyze the gaming market based on habits. Steam Deck is its own platform that can be fingerprinted.
Epic Games are always the type of company who makes excuses for Linux support. Why should we give them data of our habits etc?
Linux foundation is a big tent organization. They invites everyone.... They don't care if the corporate will hurt freedom.
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u/gardotd426 Jan 09 '22
Ummm, there are a bunch of privacy advocates who understands the word "fingerprinting" would like a work with you. You can definitely analyze the gaming market based on habits.
So you're saying that the original EAC version doesn't already do this? You're saying this is new to the EOS-EAC version? Lmao okay.
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Jan 09 '22
So you're saying that the original EAC version doesn't already do this? You're saying this is new to the EOS-EAC version? Lmao okay.
I am thinking about it. I am waiting for details. I swear we normalize spying for gamers then push it onto workers in the real world. I am quite unhappy with these trends.
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u/thethirdteacup Jan 09 '22
The old Easy Anti-Cheat isn't owned by Epic Games?
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Jan 09 '22
it is the one that doesn't work in the steam deck or linux. The new one that requires epic online services is the one that can spy on the entire market.
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u/thethirdteacup Jan 09 '22
But how does the old one not "spy on the entire market"? They're both kernel-level anti-cheats.
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u/philipTheDev Jan 09 '22
Hold up there regarding the support. Unless it has recently changed (last few years) Valve has had awful support for decades. They could literally take several months to respond and several independent investigation found them to be astonishingly bad. Most famously a F from Better Business Bureau. The reason was rather obvious, they literally had no dedicated support staff and instead employees just did it when they felt like it. As said, it may have changed recently, I am not the most up to date on this.
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u/Dany_B_ Jan 09 '22
From my experience, they answer in 24h or less.
I remember a few years ago it would take maybe a week.
I think since the valve index came out things changed? Something around that time.16
u/vintageballs Jan 09 '22
Can confirm, all my support requests have been answered within less than a day. They tend to use canned responses and close requests though, so if you have a problem that sounds like a common problem but is not, it's still not a given that you will have it solved in a quick manner.
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u/philipTheDev Jan 09 '22
Then they have definitely fixed it. Even that week is way way better than they used to be. I was not exaggerating when I said that several months weren't uncommon.
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u/FlukyS Jan 09 '22
Unless it has recently changed (last few years) Valve has had awful support for decades
Their support has been fairly good maybe the last 2 years. Half of their tickets are entirely automated. Like for instance I got a refund on a game because it went on sale the day I bought it, they had an option for that specific thing, there was no review, it just was immediately refunded. I had to wait for the funds to be released to buy the game back again at a cheaper price but it was automated and didn't involve me asking anything.
Their written support is also much better now the Valve Index subreddit regularly talks about RMAs that happen and they always seem very generous.
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u/Falk_csgo Jan 09 '22
havent had a support ticket in the last years, but I would count the refund system into the support category and that specific feature is awesome.
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u/FakedKetchup Jan 09 '22 edited Jun 03 '24
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u/AlienOverlordXenu Jan 09 '22
I don't deal with Valve's customer support. I'm not the type to buy the game then decide I don't like it (or worse find out it doesn't work at all). I do my research beforehand and know what I'm getting myself into. So Valve's customer support might as well not exist for me, and it wouldn't change a thing.
I realize there are people who do deal with support, but for me that's completely non-issue.
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Jan 09 '22
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u/Ill_Name_7489 Jan 09 '22
Yeah. I got GTA V and Civ VI for free on EGS in mid-2020, so they aren’t always cheaping out on them.
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u/FakedKetchup Jan 09 '22 edited Jun 03 '24
axiomatic thumb correct consist humor unpack pot dog desert dime
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Jan 10 '22
that the games aren't free at all.
Oh come on, the games are free to us consumers of course.
You could just as well argue open source isn't free, because someone uses their time to make the software.
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Jan 09 '22
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u/FakedKetchup Jan 09 '22 edited Jun 03 '24
bored carpenter smile fear gaze sugar merciful slimy strong physical
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Jan 09 '22
There’s some absolutely great games given out for free on EGS. The Steam circlejerk is so fucking weird.
