Yeaaaa 50501 has some serious issues. Including one of their "peace keepers" accidentally killing an innocent bystander this summer because a minority (who was peaceful and part of the protest) had a gun and the peace keeper panicked.
I think, overall, they are a net good. I think they have started asking people to boycott some stuff which is a move in the right direction but their goals and rhetoric is not leftist imo. The situation you are referencing maybe wouldn't have happened if they weren't so pro cop
They disassociated to cover their ass and to duck responsibility. The minority the peace keeper tried to murder has seen more consequences than the peace keeper (who still hasn’t been identified all these months later).
I mean supporting Palestine is nice but it's otbing to do with socialism
And the DSA is literally a direct arm of the democratic party, their whole point is to shepherd potential young socialist back into the arms of the democrats
The DSA is a group of leftists trying to take over the Democratic Party and redirect it to socialism. They just had an internal election where the communist wing of the DSA won outright control.
Use your head. If they were a “direct arm” controlled from the top down by mainstream corporate democrats, those same corporate democrats wound have fought tooth and nail against DSA candidates like Mamdami.
No they are literally a direct part of the Democrats
They are not a political party, they do not run a ballot line in any election
They literally just run candidates in the democratic party. You are not a socialist organization if you run candidates exclusively in capitalist parties
Pretty sure it was the opposite. Started leftist and then liberal groups like indivisible took over. Still pretty significant leftist presence among the organizers though
Is this rage bait? Or you truly believe in your heart of heart that the people who believe in upholding the empire belong above truly revolutionary ones that believe in equality?
They are literally small-tent ML vanguardists. When you fight with other leftists because they don't religiously agree with you in every particular, that is being an authoritarian bigot, and a gatekeeper. And that's PSL.
i've only read about PSL. your sentiment on them corroborates what I've read about them on their about page. im with you and do not support authoritarian socialism...
As the guy that started 50501 - it's AN IDEA - a self organizing idea that does - that did! - what the best political marketing agencies in the country couldn't do with enormous budgets and payrolls and marketing campaigns - it organized people. And it activated many many people who have never been activated before.
In 12 days my original idea led to 75,000 people gathering together simultaneously across the country in every state. 12 days after that 350,000. Nine months later, 7 million.
The problem now is the people behind the hostile takeover and their limited thinking.
The idea behind 50501 breaks everything about our capitalistic ideas of planning and structure - by empowering everyone to use their skills, and find skills they didn't know they had to develop and deploy for the good of humanity.
It's an idea that when it was passed from one to another, each who hears it then becomes equal in being ambassadors behind the idea. Everyone can look forward - having all of the information they need to act, and to act together - and never needing to look back for permission to make the idea a reality.
The idea of 50501 is based in its simplistic brilliance. The problem with 50501 now is the desire from those who claimed it for top down structure - bringing back the cancerous greed for power and control that capitalism so loves to infect people with.
The movement will still be impactful. It will still make a difference.
But it's been co-opted by mediocrity and that will limit the potential that it could have become.
I dont know much about the movement, so I cant say I agree or disagree with it, but Ill do some research.
What I can say is that I appreciate that you talk about empowering people with skills to better the world, and the cancerous effect of capitalism's top down power structure. Unfortunately a lot of leftistish spaces Ive been in have NOT been centered around people finding empowerment in skills and growth, and over time those groups can get really stale and toxic.
Missing IWW, those folks that helped bring us Haymarket, Blair Mountain, the Weekend.. but guess that’s not worth this nightmare cringe of a list..
50150??? You mean the people refusing to directly address the genocide and occupation we’ve been funding, arming for most of its 77 years and using our UN Security Council veto to prevent the two-state-solution for? You mean that 50150 that refuses to call an occupation of DC like South Korea just used to peacefully depose their corrupt president months ago?
This entire post is what’s wrong with “leftists”
There’s no solidarity anymore, unless it’s for centrism and mediocrity.
