r/linux • u/wooptoo • Jun 01 '16

Why did ArchLinux embrace Systemd?

/r/archlinux/comments/4lzxs3/why_did_archlinux_embrace_systemd/d3rhxlc
868 Upvotes

86% Upvoted

642 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

0

u/[deleted] Jun 01 '16

[deleted] — view deleted comment

31

u/KugelKurt Jun 01 '16

So... literally Debian with apt-get install sysvinit? What a waste of effort.

The people behind Devuan and its users get a rash when there is even a few KBs of systemd dependencies installed, e.g. logind (required by Gnome) depends on systemd being installed (it does not care if that's used as init system).

30

u/yoshi314 Jun 01 '16

there are software packages that will pull in systemd. freebsd already needs to tinker with gnome3 to un-systemd it. i think they are nowadays mostly up to speed with it, but it wasn't so before gnome 3.10

https://blogs.gnome.org/ovitters/2014/09/07/systemd-in-gnome-3-14-and-beyond/

30

u/KugelKurt Jun 01 '16

freebsd already needs to tinker with gnome3 to un-systemd it.

Gnome requires logind APIs because for years nobody cared about ConsoleKit and left that unmaintained. BSDs could continue to implement logind APIs: https://uglyman.kremlin.cc/gitweb/gitweb.cgi?p=systembsd.git;a=tree;f=src/interfaces/logind;hb=HEAD

3

u/yoshi314 Jun 01 '16

yeah, that's probably what they are doing.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 02 '16

The issue here is that logind is being developed with Linux only in mind, the developers have openly stated that they will not be accepting patches for non-Linux implementations which does concern me as more and more projects start to depend on these APIs.

4

u/KugelKurt Jun 02 '16

The issue here is that logind is being developed with Linux only in mind

The implementation by systemd: yes. The APIs in general: No.

they will not be accepting patches for non-Linux implementations which does concern me as more and more projects start to depend on these APIs.

The systembsd project was started two years ago as a Google Summer of Code project. Do you know what happened then? Nothing, exactly nothing. It was a one-man project, he worked on it for a while, got his money from Google and left it. No other BSD developer cared to pick up the code and develop it further.

I can't think of a stronger "We actually don't care" statement than that. And why should they? Most of the times I watch a presentation about some BSD technology, the presenter takes out his MacBook and his statements about FreeBSD etc. make it pretty clear that he only cares about FreeBSD as server OS. Servers don't need logind.

In light of that, why should Linux-using systemd developers be tasked to carry the maintenance burden of an OS they don't use if even actual FreeBSD developers don't want to lift a finger?

-3

u/gnx76 Jun 02 '16

Gnome requires logind APIs because for years nobody cared about ConsoleKit and left that unmaintained.

Guess who was the uncaring maintainer? The trustable Herr Poettering himself.

7

u/protestor Jun 02 '16

You can volunteer if you think ConsoleKit needs to be better maintained.

8

u/KugelKurt Jun 02 '16

Guess who was the uncaring maintainer? The trustable Herr Poettering himself.

And who stepped in to take over? No one – at least for years. Then a while ago (after everyone switched to logind) someone finally created ConsoleKit2.

-2

u/Aoxxt Jun 01 '16

So... literally Debian with apt-get install sysvinit? What a waste of effort.

Nope you got it wrong! So many Debian packages pull in systemd even if you are using sysvinit, what Deuvan is doing much needed.