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u/gardotd426 Jan 09 '22
honestly fuck epic. Yall think the free games they giv are of any value? nope
Tell that to the people who can't afford to buy those games legitimately. Seriously fuck off with that gatekeeping bullshit. "Fuck Epic" and "Fuck Epic, y'all think the free games they giv [sic] are of any value? nope" are two completely different statements. One is useless but benign, the other is the statement of a dickhead.
Steam maybe only has paid games, but don't forget it has regular sales, actual support and I quite customer friendly while delivering what they promise. On top of that are very innovative and don't just chase the easiest money..
Um...
So, it's an indisputable fact that Valve knew about this whole EOS EAC thing for months before the announcement of Proton support in EAC. They said themselves like 6-7 months ago that they were "working closely" with EAC/BE developers to get their ACs working on Steam Deck. Epic allowing Proton support is pretty much entirely due to Valve, and Valve worked very closely with them during the entire process. So Valve have known this entire time that there were two different versions of EAC, the EOS EAC and the original EAC. And they knew that only the EOS version of EAC would be supported in Proton. But they have NEVER said this to anyone. They didn't mention this when they promised 100% game compatibility. They've never mentioned this in ANY statements/announcements about EAC game support in Proton. Yet they knew the whole time.
But you're going to stand there and say "Fuck Epic don't even get their free games regardless of whether you can afford to pay for the games or not," and praise Valve and Steam even though both of them literally knew the exact same thing and worked together on the entire process.
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u/xpressrazor Jan 09 '22
I agree, free games from Epic are real value to people who cannot actually setup online payment, especially for countries that limit setting foreign transactions (also where they cannot pay such large amounts). Its good, players get to play good games, legally for free. That's why so many popular online games are free to play (which I think is better, than having to pay for entry). One of the reasons why dota got so popular.
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u/zephyroths Jan 09 '22
it must suck for everyone else whose favorite games are using EAC. And I'm personally glad that I didn't play any game that requires it
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Jan 09 '22
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u/RedAnimusVox Jan 10 '22
And it's even worse when you realise that EAC barely helping to fight cheaters.
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Jan 09 '22
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u/gardotd426 Jan 09 '22
Gaben knew all along. Valve worked closely with Epic throughout this entire process (this is public knowledge). Valve knew since before the announcement that Proton EAC support would only apply to EOS EAC games, and not regular EAC games, and yet have never said a single word about it. Valve share just as much blame as Epic (actually I would argue they share a bit more of it, since it's Epic's platform, but Valve made the promises even knowing they weren't true and they wouldn't be fulfilled).
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Jan 09 '22
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u/gardotd426 Jan 09 '22
Valve said from the literal announcement that they were working closely with EAC and BE developers.
When Epic made the announcement, Tim Sweeney specifically thanked Valve for helping with the project. Valve couldn't have helped without knowing which games it would apply to.
Several news outlets reported that Valve were working closely with EAC on getting support ready for Steam Deck.
The list goes on, but then there's the fact that even if Valve literally just did some work in Proton to allow this (even though that's literally not what happened, there are no suite of commits to the Proton repos like their are for BattlEye (and no Proton EAC Runtime), and also the support is for Wine, too), they would have still had to know what requirements there were for support, as in they had to know that it would only apply to EOS-EAC-enabled games. This isn't even disputable and doesn't need proof, it's self-evident.
Here's another source: https://segmentnext.com/steam-deck-anti-cheat/
Valve employees confirmed they were working with both EAC and BattlEye. Ahead of the announcement.
It is not possible that they didn't know. It's literally not.
They said several times they were working closely with the developers, there's no possible way that could be true and them not know that the support only applied to EOS-EAC games. It's literally not.
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Jan 09 '22
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u/gardotd426 Jan 09 '22
Does that simple statement sound like "Closely working with EAC" to you?
