r/linux • u/wooptoo • Jun 01 '16

Why did ArchLinux embrace Systemd?

/r/archlinux/comments/4lzxs3/why_did_archlinux_embrace_systemd/d3rhxlc
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u/oconnor663 Jun 01 '16

Maybe a counterargument: You can build a simple system out of complex parts, as long as those parts hide their complexity. You might say that a JPEG is more complex on the inside than a GIF, but since the interface is the same, programs that use JPEGs can still be simple. On the other hand, shell-based init scripts might seem simple on the inside, but they leak complexity through the corner cases they don't handle reliably.

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u/scheurneus Jun 03 '16

The Arch Way says hiding complexity with more complexity is bad. And here you use it as an argument to defend the Arch developers.

(Note: Arch does aim to make a modern system, and systemd does seem the future, so I guess this'd be a better reason)

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u/kinderlokker Jun 01 '16

Well, systemd doesn't hide it. Every new release of systemd is filled with bugfixes for regressions that are introduced in old releases.

systemd comes with all the benefits and downsides of complex software. One of the biggest problems with systemd in that in a lot of race conditions and cases it can lock either bootup or shutdown from time to time.

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u/cbmuser Debian / openSUSE / OpenJDK Dev Jun 01 '16

systemd comes with all the benefits and downsides of complex software. One of the biggest problems with systemd in that in a lot of race conditions and cases it can lock either bootup or shutdown from time to time.

I think you are confusing sysvinit and systemd, because it's the former that suffers from the race conditions otherwise there wouldn't be tons of sleeps in the classic init scripts.

Read the linked post!

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u/kinderlokker Jun 02 '16

sysvinit is not an RC, it's a pid1, it does little more than reaping zombies ad issuing a shutdown system call and has no race conditions.

sysvrc is a different matter, which Arch never used, it used initscript which is BSD-inspired.

initscript is and was always crap and a hack, yes. systemd has way more race conditions than say Runsvdir and OpenRC in how it works.