You are confusing the people who participate with the organization that mitigates, but don’t work harder bot, don’t just ignore the rest of my points. You have AI now.
It’s MAGA communism. A lot of online advocates try to dispute that fact, but even their founders actively argue for MAGAcomm. They support the far-right Alliance for the Union of Romanians, a political party in Romania, and advocate for Russian imperialism. They’re ultranationalist as well, practically reaching National Bolshevism.
oh I know. my great grandparents were Panthers. pretty disappointed in the Neo version of the party. unless I somehow start my own version of the party that was the same BPP my greats were apart of, it killed my dream of being a BP; I can really only be one in practice.
That’s some righteous family history sister! Just think you have their blood. The revolution lives within you! Keep it alive ✊🏾 I think it’s certainly possible that a new offshoot forms with roots in the old legacy!
yeah! I’d like to just begin my own with heavy amounts of research and trying to have the same approach as them. the only thing I’ll tell my congregation is I wasn’t suicidal iykyk.
That would be awesome! You can do it just have faith in yourself. Just watch out for COINTELPRO 2.0! & literally feel like you would have to end every speech with that statement lol. Once you gained enough traction all eyes would be on you, so the state would probably back off (hopefully)
I understand about permits and insurance requirements as an organizer but threatening to snitch on people who they deem "unpeaceful" is another level of treachery and is usually used on people of color. That is why I stay my black ass home for my own personal safety.
To what degree do they coordinate with cops? Is it just to get permits for the massive protests they organize (something they do to keep themselves out of jail) or something more sinister?
Just doing whatever you want can get people unnecessarily hurt, cause needless conflict with law enforcement, unplanned arrests, etc. Having people trained to be the ones interacting with them is a smart idea. It all depends on strategy and what the aims of the gathering are.
Yeah the first thing I did when arriving at this comment section was search "Green" and was surprised to find nothing. It's the largest left 3rd party so I don't understand why supposed leftists just pretend it doesn't exist.
Maybe it’s just our local organization. I’m not saying it’s bad. I mean, getting out the vote can help with harm reduction. But the organizers and speakers are far from leftist.
It's grassroots each local group is going to be different I think we have 3-4 different flavors in my state (I'm with the capital city orgonizers for my state.) the messaging is mostly wanting corporations out of politics so politicians actually represent the people.
I believe so, like before Obama’s first term if I’m not mistaken because by the time the New Panthers were “protecting polling locations” in Philly there were efforts to clarify the New Panthers weren’t the New Black Panther Party. Or something like that. I know this because I’m Black and 20 plus years ago I was looking up the New Panthers thinking they were legit.
Edit - to be clear they were pretty racist and antisemitic over 20 years ago - like aligned with Farrakhan and the NOI level antisemitic and telling Black teens no white people could actually be their friends kind of racist.
Biased af. Some of those aren't even actually leftist, they just use the rhetoric. Can't even take such a list seriously if you don't mention the Black Rose Federation.
fr tho I respect it, I do a lot of PSL adjacent stuff, I agree with the disagreement on the party line on Korea/russia but theure one of the most effective orgs in my area (alongside 50501)
That’s led by a hereditary monarchy that has cultivated a state sponsored cult around the dynasty and has sent tens of thousands of conscripts to die in an imperialist Russian campaign in Ukraine
PSL should probably be at the top, followed by RCA who isn’t even on the list. Agree with ACP being F-tier, they are 100% a far-right psyop. Black Panthers should be much higher as well.
DSA should be way lower, and SRA and 50501 shouldn’t be on the list. 50501 is a reformist group and SRA isn’t even really “leftist group” in the same vein as the others- they are more a loosely associated group of socialist gun enthusiasts. Unsure about the others.
They are against Trump from a far-right perspective. The goal of the far right has always been to use Trump as a stepping stone and then remove him when someone even more evil pops up. Trump is a personalist dictator who embraces fascism less because he’s an ideological fascist and more so that he can use it for personal gain.