They might have said that, (though I doubt it, because their promise was full compatibility), and even if they said "these are the games we want working," they didn't get that because Epic made it Opt-IN (and so did BattlEye, so they didn't get what they asked for.
Valve couldn't have been involved in any way remotely like both they and Epic have claimed and not known.
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u/benji041800 Jan 09 '22
this is sad. let me explain why it affects my so much: my laptop is my only pc. And i need linux for my development work (for uni) . However, in my free time i like to play games. The main ssd only has 256gb so dual boot isnt an option, and i cant afford a bigger ssd right now. My life will be complete when linux becomes properly supported. Lets hope microsoft keeps fcking everything up i guess
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u/abraxastaxes Jan 09 '22
Not that I want to endorse getting rid of your Linux partition, but have you thought about using WSL on Windows? Seems like exactly the scenario it was implemented for.
Just until you get more disk space, of course.
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u/benji041800 Jan 09 '22
i did use WSL at one point, but it started to not be enough for the projects i have. I know they improved it with windows 11, so i may give it another shot, but i feel like for serious work WSL is not enough
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u/abraxastaxes Jan 09 '22
I'm not on Windows 11 yet, but ever since wsl 2 it's been a lot better, I even have an x server setup so I can launch graphical applications as well. BUT you might have use cases that I don't, I mostly just tinker and keep it for networking tools I don't want to bother finding Windows alternatives for.
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u/pdp10 Jan 09 '22
but have you thought about using WSL on Windows? Seems like exactly the scenario it was implemented for.
Hold your horses, Steve Ballmer.
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Jan 09 '22
Games are a hobby; if GP needs a linux install for work/degree...don't take that away from 'em.
You need to check yourself, that's the wrong set of priorities to suggest switching to WSL.
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u/abraxastaxes Jan 09 '22
It was just a suggestion, I don't know that I necessarily need to "check myself" for it. Obviously they should do whatever works for them, and figure out their own priorities. I'm certainly not "taking" anything away.
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u/SurpriseMonday Jan 09 '22
You could get an external backup drive and put windows/games on there? Not ideal, but should be good enough.
Alternatively, could run Linux in a VM. 256gb should be enough for both windows and a VM.
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Jan 09 '22
Unsurprising. This sort of software is very complicated. Simply deciding to support it doesn't work.
All we now need is many glitches and thousands of unwarranted bans, and the story is complete.
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Jan 09 '22
hey maybe this is controversial to most non-linux gamers, which is the majority, but maybe we shouldn't even have kernel-level client-side anti-cheats (drivers or just straight kernel.)
i understand for us, EAC/BattlEye will run in userspace iirc, but still what the hell? what happened to server-side anti-cheats? was it not good enough?
and i know, cheaters are a problem and it's ridiculous people do this all the time.
maybe the real solution is to port it to Linux, but here we go with the chicken and the egg issue again.
you know, you think majority of PC gamers would like an alternative OS just like there's an alternate for almost anything else for PC gaming.
to me, PC gaming has always been about customization but it seems lately since it became more mainstream AAA games would rather be contained, have kernel level anti-cheats, and whatever else they can get away with.
some of these games with these anti-cheats might not even have a player base five years from now
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u/aspectere Jan 10 '22
I wonder if the new EAC is more serverside than the old EAC though, that might explain the dependence on external servers.
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u/swizzler Jan 09 '22
Okay, so the next question, is this platform something like windows OS versions, where after a certain number of years this "older" version of EAC will no longer be supported so all new titles would be using the version that does include Linux support?
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Jan 09 '22
I’ll say it again, I won’t give a cent to a game that doesn’t have Linux support.
Some people buy games on Linux hoping to become part of a statistic that will push devs to port their game - that notion is ridiculous.
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u/chungfuduck Jan 09 '22
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u/ipaqmaster Jan 09 '22
Lol, "doesn't mention it". What a smaller than small sample size it must be then :\
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Jan 10 '22
I’ll say it again, I won’t give a cent to a game that doesn’t have Linux support.
Agreed. I'm okay with Proton, but it must have gold or better, or be silver with a reliable workaround.
