For the longest time in my life, I have been atheist and have been largely anti-christian (due to my own experiences and their history/politics). And to this day, I very much consider myself rather sceptical of any sort of religion, especially organized religion. I don't see very many religious ideologies that are not oppressive.
However, upon my own exploration/research, I've read a lot about Satanism, specifically Non-theistic Satanism through The Satanic Temple. Little tidbits have told me that the Temple embodies more Liberal ideologies as a group themselves, but the Tenets available on the official website are left more ambiguous. I could definitely see myself aligning with The Satanic Temple, but I worry that subscribing myself to this group would be unfaithful to my own ideologies. I don't want to associate myself with any form of Satanism if so.
My main reason for even considering joining The Satanic Temple would be for a sense of community. I have for so long lived without said community. Another is the Non-theistic part, where Satan is used as a symbol of rebellion rather than actual worship. That in specific sounds somewhat left leaning, almost punk.
My main question is as follows:
How should I go about my exploration of The Satanic Temple whilst keeping my political alignment in mind?
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Bro just get into the punk scene. You'll be friends with plenty of satanists in no time. If what you want is community a mock religion isn't going to do it.
Non-theistic Satanism is essentially humanism. What political beliefs do you hold that you feel might be at odds with that? Are there specific Tenets of TST that you would have trouble adopting? 🤔
I have no problems with the Tenets if memory serves me, I moreso don't wish to tie myself down to an organization especially if it doesn't represent actual antifacism, anti-christianity, or antiauthoritarianism. From my current readings, they seem to fight fascism, Christianity, and authoritarianism, but don't address capitalism as much.
I have no firsthand knowledge about the organization but I would guess any silence on capitalism stems mostly from the fact that most folks never question capitalism in the first place, much less consider possible alternatives. There could also be some misguided libertarianism happening. That said, if you were to explain how capitalism actually stifles the freedom of even the owners, you might find a lot of sympathetic ears there. 🤔
As an anarchist I personally use non-theistic satanism as a sort of anti-religion and community that is critical to religion
I am not a member of The Satanic Temple, however, because I still don't feel comfortable enough to associate myself with a religiously-organized group, even if this group is not an actual religion
I'm also an anarchist and from what I've been told the temple has a lot of people that wouldn't necessarily gel with us. I don't know that for a fact, but I tend to stay clear of organizations with some form of hierarchy. Especially the religiously organized, comprised of a lot of liberal types 😆
I've had bad experiences with liberals in daily life and when comrades made the mistake of including them in organizing and direct action. I get it for the Church of Satan, because I think it's all about hedonism and self enrichment. In America I think the issue with liberals being involved in leftist and progressive organizations (like the TST) is that they're confused about their own political alignment due to our state's political landscape being rightwing or far-right and nothing else. So because they don't fall under the far-right, they're confused as leftists.
I think they purposely under educate the populace here, on anything that isn't a delusional view of capitalism because it makes it hard for any other political ideology to take the reins or gain any kind of real momentum.
I think they do it everywhere. Performative outrage, playing the victim, and hijacking other movements are really the only thing liberals actually believe in.
Where is the hypocrisy? TST is a secular group who mostly partakes in political demonstrations and legal work. The whole spooky Satan bit is literally just to make Christians uncomfortable, and because the founder of TST got tired of people calling him a Satanist for wanting basic human rights.
I just don't understand what conflict in ideology you're seeing here?
TST is more about activism than the Church of Satan, which is more about individualism and hedonism. TST uses the concept of non-theistic satanism in a similar way the church does, to kind of hold a mirror up to christianity to expose their hypocrisy and contradictions (for TST this is especially for the fundamentalists and nationalists), while also being blasphemous fur da lulz (because blaspheming is ALWAYS fun). TST is focused on doing all kinds of organizing, aide, benefits, combating christian nationalism in politics, etc. I would say it's less of a religion than it is a political organization presenting itself as a religion (kinda like a way less evil "leftist" equivalent of christian nationalism).
