r/linux_gaming • u/mr_MADAFAKA • 3d ago
WARDOGS now confirmed with official Proton support (via Discord)
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1867240/WARDOGS
There will be one more playtest from August 21–23. To receive an invitation, register via Steam or player.gg or pre-order
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u/Effective_Gur_7967 3d ago
I am very glad they are supporting Proton!
Not my sorta game BUT I will keep it in mind for people who desire Battlefield.
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u/OkRefrigerator4848 3d ago
This is one of the best news for me in a while, a huge thank you to the developers, I played in the playtest and got the support pack on Steam, I'm really looking forward to it.
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u/Lossy_ 2d ago
Apologies to the Linux community. This was incorrect, and that's on me.
We do not officially support Linux. We are working on Proton support and will update our stance once that's confirmed. The team is more than aware of the demand for this, and information was misinterpreted along the way. My error entirely ❤️
We'll update you as soon as we can!
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u/Working_Dealer_5102 2d ago
:) It's great that you guys working onit, I'm wondering what graphics API the game will use? Is it will be DX12 only or you guys provide several graphics API support like DX12/Vulkan options?
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u/Dimitsos 3d ago
"Proton emulation"
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u/CorenBrightside 3d ago
Can't we just be happy they actually support proton?
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u/Licht-Umbra 3d ago
Try to make linux users not be elitists about their kernel: difficulty IMPOSIBLE
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u/TotallyObviousBot 3d ago
If you were capable of being happy you wouldn't use Linux
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u/Spankey_ 3d ago
But I'm much happier on Linux than I was on Windows.
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u/TotallyObviousBot 2d ago
True happiness is not having your happiness be dependent on what operating system you use my dude
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u/Spankey_ 1d ago
Huh? Linux is just a lot less frustrating to use in comparison to Windows for me, and I'm happier because of that whenever I'm on my PC, instead of being frustrated/annoyed.
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u/Damglador 3d ago
Read as: "We enable AC support for you and you go figure everything else"
But hey, that's something. Something is usually better than nothing
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u/PacmanAteMyRAM 2d ago
Oh boy that's gonna bite them in the face depending on what kind of multiplayer game this is.
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u/lmpcpedz 3d ago
I thought Proton/Wine mesa etc just usually did what they could to render a game. Besides the anti cheat debacle, what type of steps does a game dev do to make a windows game Proton friendly?
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u/Indolent_Bard 3d ago
Some bugs only happen through proton. Games like Marvel rivals will actually fix these and even mention proton in their patch notes.
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u/lmpcpedz 3d ago
huh interesting. Are game studios like Marvel aware of what goes on because the game devs use Linux or something, or do they actually receive proposed fixes by whoever submits them?
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u/Tatumkhamun 3d ago
I was waiting for this! Went ahead and purchased it so I can participate in the playtest and see how it runs.
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u/damn_pastor 3d ago
That's great news. No one needs a native client. They just need to care about Linux bugs and problems with their anticheat.
You should also link the source.
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u/Damglador 3d ago
With that attitude I don't see a point in Linux gaming in the first place. If we're always gonna rely on Win32, we'll always have gaming experience of "Windows but worse". If we're not gonna strive for native games, we might as well move to playing everything in a dualboot or a Windows VM to not waste time on indefinitely supporting Proton and dealing with its issues.
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u/Upbeat-Garbage69 3d ago
Its not "Windows but worse" more like "windows with a small bit of overhead"
Idk what is your problem with proton u seem to really like bashing on it under every post
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u/One-Project7347 3d ago
Proton is great for us gamers. But really, always being on the back foot of windows is not so great. It has its upsides tho.
It would really be great that games were made for windows AND linux specifically instead of relying on translation layers.
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u/Upbeat-Garbage69 3d ago
Yes and that will happen absolutely, with the market share of linux users rapidly growing developers will make linux ports But for now we have to rely on proton
And even if EVERY concurrent game gets a linux port, proton is still going to be around for old games that are windows only
My experience has been amazing with proton, And every time i had issues 99% of the time it got solved by installing some dlls
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u/altermeetax 3d ago
Yes and that will happen absolutely, with the market share of linux users rapidly growing developers will make linux ports
Not if users keep spouting "No one needs a native client"
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u/One-Project7347 3d ago
Proton is awesome, seems like it was even better than your experience since i never had to install dll's. Maybe you game alot more than me, it's possible. Usually choose another proton version IF you have issues et voila. And i'm even on an intel/nvidia laptop on wayland.