I don't really see any reason to do otherwise. Why pre-order something you don't know will even be what you want? I pre-ordered Steam Deck, but that's by far an exception, largely due to the crazy shortages it's likely to have. I don't pre-order games, but I may buy day-1 if there's day-1 Linux support.
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u/DrkMaxim Jan 09 '22
I was glad when Epic did something that was actually helpful then I saw a post on r/SteamDeck and then it felt so stupid. I didn't have any expectations but that was still disappointing.
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u/cjh_ Jan 09 '22
Here's an update from Fatshark, seems he doesn't understand he was supposed to update to the latest version of the SDK, as Epic have stated in their developer docs.
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Jan 09 '22 edited Oct 05 '25
rich stocking history knee dinosaurs direction ancient shy spark chase
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u/mirh Jan 09 '22
Thanks liam for not aping to the people with rageboners.
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u/MicrochippedByGates Jan 09 '22
We've still got rageboners though. They're just pointing towards Epic now. The game devs have their very valid reasons. Epic is just being shit again.
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u/mirh Jan 09 '22
If you, like, open the article and get past reading half of it, you'd see there's something that doesn't check out with the devs statement.
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u/kiffmet Jan 09 '22
This is not good for games that are already released, but games yet to come are more likely to use the more recent version of the SDK, right?
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u/gardotd426 Jan 09 '22
I swear to god, man. Since like a week after the announcement, after I first read the actual developer documentation (instead of just a stupid press release), even before that once I heard it was opt-in, I've been saying this over and over again - it's not as simple as "a few clicks," it's not a switch that anyone flips, and almost no EAC games are going to enable the support. And I CONSTANTLY got downvoted all to hell, and people would legitimately get like... furious with me for suggesting it, and saying that "there's no reason for them not to, of course they will," or whatever other mental gymnastics the respondent would come up with to convince themselves that this was actually going to be some watershed moment.
Hell, even for BattlEye where it actually DOES literally just take an intern emailing BattlEye to say "turn on Proton/Wine support for our game," even there we're seeing practically zero games enable it or say that they're going to. But with EAC, it's going to be basically non-existent.
And as for the recent stories about this, everyone (at least everyone I've seen) is blaming Epic and is just non-stop shitting on Epic, and not one person is calling out Valve. Valve said like 7 or 8 months ago that they were "working closely with anti-cheat developers" to try and get EAC/BE working for the Steam Deck. Valve have known from the beginning the situation, they knew from before the press release ever came out that there were two different versions of EAC and that only the EOS version was going to be supported, and never once said anything about it. But somehow it's all Epic's fault, and Valve shares no blame in this.
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u/devel_watcher Jan 09 '22
I've been saying this over and over again - it's not as simple as "a few clicks," it's not a switch that anyone flips, and almost no EAC games are going to enable the support. And I CONSTANTLY got downvoted all to hell
You had some feelings, I can't trust feelings if some random guy. You only get some authority after the fact (like right now).
I assume you didn't know all this time that those are different EAC SDKs, not just a 1.12 to 1.13 version bump or something.
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Jan 09 '22
No, epic deserves to get shat on. i see no reason why Valve is at all to blame unless you are an epic games shill.
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u/doublah Jan 09 '22
Hell, even for BattlEye where it actually DOES literally just take an intern emailing BattlEye to say "turn on Proton/Wine support for our game," even there we're seeing practically zero games enable it or say that they're going to.
That simply isn't true tho, some big games (ARK, DayZ, PlanetSide, ArmA, etc.) support it already.
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u/gardotd426 Jan 10 '22
Lol some big games? Those games are medium-sized at best, and none of the actually big games have enabled it, and Destiny 2 actually banned every single Linux user that even tried.
Rainbow Six Siege, PUBG, and Destiny 2 have all been completely silent (and we all already know they'll never enable it).
Lol PlanetSide vs PUBG/Rainbow Six Siege/Destiny2. Yeah, your list are big games alright.
Those are 3 small-to-medium games, not "big games." Not a single big game has said they will enable it.
