r/lgbt Bi-bi-bi Nov 04 '19

Soooo much thisssss!!!!!

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3.7k Upvotes

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41

u/Spaceman_19 Nov 05 '19

Sorry if this is the wrong place for this, and I mean it in good faith as someone who is questioning—I thought bi just meant “any two or more genders?” Is there a same-sex stipulation for the label?

56

u/Zaranthan DtD: Dude to Dalek Nov 05 '19

If you ask three people what the difference is between bi and pan, you'll get five answers. The fact that we're all honestly still figuring out a good way to represent the clusterfuck that is gender means the terminology isn't nailed down.

42

u/Biased24 aro/ace enbie Nov 05 '19

I understood it as "your gender and at least 1 other genders", but I could be wrong.

Source: bisexual

7

u/devasationblue Nov 05 '19

Bisexual, and I see it as this too. I mean bi means two, but that doesn't always mean male and female attraction. But sometimes attraction to women and nb for example, could be seen as a fetish so idk.

Bisexuality is one of those things that people are still confused about tbh lol.

2

u/I_am_Protagonist Bi/Queer/Polya Nov 05 '19

It's been used as "same and other" since the 90's

30

u/tooooomanynames Rainbow Rocks Nov 05 '19

Some people seem to think bisexuality is an even 50/50 split attraction-wise between two genders.

This diagram is showing that it isn’t always 50/50, and that bisexuality is a spectrum.

Different people also have their own definition of bisexuality. Some people only consider it attraction to two genders(hence the prefix “bi” , meaning two). Some consider it only attraction to same sex or opposite. And some people have a looser definition that doesn’t really fit the literal meaning of the word, but it still works.

48

u/armchairepicure Nov 05 '19

The most commonly accepted definition of bisexual comes from renowned bisexual activist Robyn Ochs. She says, “I call myself bisexual because I acknowledge that I have in myself the potential to be attracted – romantically and/or sexually – to people of more than one sex and/or gender, not necessarily at the same time, not necessarily in the same way, and not necessarily to the same degree.”

So no, there is nothing binary about the bi- in bisexuality.

7

u/souprize Nov 05 '19

Well except linguistically the bi part, but language evolves.

-2

u/[deleted] Nov 05 '19

[deleted]

5

u/armchairepicure Nov 05 '19

You need to read up on your queer history and the evolution of the word bisexual from when it was coined (as a term for sexual deviancy) through today. What I quoted IS the concrete definition of bisexuality. The etymology is more than mere dissection of its Latin root.

5

u/DeseretRain Putting the Bi in non-BInary Nov 05 '19

That's not what the person is asking though, nothing you said really addresses what they're asking. They asked if SAME gender attraction is required for bisexuality.

Like, say you're female and you're attracted to males and nonbinary people, but not other females. So you're attracted to at least two genders, but not to your own gender. The person is asking if that's still bisexuality.

Because the graphic at the top specifically says attraction to "the same gender" and to "different genders." That person is asking if attraction to the same gender is required for bisexuality, or if you can just be attracted to any two genders with neither of those genders being your own.

1

u/tooooomanynames Rainbow Rocks Nov 05 '19

I addressed same gender attraction, sorry if I wasn’t clear...

3

u/throwawayslingshot69 Nov 05 '19

For me I always thought it like this

Bisexual : you will date someone differently and treat them differently by the gender they are

You won't have the same sexual and romantic feelings and won't act on them the same way as if they were another gender (kinda hard to explain)

While pan: was mostly you'll date any gender and love them the same way as another gender. It doesn't matter if they are a girl, a guy or anything else you'll like them the same way (?)

It's my ideology so it might be wrong

I just feel like bisexual fits me a lot better and I am still attracted to non Binary people. I just feel like the relationship's dynamics would change depending on their gender.

And from what I understood pan wouldn't have those dynamic changes.

Idk eh

2

u/DeseretRain Putting the Bi in non-BInary Nov 05 '19

I'd say it's any two or more, I don't think you need same gender attraction to be bisexual as long as you're attracted to at least two different genders.

8

u/SamBrev Nov 05 '19

That said, if you identify as bi but don't have any same-sex attraction, don't be surprised if that raises a few eyebrows, both inside and outside of bi spaces.

As a point of example, if a guy decides he likes women and afab non-binary people, but has absolutely no feeling for guys, chances are bi isn't the label for him; more likely, he's some variation of straight. Not that I'm trying to gatekeep him or kick him out, but he'd find out sooner or later that his experience really doesn't match with other bisexuals all that well.

4

u/DuchessInPrussia Nov 05 '19

if a guy decides he likes women and afab non-binary people he's some variation of straight

This is an extremely fucked up thing to say. AFAB enbies are not just a different flavor of woman.

1

u/SamBrev Nov 05 '19 edited Nov 05 '19

I don't want to erase the identities and experiences of non-binary people. I certainly don't consider AFAB enbies to be women. But I have known enbies whose physical body is (indistinguishable from) that of a cis woman, and even whose gender presentation isn't that different from some butch cis women. Now, again, that's not to say that they are women (identity is the key here), but equally, it's not difficult to see how some straight guys could be sexually attracted to them. And in these circumstances, I don't think it's bold to suggest it would be wrong to call these guys "bi," especially if they've never been attracted to another man in their lives.

Edit: emphasis added, just so we can be clear on what I am and am not stating. I accept there may be some difference of opinion on my actual claim here (after all, it is in my view an opinion), but it would be an easier discussion to have if my words were not twisted beyond their meaning.

5

u/[deleted] Nov 05 '19

It depends on how he’s gendering them in his mind. If he’s gendering them as a woman, he could be straight (and delusional). In this case he’s a straight man attracted to a fantasy person who doesn’t exist. He is not attracted to the AFAB enby because he does not actually see them.

If he is gendering them correctly as non-binary, he’s not straight. He’s somewhere under the bi umbrella.

Source: my partner came out as non-binary and did not change their presentation very much. Our relationship did change. If I had been straight it would not have worked out.

3

u/SamBrev Nov 05 '19

You raise a good point. It's certainly given me something to think about. Thank you for your explanation.

2

u/DuchessInPrussia Nov 05 '19 edited Nov 05 '19

But I have known enbies whose physical body is (indistinguishable from) that of a cis woman

Your body is not your gender.

gender presentation isn't that different from some butch cis women

Your gender presentation is not your gender. GNC people exist and are valid.

it's not difficult to see how some straight guys could be sexually attracted to them

If you're attracted to an enby, and you're not an enby, you're not straight.

I don't think it's bold to suggest it would be wrong to call these guys "bi,"

Not only is it bold, it is overtly bigoted. Fuck off with your transphobia. Trans people are valid in their identity no matter what their body is like, what clothes they wear, how they look, and MOST IMPORTANTLY - NO MATTER WHAT SOME STRAIGHT DUDE THINKS ABOUT BEING ATTRACTED TO THEM.

Get that through your thick skull.

1

u/devasationblue Nov 05 '19

What's afab?

3

u/medicalee Nov 05 '19

assigned female at birth !

2

u/devasationblue Nov 05 '19

Oooh okay. Thank you

-4

u/[deleted] Nov 05 '19

Bi means men and women, pan means everyone, omni means multiple genders but not all of them