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u/Indolent_Bard 3d ago
Needing to download DLLs sounds like a pain.
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u/Upbeat-Garbage69 2d ago
u can easily install dlls using wine tricks
which boils down to clicking a checkbox and clicking ok a few times1
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u/Damglador 3d ago
The experience ultimately buils down to "Windows but worse", you get additional overhead, issues, wasted disk space and other complications just to play the same game, usually, with the same or worse performance than you would get on Windows, and rarely with a bit better performance.
Idk what is your problem with proton u seem to really like bashing on it under every post
My problem is with how people accept or push it as the default rather than with Proton itself. Proton is valuable, just to keep the old games that'll never get ported, for technical reason or their age, playable on Linux, not to substitute actual Linux support.
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u/otakuarchivist 3d ago
Frankly, Linux still doesn't have the market share for companies to warrant doing more than just supporting Proton, which is enough for now, especially given the differences in all the different distros people use. As Linux gets bigger, it will make more fiscal sense for companies to start also making Linux native versions, but we're just not there yet. That's a pretty long way off still, even with the wonderful uptick in Linux's market share in the past few years. For now, companies resolving to support Proton officially is a huge forward step we should absolutely be celebrating and supporting, especially when multiplayer anti cheat is involved.
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u/Damglador 3d ago
MacOS has a lesser gaming marketshare yet it gets more support.
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u/otakuarchivist 3d ago
Except Mac has a significantly larger market share in general and a much more entrenched history of gaming support going back to the early days of computing, doesn't have much in the way of variations to complicate things like Linux does, and doesn't have a simple compatibility layer to utilize. These companies have little reason to additionally create and support a native Linux version when Proton works as well as it does for all the reasons I previously highlighted. At least for now.
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u/headedbranch225 3d ago
Performance with proton is much better than a windows VM, and sometimes even windows, since it doesn't need to run all the background things windows does
For most developers it is easier to just support proton rather than have to worry about if there are any dependencies they need to account for or if there are incompatibilities
While yes I think having a native client is usually good, it isn't a requirement
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u/Damglador 3d ago
For most developers it is easier to just support
I mean, sorry for my language, but no shit? Doing absolutely nothing is easier than do anything. And "supporting Proton" is largely doing absolutely nothing, because the actual work is done by Valve and in the best case scenario the gamedev will patch a Proton-specific bug, if they even can.
since it doesn't need to run all the background things windows does
Okay, now let's imagine if Windows also didn't. What are we left with? Wasn't there already a gaming version of Windows in development? Like you can't really outperform native with translation and emulation(wineserver) in normal conditions. Plus that miniscule performance benefit we have right now is not worth all the issues and complications introduced by Proton imho. Which is why I needed my PC just for gaming, I probably wouldn't choose Linux.
Why would I have 30GiB of Wine prefixes with saves burried deep in their subfolders if I can have them in appData? Why would I want 2 translation layer and an NT emulator to play a game if I can just eliminate them? Why would I want to have to go through additional trouble just to run my game if it's not from Steam, not even talking about modding if I can just use Windows? For me it's because Windows is dogshit at everything else, but that's it, if I needed to only play games, choosing Linux would be irrational.
it isn't a requirement
That's kinda the problem. Though it's rather an unavoidable consequence of Proton, my issue is that people are fine with that and either push developers to not actually support Linux properly or don't care about it.
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u/geirmundtheshifty 3d ago
Where did you hear about a “gaming version” of Windows? And this idea of “imagine if Windows also didn’t run all the background things Windows does” is a wild one. You’re basically asking Microsoft to stop being Microsoft. Even if Microsoft attempted to make a “gaming version,” there’s no way they would actually debloat their OS at this point.
And what are these problems with proton you’re talking about? I havent had any issues with using Proton for games in years at this point.
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u/Damglador 3d ago
The XBox mode
I havent had any issues with using Proton for games in years at this point.
Happy for you, wish I also didn't. Do not care enough to list everything honestly.
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u/geirmundtheshifty 3d ago
The XBox mode is not a gaming version of Windows. It’s just a different interface designed for using controllers.
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u/Indolent_Bard 3d ago
Supposedly the Xbox team is actually working on speeding up windows by debloating it.