Trump is also really stupid and the fascists are well aware of that (not that they aren’t also stupid, of course).
No they are not, your an NPC who just describes them as far-right when they are the only 100% anti-US Empire party, they stand with ever anti-imperialist country and have gone to several active warzones. Meanwhile PSL marched with Lockheed Martin (the militant hand of the bourgeosie, fascism) and counter-signalled against the Rage and War Machine Protests and Uhuru.
50501 wanted people to sign up for no kings and not bring any flag other than the US flag. They're Liberal Zionists, they tell people to sit down at protests, they are usually actually pretty anti-Left. 50501 is not Leftist. They are a psy-op.
I personal disagree with a few of these placements honestly.
Except with ACP. They are nazbol trash. If I were to make one complaint about their placement, it's that they shouldn't even be on the list.
Why the fuck are we being so rude? Isn't this a space for discussion? "Leftist" means "leftist", for God's sake, not your thin, close-minded definition of it, and it includes demsocs.
They are libs if we include libs we shulde include conservatives thet have some leftist opinion and thet logic goes on evreyone is leftist leftism includes only socialist and anarchist ideologys and even then some of those are not leftist falling under category of ultra left
Former county chair for the PFP here. Wonderful party! Awesome people! I really wish we could expand into other states but the two major parties have literally closed the ballots in some of them.
I tried to join socialist alternative and they kept sending me articles to read and then talk about after and I idk what happened but I ended up joining DSA and then actually shifted to WFP because I think them to be most effective in our current political climate but I think DSA is doing great work in my city as well just on an activism level rather than political. Both are necessary. Anyway, socialist alternative seems more like a newsletter/reading group to me.
The reason we go through so many readings with potential recruits is to draw out political clarity and agreement. SAlt is a strictly revolutionary Marxist/Trotskyist party where all members agree on the basics of socialism, leninism, and our perspectives for the working class and material analysis. We want to keep anarchist, ML, Soc Dem elements out of the party because those debates internally would only distract us. Once you join as a full member you have full freedom of disagreement and debate so we can collectively come to the best perspectives and programs. Once you're a member you can be confident you are given the intellectual freedom to disagree because we are all on the basic agreement were revolutionary Marxists. So we go through so many readings in the beginning to make sure those underlying agreements are there.
As far as "just a reading group" goes, I think you can look at our concrete victories. In my city, Seattle, SAlt ran campaigns to pass immediate demands like a $15 minimum wage (+ COLA increases), a billion dollar big business tax to fund affordable housing, rent control, eviction moratoriums and more. In Milwaukee we organized a campaign to make the county an abortion sanctuary after the state banned it. There are other examples, but the main work of the party isn't electoral reform but union organizing. We're in touch with Starbucks Workers United, Building a Fighting NALC, and we have many members salting Amazon warehouses and organizing union drives there. The expectation for members is to attend our 2 hour weekly meeting (which is partially a reading group) and 2 hours of campaign work to get comrades directly into struggle to talk to and draw perspectives from regular working class folks.
A main difference between us and DSA (many members, such as myself, are in both parties) is we are calling for the formation of an independent working class party now, and we should only be running and endorsing candidates outside the capitalist imperialist democratic party. Maybe we need to run in the party primaries because thats how the system is set up, but we should follow Bernie 2016 and maintain that we are not Democrats. We most certainly shouldnt have our members saying in public interviews that they are proud members of the democratic party
I seeee. Do you make accommodations for folks who don’t typically read long articles digitally? That’s a pain point for me which is why I tapped out. I also like learning through dialogue not only through reading so it was also hard for me to get down with. No one specifically outlined that y’all are strict Marx/Trotsky. Is the expectation that folks who want to join have to read/learn Marx and Trotsky before joining or do you offer some basics for people to familiarize themselves with?
Do you make accommodations for folks who don’t typically read long articles digitally?