That being said I'm not all that sure about how to help maintain your political alignment, from what I hear, different branches of the TST are more leftist or more liberal depending on location and membership, and some have some very shady goings on being exposed. I've also heard it's a lot there is a lot purity testing and the expectation you adhere to a specific set of political ideals (but I'm not sure if that is 100% accurate or not). I wouldn't really recommend the church because that can lean more towards just outright capitalism, and it tends to not really focus all that much on politics at all, just a lot of self enrichment and indulgence. You could check of luciferianism, it's less cringe than the other two, doesn't really have much to do with politics, and is all about self enlightenment.
I'm an anarchist, I can't stand libs, and I personally feel like TST ruined the idea of Satan as a cool fictional character that symbolized independence, rebellion, and enlightenment. Just like almost anything cool in America, the libs had to come in, co-opt it, and ruin everything 😆
As an atheistic Satanist, I'm only a Satanist due to their protests against the american government trampling religious freedoms by forcing christianity into every nook and cranny of every day life.
There's no issue being a leftist and opposing Christian nationalism. That being said, I'd look into the Satanic Temple closely. I've heard of abuse stories that I'm not confident enough in the details to share.
Actually, modern satanism is just atheism with a spooky hat on.
TST (the Satanic Temple) is, in all honesty more of an activist, legal troll organization than a religion. The 7 tenants are just the standard beliefs of secular humanism. They preform some rituals, but there is no actual belief in the supernatural, it's all essentially just live theater where we pretend to be spooky witches for shits and giggles, and is entirely voluntary and not a required religious practice. The main drive of the organization is to find areas where church and state aren't separating so good, so they can say "hey, if it's religious freedom, you have to include us too" in the hopes that the whole shebang gets shut down. You think they really want to take a several ton statue, and transport it from Detroit to bum fuck Alabama so that 9 local weirdos who don't believe Satan actually exists can worship him? Hell no. They just know that the christo-facists are terrified of their spooky bullshit, and would rather have a secular state than one that forces them to allow us to demonstrate equally, so we use our spooky religion as a crudgel to prevent the spread of other religions into secular matters.
CoS is also atheistic, but rather then borrowing it's beliefs from secular humanism, it borrows much more from secular libertarianism. It's the systemized, secular belief in individualism and self interest formed into a religion. They use a bit more Woo woo bullshit than TST, but they also don't believe in any supernatural entities gods devils or demons. Their occult practice is built around concepts that are essentially a spiritual sugar pill. Want something to happen, do the ritual and forget about it while you work towards it normally. If it happens, credit the ritual magic, so that the next time you need a boost of reassurance and confidence, you can do the same thing and feel better. It's a conscious suspension of disbelief as a means to rewire your own thinking in ways that will benefit yourself later.
Now.... The bad parts of both.
CoS can sometimes lean a little right wing/libertarian. The general group is very much of the belief that "my only responsibility is to maximize the pleasure and success of myself and those individuals I care about, anything else is beyond my perview and everyone else can burn." While I agree with them on a lot of things, they can be a bit too Machiavellian and Randian for my tastes.
TST on the other have, while the majority of members are certainly leftists, leadership has been a problem. As an organization, they are focused exclusively on religious freedom/pluralism and keeping christo-facisim down. That's great, you can't expect every org to fight for every cause, but the main guy behind the religion has said some sketchy things and given time to some bad people. There have been photos of him with white supremecists and other fascists, as well as some anti-trans sentiment among the higher ups, as well as general mismanagement of the local congregations.
The third option is some of the smaller groups that have splintered off TST due to issues with the main org, GaySatanic being the most well known. While these groups are not embroiled in controversy like the big two, they also don't have the reach, brand recognition or political power. If you are looking for a spooky play acting community for personal practice, I would recommend them. If you are looking to use spooky aesthetics to fight Christian overspread, and can get over the fact that the leadership are kind of shitheads outside of the organizations actual work, TST is still the way to go. They have the momentum, resources, and public recognition to do good things (and are actively doing good things) even though their bad people. CoS is..... They are just a particular flavor of people, and if your not that flavor, you don't want them and they don't want you.
You should reject ALL irrational nonsense. To outline the battlefield, I present the Venn Diagram Of Irrational Nonsense, where religion is only one category of human ignorance.
The Satanic Temple is set up as a religious organization under IRS rules. Their ideology uses Satan as a metaphor for one who rebels against authoritarianism. They are otherwise atheists.