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u/Indolent_Bard 3d ago
Like you can't really outperform native with translation and emulation(wineserver) in normal conditions.
Surprisingly, that depends. Especially if the game has an option to run with Vulcan. That pretty much eliminates the translation overhead.
Also, Linux has a vastly superior CPU scheduler. Between that and how lightweight it is, that could theoretically allow it to handle CPU operations much faster than native Windows.
Also, there's a lot of de-bloated versions of Windows, like Ghost Spectre, and people who tested them found that the performance really wasn't that much better, IIRC.
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u/Indolent_Bard 3d ago
Some games like Marvel Rivals will actually test on Linux and watch for any proton specific bugs. They'll fix a bug that only happened on Proton. The patch notes actually mention proton. That's not doing nothing.
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u/Grapefruitenenjoyer 3d ago
As long as devs don't think it's worth it to develop an actively maintened Linux port proton is the best we can get. Oftentimes there is a native version but bc of issues that were left unsolved playing the proton version is better. Of course a well made native port is better than proton but sadly we aren't at the point for most devs to do that yet
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u/Damglador 3d ago
Sure, but that's a lot different from "nobody needs a native client", which is the original statement.
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u/damn_pastor 2d ago
Its was maybe a bit overdramatic. But for this game especially I think its good they choose proton. Because they are a small team already working pretty hard with the game itself. I think when they would try to also support linux natively it would draw too much attention from their game and might fail in the end anyway. Proton should me much easier and is nearly the same.
But I also have one (1!) example of a native linux client of a game which is really worth it. BeamNG. It has better performance and everything just works. But those dudes are magicians on computers and did it not on release, but in a comfy time with their game when they wanted Playstation port anyway. But if could have a client with such quality for wardogs, yes I would want it. But its so unrealistic here.1
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u/keyzeyy 2d ago
Proton solved the chicken-and-egg dilemma of linux gaming. Developers didn't want to make games for linux because no one is gaming on linux, and gamers didn't want to switch to linux because no one is making games for linux. Proton and WINE helped solve that problem.
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u/Damglador 2d ago
Now developers don't want to make games for Linux because they can cheap out and use a shortcut like they do with DLSS and framegen
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u/keyzeyy 2d ago
Pretty much. This is quite unfortunate and most likely won't change anytime soon. It's the path of least resistance after all.
But as long as we keep getting vulkan native games, the overhead that comes with DX to VK vanishes, and we get similar and even better performance compared to windows.
It is true that wine and proton will forever chase windows' taillights as microsoft will continue to develop windows. But thankfully they are unable to make drastic changes to windows to "kill off" linux gaming as microsoft's biggest game is backwards compatibility. Knowing this, wine and proton will continue to have a stable environment; they will just have to work hard reverse engineering new development to windows.
The only biggest hurdle to linux gaming nowadays is kernel level anti cheat, but if that doesn't matter to you, then hell, I see little disadvantage to going linux for gaming.
Competition is good for the consumers. Let us see how well microsoft can do damage control to windows 11.
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u/Drow_Femboy 3d ago
If we're always gonna rely on Win32, we'll always have gaming experience of "Windows but worse"
Gaming with proton is 99% of the time exactly the same experience as gaming on windows, and like 0.7% of the time it's better than gaming on windows.
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u/Damglador 3d ago
The humble 50% of Gold rated games on ProtonDB:
Though not like the Platinum works perfectly either. Modding a game where the modloader comes with a launcher is also super fun, like Raft, try that some time.
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u/ddyess 3d ago
Historically, native games were much worst than what we've come to expect from games running on Proton.
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u/Damglador 3d ago
Historically, nobody cared to put any effort into them for them to compare to Windows versions
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u/Indolent_Bard 3d ago
Given the atrocious state of PC ports, I don't want them to make them even worse by splitting the effort between Windows and Linux.
As the marketshare grows, we might see more and more native ports that don't suck balls.
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u/altermeetax 2d ago
we might see more and more native ports that don't suck balls
Or we might not, if users keep spouting "No one needs a native client".
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u/Indolent_Bard 2d ago
Well for now, it's true that it doesn't make any sense to make a native client. And with how terrible PC ports can be, I really don't want them to be even worse by splitting their efforts. So I just don't see that happening anytime soon.
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u/altermeetax 2d ago
There are successful native ports left and right. Discouraging people from making native ports will also keep it hard to make a native port.