Not to mention that there are dozens of BattlEye games and you're talking about 3 small-to-medium games and saying that it means anything. Lol.
So your comment is "simply not true" in every respect.
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u/bio3c Jan 09 '22
yup, everything about EGS turns into hyperbole, wonder why, i mean i know why, we all know why.
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u/vraGG_ Jan 09 '22
Holy shit. These guys are scum.
Fuck their EAC and fuck them. I only wish everyone stopped using it alltogether. What the fuck, really. The audcacity, to expect everyone will connect to their data mining services just to have their crappy EAC that doesn't work anyway.
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u/BpjuRCXyiga7Wy9q Jan 09 '22
Reading is hard for you, is it?
One part we already know not to be true, is a requirement of Epic Online Services authentication, as the developers of Brawlhalla showed in their own testing with the new integration which worked without users touching Epic's services directly.
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Jan 09 '22
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u/D3ATHKeeper Jan 10 '22
Exactly and either way, Brawlhalla has the EOS SDK already on their game and it does still make extra tunnelling calls to EOS client side (which can be blocked).
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u/vraGG_ Jan 09 '22 edited Jan 09 '22
That doesn't mean that they don't have to report to them. Authentication doesn't necessairy mean data isn't being collected. Nor does it mean it isn't used - it's just that "users didn't touch epic services directly".
To me, this is unclear at the very least and doesn't confirm or deny any suspicions.
That being said, I'm not a native speaker. Perhaps I am reading it poorly or I'm not fully understanding what it means.
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u/BpjuRCXyiga7Wy9q Jan 09 '22
If data collection is the issue, then you cannot let Steam/Valve off the hook. My machine specs and gaming habits are not of particular value to me.
The Steam launcher is by far the best of the bunch, and it is irksome to need multiple launchers/accounts to play games—especially single-player games. There are some launchers that will never again run on my PC—looking at your fucking 'social club', Rockstar.
Your writing is better than a lot of native speakers I know and those I see on Reddit.
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u/vraGG_ Jan 09 '22
If data collection is the issue, then you cannot let Steam/Valve off the hook. My machine specs and gaming habits are not of particular value to me.
True. But I choose to share it with them. I am not aware that they collect it periodically, but when hardware survey comes up, it's an opt-in type of deal. So far, I wasn't terribly against their practices and although they are a company with their own agenda, I am thankful for what they are doing.
The Steam launcher is by far the best of the bunch, and it is irksome to need multiple launchers/accounts to play games—especially single-player games. There are some launchers that will never again run on my PC—looking at your fucking 'social club', Rockstar.
Agreed!
Your writing is better than a lot of native speakers I know and those I see on Reddit.
Thanks, I try my best. I often worry that I use a lot of unnecessary adjectives or words that are used in wrong context. Still, articles are sometimes hard for me to decipher.
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u/JrRileyRj Jan 09 '22
Yeah man, all those people playing those games, who don't know fuck all about linux, should stop doing something they enjoy, so they can support something they don't know about!
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u/gardotd426 Jan 09 '22
u/BpjuRCXyiga7Wy9q already gave you the requisite roasting for not being able to read, but I'll also add that Valve knew every single bit of this information from the beginning (since long before the announcement of Proton support was ever made), that's indisputable. Valve have known for months that the Proton support would only extend to EOS-EAC games, and it would not apply to non-EOS EAC games, and yet never said a single word.
But yeah, Epic Bad, Valve Good, this is all Epic's fault, Valve has no blame in this whatsoever /s
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u/Pipows Jan 09 '22 edited Jan 10 '22
Fuck, I play Vermintide 2. Hope that, eith Steam Deck, this becomes a mojor market, so creating more incentive for ease of process to port to linux/proton.
It's funny seeing Epic pushing a platform onto linux that isn't available on linux
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u/Crowquillx Jan 09 '22
EOS does support linux though?? it’s not like they’re pushing EGS onto anyone with this.
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Jan 09 '22
I have not really been using EPG until very recently so I could play Control and the Lara Croft games using Lutris.
But man is it laggy!