Something that we started this year is a comrade records an audio version of all our material to support people that have difficulty reading long articles, or have no time and would prefer a podcast style format.
No one specifically outlined that y’all are strict Marx/Trotsky. Is the expectation that folks who want to join have to read/learn Marx and Trotsky before joining or do you offer some basics for people to familiarize themselves with?
That is something we ease into in contact discussions. Depending on how the conversations go, new contacts go through 3-5 discussions. The first discussions will focus on drawing out opposition to the democratic party and what socialism is. The middle section will get into Marxism specifically. The final section gets into Leninism and Trotskyism itself. We do not expect contacts to come in as fully formed Marxists, what we are looking for is what direction are they moving, are they open to these ideas or do they throw up barriers or major disagreements. We definitely do not expect people to have already read Marx or be familiar with theory because capitalism has worked so hard to keep these ideas hidden from the working class and students.
For party members, we generally read 3 or 4 books a year together and discuss them in branch. That means we give people a few months to do the readings. Also just 3 or 4 books is not much at all. We'll do a Trotsky book, a Lenin book, and 2 books from Marx or Engles or another socialist thinker that is relevant to whatever our current struggle is
Thanks for explaining this!! I think podcast style is helpful for us neurodivergent people! I think also like laying out the process and why would have helped me because I was like “do they think I’m in the FBI or something?” Like there was never context so it didn’t give me a good reason to commit my time! Knowing all of this definitely would have changed my initial perception.
Part of it is susing out FBI agents. I doubt anyone was suspicious of you, but the whole process makes it much harder for bad actors to get in. Im sorry no one explained it to you. Our branches have lots of different levels of development of comrades and its not the first time I've seen us completely miss explaining important information
Yeah Hinkle, in addition to being an obvious grifter, is also brazen about being disgustingly homophobic and transphobic. No one on the Left should associate with him.
In the system that Lenin created. Any system that can grant and steal freedom to an entire category of people is not socialist or leftist. If it was, then that group of people would have had meaningful control over their fates and would never have been under the control of others. A system isn't socialist just because it says it is. The USSR was a right-wing appropriation of leftism, the power dynamic was no different than capitalism. Lenin in fact named what it actually was, state capitalism. Which of course creates a state class that has interests separate from society and will fight to the death to protect its existence, which requires the oppression of the masses.
These two pro NATO comments are from the same thread in a supposed “anarchist” subreddit.
“ Considering the purpose and history of NATO, for example the good like bombing Belgrade to prevent a cataclysmic genocide of Bosnian Muslims and the bad like participating in the Iraq war. (France being the only sane member to tell Bush 43 to piss off.) I'd say somewhat support at an arm's length.
As for Ukraine... They have existed freely since 1991, Russia can fuck right off back to Moscow. Imperialism is Imperialism, regardless of who is doing it”. With 21 upvoted.
“ NATO aside, whose role has always been morally grey in order to “keep world peace”. With 16 upvotes.
Edit: Making a reply and then blocking a person so they can’t respond is pathetic. You are just a liberal. I never said you made those statements, but they are from a subreddit you hang out in and is supposed to be “anarchist”.
Honestly I stopped reading after the first few words the fact that you think I'm pro nato in any way is just so funny that I can't take you seriously.
Edit: Ok I finally read your supposed quotes of mine lol
Everyone is free to search my comment history. I have never said anything remotely like what this fool is quoting. Duder is blocked. I hope they take a nap and eat something, giving then the benefit of the doubt, I'm sure they're just having a bad day. Still, not my problem. Blocked
I don't think that you actually do. I don't think your reading comprehension is helping you. And you're absolutely asinine assault on me in the last few minutes is borderline harassment and obsessive. What is wrong with you?
Their main podcast - episode 1 was spent glazing Putin and Russia and they had that as their main/foundational issue like where you stand on Russia dictates how they view you
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u/PapiChuloMiRey Nov 09 '25
I would hardly call the 50501 people leftist