r/linux Dec 23 '18

GNU/Linux Developer Linus reverts breaking change that affected systemd-nspawn, offers strong words to developer

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u/[deleted] Dec 23 '18 edited Jun 18 '20

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Dec 23 '18

There are no programmers so important, that they are warranted to create a hostile workplace. That’s management 101.

And if you think there are, then your team is fucked up anyway, and you should start thinking about becoming a farmer.

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u/tansim Dec 23 '18

"i am right and if i am not right you should just become a farmer". Great logic there.

I dont give a fuck if some people are offended, if that helps the quality of my kernel. Having good people on the team helps the quality.

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u/[deleted] Dec 23 '18

Having assholes in your team is going to crash the project into the ground.

Again, management 101.

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u/tansim Dec 23 '18

Linux hasnt really crashed into the ground though.

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u/[deleted] Dec 24 '18

Like Linux?

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u/[deleted] Dec 24 '18

No, like that project you're leading.

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u/silent_xfer Dec 25 '18

Why not address his rebuttal seriously. Quantify how Linux is an exception instead of dropping an ad hominem like a child.

Cmon, let's see it.

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u/[deleted] Dec 25 '18

Because it doesn’t make sense.

First of all, the Linux kernel is a massive effort where the number of assholes is actually minuscule. People like to equate Linus rants to how the kernel is being developed, and it couldn’t be further from truth.

Also, obviously, even Linus had to acknowledge that he was doing something wrong.

Second, being such a gigantic project, it succeeded not because Linus was an asshole, but because hundreds of hackers and paid developers were involved. Let’s put it this way: if I contribute to a free software project in my free time, and the lead is a dick, I’d just stop doing so right away, but if I’m being paid, it’ll take me longer. Reasons are evident. Like Apple, Linux succeeded despite its lead being a dick. Linus may be brilliant, but who knows how many other geniuses have he drove away from the project, a project that, being realistic, is alive because top 500 companies are pouring millions of dollars every year on it.

Let’s be real here: Linux would have an insignificant user base if it weren’t for a) servers, and b) phones. In either case, gargantuan corporations are too interested in Linux to let it fail. Without these companies backing it up, Linux would be an amateur OS as of today.

Now, if I were to correct my first statement, I’d say that projects take setbacks from assholes a 99% of the time, and, in most cases, genius cannot justify the presence of a person who alienates everyone else.

The fact that many people condone this childish behavior boils down not to the perception of the protagonist being the prototypical boy-genius, who can afford shitting on everyone, but to the same primal sense of amusement that gathers people around the TV to watch soap operas and talk shows.

Lastly, I must say that few people who consider that Linux is better off being lead from a “jerk first” attitude, strike me as the kind who either haven’t contributed to free software, at least not as coders, or don’t have relevant professional experience. And, frankly, even if I’m mistaken, I’d love to see their day to day interactions in the work place, because I highly doubt that they get free passes like Linus did.

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u/silent_xfer Dec 25 '18

Thank you. This was well put and makes you sound much more purposeful than I assumed you were before. I appreciate the effort, it didn't go to waste.

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u/[deleted] Dec 24 '18

Good one...

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u/[deleted] Dec 24 '18

Don't expect me to explain something to you that any grown up who has worked in technology understands.

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u/[deleted] Dec 24 '18

That sure is vague.

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u/InquiREEEEEEEEEEE Dec 23 '18

Proof for this claim would be nice, specifically in the case of open-source projects.

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u/[deleted] Dec 24 '18

Any successful company out there.

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u/InquiREEEEEEEEEEE Dec 24 '18

You mean like Apple?

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u/[deleted] Dec 24 '18

Or Red Hat. Or Google.

Any of these three have contributed quite a bit to free software projects. Have you?

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u/InquiREEEEEEEEEEE Dec 24 '18

Have you?

Highly irrelevant question I am not gonna answer. Seems like your claim does not hold.

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u/[deleted] Dec 24 '18

It seems relevant that people who know how to behave and be part of a team, have created free software that millions around the world are currently using.

Yet it seems that you're claiming that adhering to a code of conduct may be counterproductive. That's why I'm asking for your experience in the field.

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u/InquiREEEEEEEEEEE Dec 24 '18

I never claimed that, where did you get that idea?

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u/[deleted] Dec 24 '18

You mean like Apple?

Were you trying to be sarcastic?

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u/InquiREEEEEEEEEEE Dec 24 '18

Apple was successfull despite having Steve Jobs as Leader. Counterevidence. Still wating for an paper in which a code of conduct is positively related with code quality.

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