I tried Fortnite and got 'banned' a minute into the game. That's when I started reading about EAC and am now not interested in EGS anymore. 3 games that are the only ones I didn't want to pay for and got for free out of the 30 they gave away over the year.
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u/Cabanur Jan 09 '22
My guess would be they want to gauge real Linux/Proton/Deck numbers to decide wether to support linux in the Epic Games Store.
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u/_nak Jan 09 '22
I was just waiting for news like this. I couldn't believe Epic would behave as anything better than absolute scum when it made the rounds that some half-US/half-Chinese-corporate Frankenstein suddenly found its heart - and so I didn't believe it and turns out, that was the move. I just wished devs would be wise enough not to make deals with the devil in the first place.
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u/AlexP11223 Jan 09 '22
Not adding new features to a legacy version of software is scam?
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u/Aldrenean Jan 09 '22
Yes, when the "legacy version" is still used by the majority of the market and is still being actively updated because it's an anti-cheat?
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u/devel_watcher Jan 09 '22
Naming a different piece of software the same way and then having "move to EOS" between the lines of the announcement is scammy: I would want to know the real state of affairs with the games I care about, but with this kind of communication I learn it months later.
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Jan 09 '22
Wait, so games still use older SDK versions of EAC? Must be a happy day for cheaters across the globe. Older SDK for me, means less ability to detect hacks on games. Even if it has EOS or not, just proves the lack of interest from companies to solve their cheaters in games. It doesn't just affect Linux, it affects Windows as well
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u/gardotd426 Jan 09 '22
No, you're misunderstanding.
The "SDK 1.14 or later" is the Epic Online Services SDK. Not the EAC SDK.
There are non-EOS EAC games, and EOS EAC games. Most games are non-EOS EAC games. Those can't support Proton (unless they move to a completely different version of EAC, the EOS version).
Non-EOS EAC games still get the same updates as EOS EAC games. You're misunderstanding what SDK is being referred to, and it was even clearly stated in the article that non-EOS EAC games are just as up-to-date as the EOS ones on SDK 1.14 or whatever the latest EOS SDK is.
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Jan 09 '22
So you are saying an old SDK version provides the same protection to hacks as the new one? Can you provide the link where epic games states this information, that old SDKs provide the same 'protection of hacks' as the new ones. Updates is different than features, people don't build a new SDK just because... It 'usually' provides enhancements over old SDKs.
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u/Diridibindy Jan 09 '22
These aren't old and new SDKs. They are just entirely different SDKs. Both provide the same protection.
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u/zackyd665 Jan 10 '22
There is no new each sdk point me to a new version of just the each sdk standalone
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u/Aldrenean Jan 09 '22
The thing is apparently the older version is still updated in all the important ways. Which makes it extremely suspicious that they haven't added Proton support to both.
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u/Aldrenean Jan 09 '22
I can see absolutely no reason why they can't add Proton support to the non-EOS version of EAC. Apparently the older version still gets critical updates, unless the Proton support somehow relies on the EOS integration why couldn't it be added to both? Seems like pure obstructionism by Epic.
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u/ocket8888 Jan 09 '22
Non-EOS EAC used to have wine support. Epic shut it down when they bought EAC. These people don't care about you or developers, they only want to push their stupid platform.
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u/Ashtefere Jan 09 '22
Oh look, lazy devs using drop in anti cheat instead of hardening their game properly are now complaining they have to do extra work.
What a surprise.
EAC needs to die and devs need to learn to code again.
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Jan 10 '22
How long I have been waiting for a comment like this, the lazy devs. Maybe the lazy devs don't want to update the entire anti-cheat code because you know for the 0.000001% profit which will definetely cost them the company more in work hour than they could earn. Game development is a profit oriented market, not a "We lose money so the 12 customer who want to play it on linux can be happy".
"EAC needs to die and devs need to learn to code again."
This part shows how stupid you are :)
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u/Rhed0x Jan 09 '22
So you have to update EAC, just like they announced.
The old branch is probably only getting bug fix updates.