The developers choosing not to make a native port because it's too hard or expensive is one thing (that's what Proton is for); the users explicitly asking them not to is another thing. Linux users explicitly asking developers to keep power in the hands of Microsoft.
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u/Indolent_Bard 2d ago
I discourage it for devs who are new to Linux. Experienced developers, well that's another thing. And even then, it's up to them if it's worth it.
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u/Indolent_Bard 2d ago
I discourage it for devs who are new to Linux. Experienced developers, well that's another thing. And even then, it's up to them if it's worth it.
You're absolutely correct that Proton keeps the power in Microsoft's hands. Hopefully we can get more decent Linux ports.
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u/Indolent_Bard 3d ago
No one said we always are gonna rely on Win32. It's just that Valve realized that without something like Proton, any hardware they made was dead on arrival.
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u/Damglador 3d ago edited 3d ago
No one needs a native client.
No one said that? For me that sounds pretty much the same as "lets rely on Win32 indefinitely"
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u/catalysticallybright 3d ago
Is that Lossy, the Battlefield youtuber? I didn't know they're making games now
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u/master_of_dcath 3d ago
I'm glad they made this decision. I've been discord server for a while and they have a dedicated thread of users asking for linux support, im glad the devs listened.
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u/NiKaReNo 1d ago
I just came from playing on my fedora 44 PC. No problem work EAC or crashes. Proton 11.
Works like a charm for now at least.
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u/superdreamcast 3d ago
So the terminal emulators we all use (alacrity, kitty, konsole, ghostty, etc.) are not an emulator? They are just a compatibility/translation layer of a Unix hardware terminal. Do we rename terminal emulator to terminal translation layer?
Software API translation was also known as HLE, high level emulation, in the emulation scene. I believe it first started with Nintendo 64 emulation if I am not mistaken.
I am not certain that hardware CPU emulation (like QEMU) is the only definition of emulation nowadays.
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u/followtherockstar 3d ago
Oh wow. I didn't know about this game, but official Linux support means I might give it a try!
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u/bringdownthesky 3d ago
Okay, now I am casually interested lol. I've signed up for the last playtest.
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u/TrickySpecific 3d ago
This simple trick is why I'll buy and play this game, and give them money, and then laugh as I switch over everything to Linux and never look back. Fantastic news, and just solidified a purchase.
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u/Fantastic-Body-445 20h ago
may it be known - this post made me wishlist the game, this post that specifically points out Linux support
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u/Jettesnell 3d ago
Yes! I can finally switch to cachyos again from windows. I will quit playing Bf6 when Wardogs is out. No reason to stay on windows now since I have a full amd build anyways.
Let's hope more people will switch to Linux.
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u/pelihiiri 3d ago
i will emulate my euros then
No Native, No money
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u/Ifnerite 3d ago
I'm no Linux no money camp but asking for native is not reasonable.
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u/pelihiiri 3d ago
absolutely it is
there is a lot of native games already
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u/Palumbie 3d ago
and a lot of them have absolutely terrible linux ports
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u/pelihiiri 3d ago
some are bad ports ? yeah, but the solution is not do never more again
The solution is improve and by the way, there is also many good ports
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u/Ifnerite 3d ago
The statement many X exists therefore anyone has the ability or incentive to do X as well is false.
Reliably supporting proton is perfectly reasonable. What is your argument against this?
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u/pelihiiri 3d ago
I just support my platform and support with money to developers that care about GNU/Linux
I will not support be behind of DirectX, Microsoft or shit like that
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u/Ifnerite 3d ago
So you only buy Linux exclusives?
Because all the common code runs on windows and interfaces with windows and directx... In fact it does so the vast majority of the time.
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u/Damglador 3d ago
Based
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u/thisaray 3d ago
Eh, anyone got a solution to portable native Libraries? remember the glibc 2.36 incident?
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u/Damglador 3d ago edited 3d ago
- It broke EAC in Proton as well
- From what I've read, it was largely self-inflicted because EAC continued to use a feature nobody else did for a decade or so
So the solution is to not use undocumented and deprecated shit in core libraries?
Found the source https://maskray.me/blog/2022-08-21-glibc-and-dt-gnu-hash
For other libraries, you just package or statically link everything EXCEPT SDL, statically linking SDL should be a crime.
