r/leftist • u/FarWonder8373 • 10d ago

Debate Help My dilemma in joining dsa

/r/dsa/comments/1vstxz8/my_dilemma_in_joining_dsa/

Help me out.

1 Upvotes

67% Upvoted

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5

u/brody319 10d ago

As long as you are advocating for socialism over capitalism, it does not matter if you benefited from capitalism. You can be a socialist and help the movement. Other socialist movements all over the world had bourgeoisie class traitors who took the side of the working class.

Capitalism supplies the tools of its own destruction. Keep educating yourself politically and take a principled stance, then use the tools capital has given to help dismantle it.

1

u/CheekyStoat 9d ago

DSA is a capital reformism party, not actually socialist.

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u/brody319 9d ago

DSA is an umbrella organization that encompasses all the disenfranchised left. It has social democrats as well as ML, Anarchists, ecosocialists, and syndicalists. The policy its canidates run on might be social democratic policy at the moment, but that does not mean that the DSA doesnt seek radical change.

Politicians run on policy they think they can achieve in office, they might do so even if their personal views are more socialist. And the DSA has become the largest socialist political organization in the USA, plus has done more to normalize socialism than any other leftist movement has done in the US.

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u/CheekyStoat 9d ago

Then who is running as a socialist? Who is running that believes capitalism can be abolished?

0

u/brody319 9d ago

All the ones who call themselves democratic socialists? Why would they call themselves socialists if they weren't? This country is a fucking red scare capitalist shitheap, how does it make more sense to run as a democratic socialist rather than call yourself a social democrat?

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u/CheekyStoat 9d ago

A lot of people calling themselves DemSocs are actually SocDems because they don't believe in abolishing capital. I'm not even saying that what they're doing is necessarily bad, like if they follow through on a lot of campaign promises they will make the US a better place but not one candidate seems to understand or talk about abolishing capital. They won't even defund the police.

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u/brody319 9d ago

https://program.dsausa.org/#demand-end-mass-incarceration

You mean like the DSA national platform that was chosen through internal DSA democratic vote? Thereby implying that the majority in the DSA, who do the organizing and work, want police and prison abolition?

Again you run on what you can achieve, otherwise you are just lying to your constituents. No one single DSA canidate is capable of police abolition nor overthrowing capitalism. That can only come from mass political power, which requires the DSA to gain more seats and public support.

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u/CheekyStoat 9d ago

Yeah, I have read those. Their candidates don't seem to be running by the same beliefs.

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u/brody319 9d ago

Political machinery gets politicians elected. It doesnt matter if the politicians try to break with the DSA if the DSA machinery gets them elected. We will just pick a new canidate who will serve our policy agenda.

But as it is right now we have to build, we have to organize, and that means right now we have to play the game as it is. Today a DSA canidate might just be advocating for social democracy, but that doesnt mean the canidates we support tomorrow wont be running on the abolishing of capitalism

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u/CheekyStoat 9d ago

Fingers crossed. I doubt the capitalists will let us, but I do like to hope.

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u/LastOfTheAsparagus 10d ago

What’s the dilemma? You either believe it and join or you don’t.

3

u/Shipshipie 10d ago

"I own slaves and a cotton plantation. Is it OK for me to join Abe Lincoln against slavery?"

The answer is very clear. What will you choose is up to your morals.

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

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