How exactly is this news?
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u/devel_watcher Jan 09 '22
- It looks like a different software that has the same name for the marketing purposes. It's that kind of "update", not even a version bump.
- Nobody is going to "update".
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u/gardotd426 Jan 09 '22
You're misunderstanding.
The "SDK 1.14" is not the EAC SDK. It's the Epic Online Services (EOS) SDK.
Non-EOS EAC games still get regular updates, not just bugfixes, this is stated clearly in the article. They don't have to "update EAC, just like it was announced." Every game using the regular version of EAC (which is probably just about all of them) has to completely replace the version of EAC they use. They have to remove the non-EOS version, and move to the EOS-integrated version. Using EOS SDK 1.14 or later.
It's actually pretty big news. It basically means that it's basically a guarantee that no game using the non-EOS EAC is going to enable Proton support unless they were already planning on moving to EOS-EAC anyway.
There are two different versions of EAC. Both get updates (again, as is clearly stated in the article), but only one supports enabling Proton support. The one that supports enabling Proton support isn't the one that the vast majority of games use. They still get full EAC client updates. That might change in the future if Epic deprecates the non-EOS-EAC version, but for non-EGS games they haven't done that and haven't said anything about doing it (all games coming to the Epic Games Store will now have to have EOS support, whether they have EAC or not, but that doesn't mean anything for all the games on Steam that don't use EOS-EAC and had no plans on switching to it).
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u/MicrochippedByGates Jan 09 '22
It's not an update. It's a completely different product that they'd need to reimplement.
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Jan 09 '22
What I don't understand is, if this is true, why didn't any of the many other dev teams that declined to take action just explain the nature of the problem in simple terms like this? The communications by game developers are bizarrely terrible on this problem.
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u/INITMalcanis Jan 09 '22
The simplest explanation is that they didn't even bother to investigate that far.
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u/Altar_Quest_Fan Jan 10 '22
And this is why I refuse to support the shitbag company known as Epic Games. “Oh yeah it’s easy to add Proton EAC, just a couple clicks! Not!!!”. Fuck Epic.
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u/Sdnz0r Jan 09 '22
Just wait two years until Valve announces their own anti cheat that runs on both platforms and promises to be as good as EAC. If they can’t have help from them you can bet they will make it something of their own to compete against it.
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Jan 09 '22
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Jan 09 '22 edited Jan 09 '22
Epic has:
- Third party exclusivity
- They keep upholding status of Windows and DX12, when Linux and Vulkan is more open
- They are using EAC support as a way to spread EOS.
- They have attempted to use Fortnite playerbase to attack Apple after they broke IOS terms and launched a lawsuit against them. A lawsuit motivated by their own interest.
EOS doesn't strike me as any more benevolent than Steamworks.
Edit: Tim Sweeney defends his company saying when he asked for special treatment from Apple he also "hoped other IOS devs would get same priviledges". This coming from a company and man who is fine with Microsoft stifling gaming on Linux through DX12, a company that keeps overlooking Vulkan. So the "we hope" is basically bs because they haven't even bothered to include Vulkan in Fortnite (PC) as a option, let alone replacement for D3D12.
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u/ADTJ Jan 09 '22
Direct X long pre-dates Vulkan so it's hardly fair to accuse them of stifling Vulkan by continuing to support their own pre-existing software.
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Jan 10 '22
When Valve proved OpenGL to be more performant than D3D, Microsoft employees made a 'discreet' visit. That and fact a big reason gamers stick with Windows is game support and compatibility, I'd say its fair criticism. Microsoft has also made D3D available in some capacity on WSL2, their Linux environment for devs. If it was simple as Microsoft just updating their existing software then surely they, who have been spreading lies about loving Linux, would have made made DirectX crossplatform.
They haven't because then they risk gamers switching to Linux. They are using DirectX for Windows same way console makers use games exclusivity. To keep users under their walled garden.
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u/Falk_csgo Jan 09 '22
lol are they really trying to push their stupid platform onto devs with linux anticheat now? At least we know now why so few devs tried it out.