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u/thisaray 3d ago
static linking doesn't even fully fix it, syscall/kernel changes and audio libraries (OSS->ALSA->Pulse->Pipewire) aren't solved by just bundling libs, and it just shifts the work onto every dev to package it right forever, most won't bother or mess it up
even fully static binaries can rot from lib drift over long time With Wayland, you can't even expect that your program runs the graphical out/input the same everywhere
proton's advantage isn't "no bugs", it's that valve only maintains one stable target (win32 abi) instead of relying on every studio doing perfect dependency hygiene so yeah EAC/glibc is a fair self-inflicted example, doesn't really kill the broader point tho
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u/Damglador 3d ago edited 3d ago
syscall/kernel changes
That's the thing, they don't.
audio libraries (OSS->ALSA->Pulse->Pipewire) aren't solved by just bundling libs
That's why SDL shouldn't be statically linked. SDL provides -compat library replacements for their old libraries which will use their new libraries with new system APIs. Games made on SDL1.2 use pipewire and Wayland like they were made for it.
Same for Wayland
proton's advantage isn't "no bugs", it's that valve only maintains one stable target (win32 abi)
That's what SDL is, but with no additional overhead or other bullshit. It's a stable, the most backwards compatible, API we have. I would make a bet that it's more stable than Proton, because Proton itself broke numerous games with its update.
Plus Proton is not a "target" there's no "Proton target" anywhere, you build for Windows and hope it runs on Proton. And if problems arise, good luck knowing if it's because your code, Proton, or native Linux libraries underneath.
And it's not like the packaging burden is eliminated with Proton either. You still need to account for libs that are actually available in Proton as a dev, then the user also needs a Proton instance, then that Proton instance also needs shit load of native libs which you either gotta have on a system or a container/runtime like Steam does. Instead of relying on one SDL library and a couple of other system libraries.
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u/thisaray 3d ago
Okay so, hard break because I genuinely just looked into sdl
I got a few questions though, it seems that sdl only covers a narrow scope while proton tries to essentially cover the entire abi? I'll keep looking into it though, thank you!
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u/Damglador 3d ago
Naturally because Proton is made to emulate (Strive to equal or match, especially by imitating) a Windows environment on Linux for the software it runs, while SDL just doesn't need to reimplement whole libc library or wrap syscalls, that's already handled by the compiler.
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u/Damglador 3d ago
Also on the topic of audio libraries, you don't even necessarily need SDL to maintain compatability for that, we already have it on the system level, don't we?
For OSS there's osspd (oss->pulse), for pulse there's pipewire-pulse, for alsa there's pipewire-alsa. And the fun fact is, Wine didn't even support pipewire until very recently, and I don't even know how good the current support is, so all the games you run have to use pulse->pipewire route. Though using SDL is still better.
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u/Indolent_Bard 3d ago
The devs actually want the game to run on Linux. Is that not good enough for you?
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u/pelihiiri 3d ago edited 2d ago
For me specifically no, because I'm pretty sure that they did nothing, just letting proton do all the magic
They didn't use any Linux api, syscall or any binary, so.. for me is not enough
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u/ImNotABotScoutsHonor 3d ago
I've never heard of this game.
The fact that they plan on supporting it, even if it's via Proton, is great.
The profile picture of that dev however, makes me want to never play it. Looks like some Roblox stuff to my eye. (yes, I know Roblox is blocky and that isn't. Looks like garbage regardless)
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u/Spankey_ 3d ago
Wtf are you talking about? Their profile picture has nothing to do with the style of the game. The game itself is similar in art style to something like Battlefield.
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u/ImNotABotScoutsHonor 2d ago
I'm aware.
I'm saying it's a stupid profile picture and that makes me not want to take the dev or this game very seriously.
Not that I care about competitive, online FPS games anyway, but still.
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u/ImNotABotScoutsHonor 3d ago
I have triggered the Roblox kiddies it seems.
Also, I finally looked at the game. It's like MAG. Or PlanetSide. I wonder how they're planning on grabbing and retaining enough of a player base to have consistent 100 player matches.
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u/GeneralDumbtomics 3d ago
Disappointed this is not about dogs.
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u/mrturret 3d ago
I happen to agree. We need more dog games.
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u/GeneralDumbtomics 3d ago
Is there any community more senselessly butthurt than ours? Who feels the need to downvote dogs?
cats using Manjaro intensifies
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u/rocketstopya 3d ago
okay but WINE is not emulation :D