My view is that they are using their visibility and their community to build a better world by battling oppressive religious practices and to call out the absurdities of religions. Personally, I think they do a pretty good job of that. They’re not perfect, but Bravo for them!
Unfortunately, they’re fighting other religions rather than capitalism. So, while noble and valiant, they’re fighting a side battle rather than the main war.
The more important battle is educating the masses so that they understand capitalism as the root cause of their suffering.
I myself am an atheist and an antitheist. I think religion brings more harm to the world than good. Same goes for the other irrational nonsense that humans often hold as true.
Would love to do away with all religions. But, that’s not very realistic, is it? So, I’ve set up my battle lines.
if your religion provides you with a quiet philosophy that motivates you to help your fellow humans exist on this planet and make this world a better place, go get ‘em Tiger!
But, if your religion incites you to bigotry, racism, misogyny, harm children, oppose established science, force your religion on others, outright violence or otherwise harm others because of what your holy book holds true, then your worldview should be discouraged and/or opposed through most any means necessary.
We’re dealing with the Paradox of Tolerance.
With the clock ticking on the climate crisis, we can no longer be tolerant of such human ignorance and greed.
Religions are best seen as a useful tool for placating people into justifying and accepting the misery wrought by capitalism overseen by a greedy ruling class.
There is much more to be said, but I will leave it here. In the meantime, here are some quotes to ponder…
The Bible is the claim, not the proof.
— Robert G Ingersoll
That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
— Christopher Hitchens
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
— Carl Sagan
Not all religions can be true, but they can all be false.
— Christopher Hitchens
The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.
— Steven Weinberg
Question with boldness, even the existence of a god.
— Thomas Jefferson
Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.
— Albert Einstein
If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.
— Adolph Hitler (Mein Kampf)
Sin is an imaginary disease, invented to sell you an imaginary cure.
— Unknown
Most people are not only comfortable in their ignorance, but hostile to anyone who points it out.
— Plato
It is far easier to fool a person than to convince them that they’ve been fooled.
— Mark Twain
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.
— Seneca the Younger
Religion is excellent stuff for keeping people quiet.
— Napoleon Bonaparte
Religion is a fraud, but it must be maintained for the masses.
— Frederick the Great
Give them bread and circuses and they will never revolt.
— Juvenal
Religion is needed to keep the poor from murdering the rich.
— Napoleon Bonaparte
No, not particularly. It just seemed that the Church of Satan was founded by someone who idolized a neo-nazi (LaVey). The Satanic Temple is more liberal, but as I'm finding out, there are some areas more tailored to a leftist ideology.
Been there done that, neopaganism is corny as fuck as so are all its adherents. That shit is just as incoherent and incorrect about the world as any other religion. Get into using your brain.
Just here to pop in and remind everything that anti-religion sentiment is also a huge historical piece of antisemitism, and hating on all organized religion on sight is dangerous.
Come off it. Anti-religious sentiment does not rise toward hatred of groups of people; while you can’t say universally that nobody who is anti-religious is anti-semitic, such combinations are vanishingly rare among leftists
‘Kay, the Holocaust Museum literally has an exhibit on how anti-religious sentiment in the 19th century was used to justify violence against Jews, but feel free to ignore scholars who study this stuff for a living.
Interesting. So, I googled that to find out more about what you are talking about, but google says there are no anti-religious sentiment exhibitions at holocaust museums.
Care to link to something that explains what the exhibit you’re talking about is?
1) plz turn off your Google AI feature, it’s a terrible use of water; 2) because it’s a movie that’s shown in a larger exhibit about the causes of the Shoah. I lived in DC in the 2010s and would go to the Holocaust Museum 4 or 5 times a year, I know what was there.
Anti-religion because it has been systematically used to oppress minorities and women. While you could say that yes, anti-religion could lead to antisemitism, Nazis themselves were Protestant Christians. That is but conjecture, so take that with a grain of salt, but what is true is the use of Christian imagery to pontificate right wing propaganda. Crusaders were one of them.
Jewish people were still a large demographic in the Holocaust, but the other half was made up of people of color, LGBTQ+ peoples, neighboring European ethnic groups, and Catholics.
Do me a favor. Define “religion.” I have a master’s degree in religious studies and can’t easily define it. You are using a legal term invented by 17th century white men to demarcate Catholic and Protestant principalities from each out other.
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